Best way to get off a wall

[Maxim 0]

Heya,

Just was thinking tonight. iv seen a few video's of object strikes where the people involved end up either just sliding down the wall to impact, or the canopy collapsing.

So the question is. if you find yourself against a wall with a bit of altitude what is the best way to get yourself off the wall?

Thanks

Life is Great. Even Greater what we do with it.

[JaapSuter 0]

Hi Maxim,

that's a great question since object-strike (this applies to buildings and other things too) is still the number one cause of fatalities in our sport.

If you do a search on these forums for "wall strike", "rear riser turns" or related items, you'll find a ton of great information.

For example, this post by Tom quoting a post by Dwain.

This one and this one ain't bad either.

Don't hesitate to ask more specific questions in this thread though. Searching the archives is a great tool, but sometimes new threads about old topics can bring out new information or experiences.

Regards,

Jaap Suter

[tommyh 0]

If you smack a wall, and become stuck, I don't think there is any one best way to get down, other than waiting for search and rescue. If you are the more self reliant type, you really have two choices: Do a tard or other unpacked jump; or climb to safety. If you decide to climb up, you can always pack and jump again. That sounds like fun...

[DexterBase 0]

I would have to agree. A TARD or rollover could get you down, that is, if you're not too injured to attemp one.

Likely, the best option will be to wait for rescue.

(Tommy, do you have a number I can reach you at? I want to do some more jumps with you.)

[TomAiello 25]

I think it's going to depend quite a bit on the shape of the wall and the wind conditions.

I'm assuming that we're talking about the situation where the nose is pinned against the wall, but you are still under a (mostly) inflated canopy, which is sliding down the wall. Not the situation that either previous poster has discussed (namely an imminent strike that you are trying to avoid and a hang up).

If you have a vertical wall, and lots of space under you, you may find that risers work best. But if the wall is underhung, or there is a wind pushing you into the wall, I'm guessing you're going to find toggles a better option. I once escaped this situation (nose into an underhung object) by using toggles--after trying unsuccessfully to use risers to bring the canopy around. What I found was that the riser turn was trying to spin the whole canopy around flat (brakes were still stowed) and that just kept the nose pinned against the object. When I popped the toggles, I was able to deflect one side of the canopy further down, which changed the angle at which the canopy was meeting the wall, essentially allowing the top skin (which previously had just bunched up aft of the nose) to dip down and slide across the surface of the object to make the turn.

Note that my thoughts on this are pretty preliminary because (a) I've only been in this situation for real once, and (b) it happened at night, I struck the object twice in the downward direction during the correction, and (c) things were happening pretty fast. What I can say for certain is that a serious attempt at riser correction was unsuccessful, and a toggle turn got me off the object.

Take it with some salt. I can't think of a way to test this safely, and I think it's going to work different for every set of object topography and wind conditions.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[460 0]

beware about the rollover. the canopy may be much more damaged than you think.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[BASE813 0]

I have only ever "first hand" witnessed one cliff strike from a gnarly 340ft slightly under hanging wall, the guy I witnessed flew and fought his way down through a few hits, but he ended up walking away from it. The only way he was able to walk away is that he had knowledge of his canopy and how to fly it and he NEVER gave up............... (oh and a bit of pure fucking luck - hehe)

to me this is the most important advice - NEVER give up and try and fly it out even when all looks bleak.........

[DexterBase 0]

Then that would have to apply to the TARD as well. Rollovers pressurize very slowly compared to a freefall deployment.

More importantly I believe, the pressurization is very steady compared to shockloading the canopy with a TARD.

[NickDG 23]

I'm not a climber, but I think people who jump a lot of cliffs should carry something they can use to secure their position if they get hung up. Maybe a "nut" type thing that can be jammed in a crack or ?.

Jumping towers I'd always carry a carabineer in case I flew back into it, injured myself, and needed to "hook in."

I'm thinking of #40 Terry Forrestal, who I believe fell asleep or passed out, waiting for rescue and then fell off the ledge he was on.

NickD BASE 194

[DexterBase 0]

Hey Tom, I think we ought to split these threads because they're clearly two seperate discussions and I'd hate to see one smother the other.

They're both worthy of being explored more thoroughly.

[lifewithoutanet 0]

Quote

I'm not a climber, but I think people who jump a lot of cliffs should carry something they can use to secure their position if they get hung up. Maybe a "nut" type thing that can be jammed in a crack or ?.

Jumping towers I'd always carry a carabineer in case I flew back into it, injured myself, and needed to "hook in."

I keep a few extra carabiners and daisy-chains (sewn, like this) with my gear and have taken them up towers to clip in for a rest or safety if climbing with a cable-ascender.

As for nuts, they're good passive devices for protection and a pretty damn simple concept, even for someone who's never used one. As you can see here (this is for a set, to show the range in sizes), they come in a variety of sizes and therein could lie a problem. When climbing, even a route with good beta, we'll often carry a full set of these. I don't see the necessity in really carrying a few of them along. If you do, and what you have doesn't fit you can always stack them, but now we've added complexity and might be going overboard (just like this post).

Thing is, stoppers (nuts) are designed to hold a significant amount of impact force. Even the Black Diamond Micro Stoppers (smallest of which is about the size of a pinky fingernail) is designed to hold 2-8 kN when properly placed. Impact force isn't what we'd be looking for, so you might be well off enough improvising an anchor with a knotted sling, daisy chain accessory cord or, hell...dacron line...slotted into whatever cracks you can find and secured to your container. Sure it's a stretch, but stuck in that situation, I'll try anything. And I have used a system of knots at a belay station before...just not to sustain impact force.

-C.

[MWGemini 0]

Take my post with a grain of salt, as you can see I'm a very inexperienced jumper, and have a long way to go before I start BASE.

That being said, I've done some climbing in the past (although not much outdoor), and am somewhat familiar with the equipment. I imagine it would be possible to carry a fanny pack with some emergency equipment for a situation like the one you describe. A few nuts or cams (cams would probably be better because of a larger range, but are heavier and bulkier), a few carabiners, and a length of cord should be sufficient.

Regular climbing rope would probably not be needed, if you are just trying to anchor yourself to the wall to await rescue. A twenty foot length of 5mm cord would probably be enough. Throw in a space blanket and a few powerbars, and you should be ok, provided your injuries are not imminently life threatening.

On the other hand, if you are looking to completely self rescue after being stranded halfway up a cliff face, you will need more equipment, much more skill, and it is definitely not something you want to do after you've been seriously injured, since you'll probably just end up killing yourself. I imagine in that situation you'd be dead before rescue arrives, though, so it might be worth the risk.

All the previous is in the event of a wall strike on an E.. For other objects, namely A and B, different equipment would be needed. I think getting hung up on a B is pretty unlikely, but I've read numerous stories of people getting hung on guy wires off an A. TO self rescue from that, you could probably get away with a few prussiks wrapped around the guy wire, so again, some relatively thin cord and a few carabiners, and you should be able to self rescue with the right training.

Mike

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

...you could probably get away with a few prussiks wrapped around the guy wire...

I've never had good luck making a prussik work on a steel cable.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[MWGemini 0]

Yeah, I wasn't sure of that, hence the disclaimer. I'm not sure what would be a better method. I'm sure that a specialized rigid cable descender exists (as opposed to climbing descenders that require the rope to be passed through pulleys), but I don't have any experience with them.

Mike

[toni 0]

Hello Tom

There is a special knot, which were used in the old days by cable car workers and rescuers "prussik-like" on steel cables. I can try to describe if you need it.

[hookitt 0]

I'm not Tom but Tim is fairly close... Please describe the prussik-like knot for the rest of us :)

Thanks!

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Maxim 0]

Yeah the question was ment to mean if you have hit the object and sliding down it. not stuck on the object, but all good reading anyway.

Im still only jumping antenna's. no cliffs or buildings yet. so bad as im a high rise window cleaner and being on the top of a building every day. and not being able to jump them haha.

Life is Great. Even Greater what we do with it.

[Mikki_ZH 0]

Prusik:
The page is in German but it is self explaining:
http://www.stichel-frei.de/sicherung/knoten/prusik.shtml

If somenone throws you down a rope you can climb up or down the rope with this knot if you have two smaller ropes of maybe each 2 meters (aprox. 6.56167979003 feet... :-))

Cheers

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[tommyh 0]

Hey chad, I sent you an e-mail.

[toni 0]

Hello Tim,

There is the know I talked about.

I hope the picture is a bit self-explaining because my english sucks too much to get that explained.

Just make as much "turns" as you need. This may even be 2 or 3 feet long. To move the thing you have to pull with the hand only the topmost sling and pull the rest of the "knot" around.

Looks easy, but badly used it can ruin your day ;-)).