Re: [Tonto] Base jumping accident, AZ

[testpilot 0]

Tonto,
Whats the story with not putting the site name?

Dave
D830
http://www.skydiving.co.za

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Tonto,
Whats the story with not putting the site name?

It's called BASE ethics.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[jumpwally 0]

or the TV/Radio folks do a good job of blabbing it out.....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Remster 24]

Then you can get the site name from these sources.

But on here (dropzone.com in general, not just this forum), we wont let site names stay on posts, so dont name sites.

Remster

[chuckbrown 0]

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Then you can get the site name from these sources.

But on here (dropzone.com in general, not just this forum), we wont let site names stay on posts, so dont name sites.

Which is pretty silly. I understand the rationale of DZ.com not being the initial source of a site name, but when it's already been divulged, editing a site name out of a secondary source doesn't make much sense.

[pope 0]

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Then you can get the site name from these sources.

But on here (dropzone.com in general, not just this forum), we wont let site names stay on posts, so dont name sites.

Which is pretty silly. I understand the rationale of DZ.com not being the initial source of a site name, but when it's already been divulged, editing a site name out of a secondary source doesn't make much sense.

The less people that know it, the less of a chance there is for some idiot to go try their first BASE jump there and kill themselves there, fucking things up for EVERYBODY, especially themselves.
Doesn't seem silly to me at all.

example from The World BASE Fatality List:
#51 Christopher Kennedy, December 2,1997
Age: 35
Antenna Jump
Tucson, Arizona USA
Impact
Christopher is dead when his feet leave the tower is what other jumpers said after this fatality. Using a skydiving rig not modified for BASE, and without any prior BASE training or experience, he climbed 364-feet up a 450-foot tower and jumped only to find his bungee controlled collapsible pilot chute didn't work well at slow airspeeds. A passer-by found Kennedy's body near the tower the next morning. He had pulled his reserve handle at some point prior to impact. Alcohol may have been a contributing factor in this fatality.

[Remster 24]

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Which is pretty silly

Where do you think the media comes 1st for info? Old newspaper clippings and the odd news site with archives, or a BASE /skydiving site?

Remster

[chuckbrown 0]

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Which is pretty silly

Where do you think the media comes 1st for info? Old newspaper clippings and the odd news site with archives, or a BASE /skydiving site?

I think I made it pretty clear that the rule against initial disclosure of sites on DZ.com is a good one for exactly the reason you made (and for reasons of BASE ethics). My point is that deleting a reference to a site in an outside media source is somewhat shallow if the link to the story is included, and the name of the site can be accessed by a mouse click to the outside media source. Its style over substance and doesn't accomplish the intended result. If DZ.com wants to prevent this site from being used to desseminate site names, don't allow people to post the URLs of outside sources which name sites.

Edited for tardness.

[hookitt 0]

These posts about naming sites have nothing to do with the injured jumper... and here's another post that has nothing to do with the injured jumper.

Let it go folks. Leave the names out. The media knows about it if it's already in the media, don't ya think? It has nothing to do with the media.

If some new BASE jumper or wannabe BASE jumper looks on a BASE information site and sees the name of a site, do you think he's going to look for it?

Will he find the right one? Will he find his way on it? Will he jump within his boundaries? Will he dayblaze it? Will he jump it and kill himself? Will he get caught? ...etc..ect.

About naming sites. It's like this. You don't know until you know. If you're not a BASE jumper, chances are you don't know why I don't want you openly naming a place I may be jumping. Some of your friends have no Idea why you skydive. For that same reason, we would prefer that you don't spread the word about some objects in case someone else finds it ... or thinks he finds it and does what Pope said a couple posts up.

That's only one example. Another jumper found out the hard way he was on the wrong bridge. It was named, and a newbie jumper found it... jumped it smacked the sand before he had a flying canopy.

If he would have jumped the correct bridge chances are, nobody would have been the wiser.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[EBSB52 0]

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Then you can get the site name from these sources.

But on here (dropzone.com in general, not just this forum), we wont let site names stay on posts, so dont name sites.

Which is pretty silly. I understand the rationale of DZ.com not being the initial source of a site name, but when it's already been divulged, editing a site name out of a secondary source doesn't make much sense.

The less people that know it, the less of a chance there is for some idiot to go try their first BASE jump there and kill themselves there, fucking things up for EVERYBODY, especially themselves.
Doesn't seem silly to me at all.

example from The World BASE Fatality List:
#51 Christopher Kennedy, December 2,1997
Age: 35
Antenna Jump
Tucson, Arizona USA
Impact
Christopher is dead when his feet leave the tower is what other jumpers said after this fatality. Using a skydiving rig not modified for BASE, and without any prior BASE training or experience, he climbed 364-feet up a 450-foot tower and jumped only to find his bungee controlled collapsible pilot chute didn't work well at slow airspeeds. A passer-by found Kennedy's body near the tower the next morning. He had pulled his reserve handle at some point prior to impact. Alcohol may have been a contributing factor in this fatality.

I understand that we shouldn't post the site, but jackasses that downsize to a loading of 1.6+ and do hook turns at 78 jumps, or those who base jump at 0 skydives or with very few are going to do it regardless of info/advice. There was that guy in Russia who used his skydiving rig and I think there may have been booze involved - been a while since I read it. Info is for people who want to learn and who want to be careful - ignorance is for people who make for good reading.

[EBSB52 0]

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Which is pretty silly

Where do you think the media comes 1st for info? Old newspaper clippings and the odd news site with archives, or a BASE /skydiving site?

I think I made it pretty clear that the rule against initial disclosure of sites on DZ.com is a good one for exactly the reason you made (and for reasons of BASE ethics). My point is that deleting a reference to a site in an outside media source is somewhat shallow if the link to the story is included, and the name of the site can be accessed by a mouse click to the outside media source. Its style over substance and doesn't accomplish the intended result. If DZ.com wants to prevent this site from being used to desseminate site names, don't allow people to post the URLs of outside sources which name sites.

Edited for tardness.

I totally agree, but it's easier to omit it to keep the witchhunt away. Geez, I was trying to post immediate info from something that occurred in my backyard, but I was persecuted.

[EBSB52 0]

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These posts about naming sites have nothing to do with the injured jumper... and here's another post that has nothing to do with the injured jumper.

Let it go folks. Leave the names out. The media knows about it if it's already in the media, don't ya think? It has nothing to do with the media.

If some new BASE jumper or wannabe BASE jumper looks on a BASE information site and sees the name of a site, do you think he's going to look for it?

Will he find the right one? Will he find his way on it? Will he jump within his boundaries? Will he dayblaze it? Will he jump it and kill himself? Will he get caught? ...etc..ect.

About naming sites. It's like this. You don't know until you know. If you're not a BASE jumper, chances are you don't know why I don't want you openly naming a place I may be jumping. Some of your friends have no Idea why you skydive. For that same reason, we would prefer that you don't spread the word about some objects in case someone else finds it ... or thinks he finds it and does what Pope said a couple posts up.

That's only one example. Another jumper found out the hard way he was on the wrong bridge. It was named, and a newbie jumper found it... jumped it smacked the sand before he had a flying canopy.

If he would have jumped the correct bridge chances are, nobody would have been the wiser.

Please, this thread isn't about the incident, it's about how we shouldn't name the site - pls stay on topic. J/K

[TVPB 0]

Chuck

Here is a simple reason for the exclusion philosophy in the BASE community r.e. site naming.

The person who is least likely to undergo further research to gather more information and prepare him/herself better for BASE jumping, may also be too lazy to open up the link that you refer to. Therefore, if you exclude the name from your post, you reduce the likelihood of a person going to said site.

Enter the Good Samaritan ethos of "If I can only save one person, then it is all worth it". Or for the BASE community "if I can reduce the likelihood of even one accident occuring at XY location, then it is worth it".

Argue semantics all you like. There are people on the BASE fatality list that DID read about a location and went there to die. There have been MANY close calls that you don't know about.

Why should we increase the exposure of a site and people to it. IT is better that only 100 people know as opposed to 200 people.

etc

etc

etc.

And it is BASE Ethics.

p.s. IF people REALLY want to find places to jump off, there are millions of pieces of information on the net that will help them get there. One of the characteristics that a good isntructor will promote in a BASE student, is initiative and the willingness to actually put some effort into there training. The fact that they are willing to put effort in means. . . . . . . they are willing to put effort in. Obviously!!!!

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[TomAiello 25]

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The person who is least likely to undergo further research to gather more information and prepare him/herself better for BASE jumping, may also be too lazy to open up the link that you refer to./reply]
Also, many news links either (a) expire, or (b) require registration. Since this forum does neither, it is easier to access information transcribed here.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com