Don't Give up the Ship, Boys . . .

[littlestranger 0]

You know why medicare pays for viagra for 80 year old men? Because the AARP is organized and that organization makes them powerful.

Want BASE to be legal? Get fucking organized. I've read this entire thread and not once were the efforts of the ABP mentioned.

What pisses me off about NPS policy is that it's blatantly discriminatory and arbitrary as hell, our parks are a public good, and it's the governments job to make sure that every American has equal access to them.

Sure, there are alot of BASE jumpers that worry that legal sites will force them to compromise on the illegal ones, but put it in perspective...is the prospect of legally jumping el Capitan gonna keep you from jumping that sweet antenna in your hometown, hell no.

Let's get organized people...I wanna jump that bitch.

http://www.backcountryparachutists.org/step1.php

[gweeks 1]

Man, that was too easy. Two minutes and I faxed three letters to my local representatives! Pretty cool.

Everyone should do it. Tell your friends:

http://www.backcountryparachutists.org/step1.php

(Should this be stickied for a while?)

[base428 1]

I think you'll find an official welcome announcement from the ABP very, very soon. A short story on the ABP is out in Skydiving Mag this month. The ABP has a very dedicated staff and now is the time to put 110% into expanding our access in National Parks.

With that being said, I don't think anyone will be "giving up the ship", especially since we're not even on the ship to begin with. Expanding legal sites will only help our sport. Hardcore bandit jumpers can always do their thing, but the majority enjoys jumping legal sites and we follow the minimal rules that are in place to preserve the site. If an illegal site is made legal with a few rules in place, is that not a good thing?

Anyone who is against legal sites/events and their minimal rules should be sure to avoid Kjerag, the Hole, the Swiss Valley, the Italian terminal wall, Malaysian building jumps, Mexican canyons, Bridge Day, the Go Fast Games, the Potato Bridge, and the list goes on. All these locations have a few rules in place. I can't understand why anyone would object to "not jumping from the rail" or "not jumping a Stiletto 120". The few rules we have are in place so that we can continue to jump responsibly for many years to come.

Keep in mind that I'm a BASE jumper as well. For the record, I don't like rules any more than the next guy. Actually, I probably hate rules more than most of you (I don't even give out my zip code to Radio Shack!).

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[markamodeo 0]

ABP Silver Member #1

Looking forward to the day I can legally flick the big ones in the valley. Or the smaller ones on the big lake.
That day will come. Won't be any less sweet to me just cos I won't be risking arrest. Actually think it'll taste sweeter. Thanks to those working so hard.

Sabre 210 - the hard-on visuals will make it difficult for me to sleep for weeks.

Peace,
539.

[JaapSuter 0]

Being Devil's advocate here for a second, what will the ABP's stance be on gear choices for National Parks? I imagine it will be something like: "Jump base specific gear, skydiving gear is not allowed."

However, what does that mean for the homebrew base manufacturer that has come up with a new invention he wants to try on a slider up jump?

I hope we can come up with a peer reviewed common-sense system where existing ABP members can vouch for other people's skills. This would include the trust that such a new invention would have been taken from easier objects and for skydives first.

What I'd really hate to see is a situation where a rigger has to take his rig for at least X skydives and at least Y jumps off the Potato bridge, that he needs to log all these jumps with ABP approval and that he needs to document a broad scale of weight- and strength-tests.

Hopefully my previous posts in this thread managed to express my support for having local rules. However, Nick's point about being able to have an idea in the morning, do some rigging in the afternoon, and then test-jumping at night is a great thing in our sport. Gear improvements may have slowed down a little the last few years, the last thing we need is a bureaucratic obstacle for the few enthusiastic basement riggers remaining.

[base428 1]

You'll have to ask Executive Director, Gardner Sapp, on that one. Perhaps gear choices could be covered in depth when the official ABP announcement is made. But I don't know why anyone would have any problems with a manufacturer testing new gear or disallowing the use of skydiving gear.

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.... what will the ABP's stance be on gear choices for National Parks?

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[JaapSuter 0]

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.... what will the ABP's stance be on gear choices for National Parks?

I just received an email from an ABP member explaining that the ABP strives for a jumping model similar to what the climbing community uses. In short it means the ABP is about access only and not involved with gear. Among other things this has to do with liability issues that appear as soon as any sort of governing body starts regulating gear.

Hopefully said person will join us here and elaborate on my post and correct me where I am wrong.

Thanks,

Jaap Suter

[sabre210 0]

Jason and friends.

I respect everything you're trying to achieve: You know I do. The freedom to jump from your National parks' cliffs is a hugely important right, as important as the freedom to climb them or even look at them. My only point being, it's so important that, legal or not, we should be exercising it regardless.

I hope when legal access is gained, it will be on terms which are more inclusive than exclusive. In otherwords, i hope you get to dine at the King's table and not be expected to scrabble for crumbs on the floor.

Mark A. - next time you place your nose upto the glass and inhale the bouquet, and you get fruit and nuts and "wood"....... think of me

PS. ABP bronze member......and i don't even live in your friccccing country. Good luck guys and gals.

[base695 0]

I think Nick is right and it is best summed up by the Godfather:

"There's only one rule - there are no rules"
Pete Fielding

[GaryP 0]

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"There's only one rule - there are no rules"
Pete Fielding

I couldn't agree more. Ethics yes - Rules no way.

BASE has been a sanctuary from rules for me for nearly two decades now and it will remain that way. If someone has a pet project for changing laws and attitudes in their region then that's fine by me. I truly admire that kind of pro-action and wish them all the best and I think that it's pretty wrong for someone to intentionally try and undermine that attempt BUT there is a difference between an intentional and malicious action & someone just going about their jumping business as normal.

As sabre210 mentioned you'll never get 100% of BASErs worldwide on side in any given subject and to think that ppl should change their ways just to suit someone's agenda is just plain ignorant and unrealistic. You don't need to be a MENSA member to know that bandit jumping will always continue. If one does not take this into account as factual when planning their project then they are wasting a valuable opportunity to put forward something workable.

It's best to acknowledge this fact and take it into account when lobbying the relevant Govt. bodies rather than blasting people for just doing what they've always been doing. As stated by me elsewhere - as long as someone acts in a way that's not slanderous, site-burning, misrepresentative (a lie), or malicious then it's fine by me - my ethics so to speak.

g.

"Altitude is birthright to any individual who seeks it"

.

[YISkyDive 0]

Hey guys-

I rarely post in the BASE forum.. (for obvious reasons) but in my own right I personally like the sport of BASE a lot. I know a few BASE jumpers, and at one point I, myself, would enjoy getting into the sport...

but currently my biggest hold back from entering the sport (minus jump number, but i'm not worried about that, because i am going to have [hopefully] 500 by this thanksgiving) is not the risk, but the penalties of illegal activites. Jail, fines, fellony on record could ruin my ability to get a job in the feilds i am looking at getting into. I do not plan on jumping for 2 years (personal maturity thing.. ) but when i do, i do not want to develop a criminal record in the process.

I really think that as a whole, a community, leaders should emerge and develope regulation that wouldnt be out of the norm of sensibilty. It happens all the time.. if you take a first timer to Utah.. then obviosully people will speak. If you jump the bridge with skydiving gear (attempt too) people will speak.

A USPA style regulation would be EXTREMELY wrong in this sport of will and pure love of freedom, but to lagetimize the sport we need to develope basic platforms and help the community as a whole. A standard operating platform would not be bad for the sport.. It just needs to be headed by people that understand why BASE was and still exsists. And look past providing the indusrty with profits, DZs with more cash flow, and providing more intrsuctors more money..

I think that legal base is extremely important, because as the number of people getting caught rises so will stricter punishments. As it is, if your a college kid and get caught.. kiss the ability of being a teacher, a law enforcement offficer, or FBI good bye with the trespassing felony.

This is just an opinion, and understand its just that. I have never felt the freedom of jumping off of a fixed object, but one day, when everything is mentally, morrally, and personally right.. I intend too... but hopefully not at the cost of my future. I want to enjoy the sport freely, and legally, because thats what all other athletes get to do.. why should we not be able to earn that right.


-dave.

[TomAiello 25]

There are hundreds of legal options to experience the sport,so you can find out if you want to participate at a deeper level. Bridge Day, Twin Falls, Lysebotn...the list goes on, but those are the top three.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Tyrion 0]

Dude.... You perfectly summed up my opinion, couldn't have said it better.

[JohnnyUtah 0]

Yes! Thanks TB, for articulating those two points so well.

Have Fun, Don't Die!
Johnny Utah
My Website
email:[email protected]

[78RATS 0]

Quote

Get fucking organized

no need to curse. GEEZ.

Rat for Life - Fly till I die
When them stupid ass bitches ask why

[TVPB 0]

Hi Jaap

Peer review would be wonderful, but. . . . . .

There are some intruders in the common sense gene pool.

Beaurocracy will quickly follow numerous "stupid" mistakes. We need to minimise the stupid mistakes somehow. Unfortunately, there are some people who are downright stupid. Most people are sensible.

Test jumping something totally new off an access sensitive site is just plain stupid & lazy. It should not even be a rule. It falls under common sense.

Test jumping new gear first up on a BASE jump is not test jumping either. Its a stunt jump. A test jump by definition involves systematic aquisition of meaningful data derived from a controlled experimental situation. It is NOT a single jump followed by "Woohoo, that worked!".

That's just my opinion.

p.s. I was in your part of the world 6 months ago. What an awesome place. I'll be back.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[JaapSuter 0]

Thanks Tom!

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Test jumping something totally new off an access sensitive site is just plain stupid & lazy. It should not even be a rule. It falls under common sense.

Yes, we absolutely agree here.

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Test jumping new gear first up on a BASE jump is not test jumping either. Its a stunt jump. A test jump by definition involves systematic aquisition of meaningful data derived from a controlled experimental situation. It is NOT a single jump followed by "Woohoo, that worked!".

I totally agree, and would always recommend common sense, science, skydives and jumps from easier and legal objects to be a riggers guide.

But there are different degrees of inventions, and some require more research then others. Imagine the scenario that somebody invents a new PC pouch for wingsuit purposes that will remove all worries about burbles and PC hesitations.

This person rigs it up in his basement and uses it succesfully on thirty skydives. He even uses it on his local terminal antenna a couple of times. Unfortunately he lives in North America and his only chance of testing it from a terminal cliff is by visiting a national park.

Preferably we can vouch for the quality of such an invention through a person's references and his explanation. I would imagine that even the newest rigger would at least have made some connections in the base community before using his sewing machine.

What I would hate to see is a governing body that wants full legalized documentation of his invention and logs of his testing approach before he is allowed to take this thing off a cliff. Such a requirement would instantly slow down the evolution of gear which, especially in the area of wingsuiting, is still running at high velocity.

From my discussions with ABP members I learned they have no desire to become or install such a governing body. They only want to gain access. Beyond that, common sense should be our guide the same way it works in the climbing scene. And as you explain yourself, if somebody wants to take a radically new invention off a cliff for its first test, it is no longer a base jump but really more of a stunt. It falls outside our domain.

The same thing goes for somebody doing his first cliff jump without preparation, e.g. insufficient skydives and no jumps from more forgiving objects. It would fall outside our domain and we can only try and avoid these kind of incidents through education and dissemination of our history.

Unfortunately, the NPS might not be so understanding when it comes to incidents related to use of improper gear or insufficient preparation. The climbing community has set precedents in our favour though. On several occasions ill-prepared climbers have needed costly rescue operations. Some of these groups were fined for recklesness and generally considered far from representative for the climbing community.

One member of the ABP has mentioned that we have a lot more in common with the climbing community than with the USPA and FAA controlled sport of skydiving. I couldn't agree more. While our physical preparation might come from our skydives, the base community could learn a lot from the ethics and guidelines that climbers live by. The second we venture into the backcountry we need to realize that we have left the dropzone. We enter hostile territory that we share with nature as well as with other people who also want to enjoy its beauty.

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p.s. I was in your part of the world 6 months ago. What an awesome place. I'll be back.

You mean British Columbia right? I was born in the Netherlands which is great too, but not nearly as good as where I live these days. I still need to pinch myself when I wake up every morning. I am very grateful I'm able to live here.

Definitely drop me a note when you're visiting again. Although that goes for any visitor who reads this. It's always a pleasure to show off our beautiful city and its surroundings.

[TVPB 0]

Yep - I hate excessive rules too. But there will always be stupid people who create controversy and there will always be beaurocracts who want to outlaw activities that they consider inappropriate. The result is often banning. There must be a way of keeping the stupid people out of sight of those beaurocrats. Perhaps the steal & bury" technique?? Just joking.

r.e. the testing of advancing technologies and techniques, its ironic that you mention wingsuits. My avatar picture fully backs your philosophy of allowing people to develop equipment and then test it. I built that suit before Birdman existed and my colleague in the photo was paving the way in BASE skysurfing. Seems that you have LOTS in common with that photo. We both tested from a plane first. Everyone has this option. There are many very intelligent people in this sport (not me ). It is great when they contribute in the various areas:
- technique
- equipment
- access
- promotion
- site research
- etc

Yes, British Columbia & Alberta. MAGNIFICENT. Even just a drive up the Icefields parkway would pump adrenalin through the veins of ANY human being.

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.