Flik mesh or Backjack

[Atmodude 0]

HELLO,

I need a new canopy and had always jumped Mojo.

I would like to purchase a Vented canopy, now i'm hesitating between a Blackjack or a Flik, are they the same for performance, any feedbacks ?

Can a Blackjack 240 or Flik240 have more weight then a Mojo 240 ?

thnkx !

[BASE813 0]

hey dude - is that because of the opening you had on the fucking cool 2-way vid I have just seen?!

Very nice work my man!

[TomAiello 25]

In my opinion either will work just fine.

Personally, I'd probably opt for the Blackjack because I think the slider down openings are better (i.e. quicker and cleaner).

I don't think either one will be a bad choice, though.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[SabreDave 0]

Troll, Troll, Troll..........................no not you.........the canopy!!:)

Trolls are nice, have you looked into them? Maybe they are even available with the centre cell vent now?!?! Not sure but it sounded interesting the little I have heard about it.
My Troll 290 MDV has so far been great on the lower stuff I have done.

SabreDave

[726 0]

Hi dude !
I recive your cool video now! very nice !
... Flik is very nice canopy ask at police !!!
...You can to test my canopy ! when I don't know....
#726

[Skydawg 0]

Have you considered a Rock Dragon?

[baseclimb 0]

My experience on BJ and Flick: (Both 266 range)

BJ (zp composite) +- 160-180 jumps
1. I regularly take it 4sec SD, no probs.
2. Faster flying, and bigger controll range. If I jump very technical/compact landing, I keep my brakes stowed, and hance have a very slow and controlable canopy.
3. SU heading issue. Read Adam's post on the controll line changes they made.
4. No multi.
5. Few back surges on opening, which caught me on static lines, when I had to do a quick turn while you are in a semi back surge / stall. (Also addressed as per point 3)
6. ZP composite requires 'little' more concentration on packing.

Flick (VTECK, Multi) +- 60-70 jumps
1. I am scared to take it to 3secs SD, for it punishes me. Hence 2secs is my cutoff on Flick. Wheter this relates to higher opening, I don't know. Have no video, but surely feels like it. Loads of 500ft SU with small mesh, when I do the same with BJ SD.
2. Slower, less controll range than BJ, and being used to BJ, this has bite me once/twice, reaching the stall point quicker. However, just as BJ has made line changes, the Flick is now standard with 4 lines. (Don't quote me.)
3. Very good heading SU.
4. Multi. See all previous posts on multi. It makes sense to me, and which my BJ had one.
5. Done no SL jumps.
6. Easy packing.

Packecd and jumped both, my heading performance has been very much the same on both.
Note: 20 jumps in Valey with 4 180's on BJ, before I had my flick. Loads off room for discussion/flaming.

My choice? If most/all of my jumps is not so tight, I will buy a BJ again. (Might be sentimental....)

No info on loading VS mojo.

[ove 0]

What about terminal expirience?

Small mesh slider, open mesh?

Troll MDV on terminals?

Ove

Do, or do not. There is no try.

[TomAiello 25]

I've got plenty of terminal jumps on the Troll MDV. I think it's quite good for that. Consistent, good openings, but no slammers.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[baseclimb 0]

I don't have a lot of Terminal experience, appart from 9-11 sec range in the valey.

My experience is the following:
BJ:
1. Very hard openings with SU and long delays. (6-11 secs)
2. 2 wraps on indirect control
3. Single wrap on direct slider control. (Stugle to get a proper bite.)
4. Large mesh.
5. Rolling the outer 3 nose cells tight to center with center nose cell over the pack job.

Flick:
1. Softer openings on longer delays. ( 6-11, One up to 21 secs)
2. 1 wrap on indirect control
3. Single wrap on direct slider control. (The bite on the slider is very good and proper, unlike the BJ.)
4. Small mesh.
5. Rolling the outer 3 nose cells tight to center with center nose cell over the pack job.

I also found that the Flick eats bungies when you do a 2 wrap on indirect control, where use 2 wraps constantly on my BJ.

What is strange, is that BJ is less hard on SD, but a lot harder on SU, and the Flick is hard on SD and softer on SU. This might have to do with the mesh sizes, and direct/indirect control as explained in my setup, however, I am not sure this is the full story. I personally lack knowledge to explain my findings.

Hope this helps.

[gus 1]

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Troll MDV on terminals?

I just did my first terminal jumps (12 - 15 sec delays) on my 265 MDV. First jump with about 6 rolls in the nose really suprised me with how soft the opening was. Second jump with 3 rolls was definately quicker but still quite comfortable. Not a massive sample to draw conclusions from but I was very happy.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[BASE813 0]

hey gus................. glad you had fun out there............... I just PM'd Tom A about it too, but what PC, direct / indirect contol did you use?

I only ask as Lord T used my MDV on Italy and switz (both WS and normal FF) and he said he had "hard openings" as opposed to using his non-vented troll.

(if you know Lord T you will know he is a big strong lad that does not moan about a supposed hard opening)

[Faber 0]

did you try the BJ whith fine hole mesh??
looks like you only used the Flik whith fine mesh and BJ whith large mesh,you cant compare then(after my oppinion)

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[gus 1]

No direct control. 2 wraps on the indirect. 36 inch zp pc, non-vented. Large mesh slider. Very scared. Good ground rush. Good coffee. Hot chicks in the café. Muchos BASE.

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I only ask as Lord T used my MDV on Italy and switz (both WS and normal FF) and he said he had "hard openings" as opposed to using his non-vented troll.

Fair point, I've never jumped anything else so no basis for comparison.

I wonder what difference each individual's terminal velocity makes? I'm pretty floaty in a track.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[BASE813 0]

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No direct control. 2 wraps on the indirect. 36 inch zp pc, non-vented. Large mesh slider. Very scared. Good ground rush. Good coffee. Hot chicks in the café. Muchos BASE.

Quote

I only ask as Lord T used my MDV on Italy and switz (both WS and normal FF) and he said he had "hard openings" as opposed to using his non-vented troll.

Fair point, I've never jumped anything else so no basis for comparison.

I wonder what difference each individual's terminal velocity makes? I'm pretty floaty in a track.

Gus

nice work mate!

[blair700 0]

Re: your direct control on the BJ, are you saying that you take a bite of the slider and wrap it with a rubber band...if so where is the rubber band attached..an in-board steering line attachment point?? You mention, this is more difficult on the BJ, why? Because of where the 5th steering line is attached..??

I've done about a dozen jumps in the 10-12 second range on my BJ 310 with large mesh slider, no direct control, and 32"ZP PC...sometimes AV some not..and my openings are fine, not much different than my Ace with same setup.

I'm wondering what others are doing for direct control on slider up jumps with Ace/BlackJack...?? Currently I am jumping non release (WLO etc) toggles and no direct control...and am wondering if its just a matter of time before the line-overOr is that another thread?
Thanks
Blair

[nicknitro71 0]

CR just released a steering line mod:

Now all the five lines are the same length.

Adam says this improves heading on slider up.

Older Aces and BJs can be easily retrofitted.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

...BJ:
...3. Single wrap on direct slider control. (Stugle to get a proper bite.)...

What size BJ? I had lots of fabric for the direct control bight on a 280.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

did you try the BJ whith fine hole mesh??
looks like you only used the Flik whith fine mesh and BJ whith large mesh,you cant compare then(after my oppinion)

I believe that he's just using what they ship with. I'm not sure if CR ships BJ's with fine mesh. At one point it was either large mesh or sail.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[blair700 0]

Tom,
Would you mind explaining in detail your direct control on the BJ?
Thanks
Blair

[TomAiello 25]

It's pretty much standard.

Note that I generally do not use direct control on Ace/BJ (without the new control line modification) on subterminal jumps, as I found that necessary to have acceptable slider openings (otherwise I found the openings too slow for my taste, and correspondingly inconsistent in heading, in my opinion).

I use one small (tailgate) rubber band. I've used black rubber bands, full size rubber bands, full size small (i.e. tailgate but not cut in half) bands, and two rubber bands (on opposite center C lines) with no real noticeable difference in outcomes.

I girth hitch (larkshead) the rubber band to a center C attachment tab. When I pull the slider up I pull a bite from the center of the slider through the rubber band. I've used two wraps and one wrap. I've also pulled the mesh through as far as it would go, and I've folded it in half inside the rubber band.

As far as I can tell, the most effect comes from pulling the slider as far as you can through the rubber band (not folding it over). Tighter bands (i.e. more wraps) appear to have more effect. I have not tried taking a big rubber band and wrapping more than 3 times (I was too worried about unacceptable snivels, and I wasn't having trouble with the hardness of the openings).

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Faber 0]

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In Reply To
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did you try the BJ whith fine hole mesh??
looks like you only used the Flik whith fine mesh and BJ whith large mesh,you cant compare then(after my oppinion)

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I believe that he's just using what they ship with.

sorry i thourght it were standard to ship large hole mesh slider whith(its not??)

Am i correct that the 2 canopyes will have more equal hard openings if boths use the large hole mesh slider?

As i dont think much about sliders im pretty sure i didnt special order a large mesh slider to my Flik,which i got(and is happy about it).

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[baseclimb 0]

Quote

did you try the BJ whith fine hole mesh??
looks like you only used the Flik whith fine mesh and BJ whith large mesh,you cant compare then(after my oppinion)

I did not tried the BJ with small mesh, and yes, you are right, one could then not compare, some of it. This is only to offer some information on experience with configs. Keep in mind, with this small mesh, I happily do 500 ft SU where I do with my BJ SD, due to had openings on my Flick. Not very comparable stats, I know, but interesting though.

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Am i correct that the 2 canopyes will have more equal hard openings if boths use the large hole mesh slider?

I would think so, but maybe there is a lot more into the aero dynamic design of canopies, that could make them behave slightly differently. I don't know.
I also explicitly asked for small mesh with my Flick. Thinks standard is large hole, not sure.

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What size BJ? I had lots of fabric for the direct control bight on a 280.

It is 260 or 266, whatever size. I don't know. First I thought I had my bungy on the wrong attachment point, especially after I installed it in my Flick. But I am sure it is on the C center. I get, with a strech, about 1-2inches on my BJ, and on the Flick, a fair bit more. It feels as if the direct control on the BJ could easily slip out, especially if you do one wrap like I do.

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Note that I generally do not use direct control on Ace/BJ (without the new control line modification) on subterminal jumps

I also like to use direct control on jumps of more than about 6secs. Hence, NOT from 500ft jumps.