Site Burning

[mickknutson 0]

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He also makes exceptions if you are one of his buddies.

Please PM me with details of any case in which you have seen this. I'll be happy to go back and have a look at anything I may have missed.

It's not just Tom... I've noticed if the person that names a well known site is a BASE jumper, it is accepted. But if the person is not a BASE jumper, they get shit for it. I don't know if it's just to make sure the non-BASE jumper knows the rules or if it's a double standard.

Example:
Thread I posted in...

A search for this site name in this forum...

In any case, it doesn't hurt to just leave names out regardless.

I think that the better meaning was....
You posted a site name on a forum, acting like a complete know-nothing wuffo, asking about a bridge that you could jump off of.
This is the same bridge I have seen high school students parachuting from. This is not the type of behaviour that we need to keep the bridge opened.

You searches are correct. Is has been posted before.
But, the internet is also the poorest place to display and judge attitude, and actualy expressions. Neticate is scattered, and not well known.
Moderators have the world toughest job, because we know about neticate, but also know most people don't. Then have cultural differences to deal with, just to keep control over a group that could always explode at any moment like a NUKE!
Not easy.

I think Tom does an amazing job.

Mick Knutson
* BLiNC Magazine "Everything you ever wanted to know about Parachuting, but didn't know whom to ask."

[skydivegirl 0]

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I think Tom does an amazing job.

I'm not saying he doesn't.

That particular topic was just confusing to me at first because I would see it accepted in some threads and not in others (ie, Mindygirl's post in the thread I linked above).

edited to add:

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You posted a site name on a forum, acting like a complete know-nothing wuffo, asking about a bridge that you could jump off of.
This is the same bridge I have seen high school students parachuting from. This is not the type of behaviour that we need to keep the bridge opened.

How is my wanting to take the Morpheus FJC at this bridge "not the type of behaviour that we need to keep the bridge opened?" (Unless that was directed at the original poster of that thread... please clarify)

Otherwise, I guess I still don't get it.

Pink Mafia Sis #26

[mickknutson 0]

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I think Tom does an amazing job.

I'm not saying he doesn't.

That particular topic was just confusing to me at first because I would see it accepted in some threads and not in others (ie, Mindygirl's post in the thread I linked above).

edited to add:

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You posted a site name on a forum, acting like a complete know-nothing wuffo, asking about a bridge that you could jump off of.
This is the same bridge I have seen high school students parachuting from. This is not the type of behaviour that we need to keep the bridge opened.

How is my wanting to take the Morpheus FJC at this bridge "not the type of behaviour that we need to keep the bridge opened?" (Unless that was directed at the original poster of that thread... please clarify)

Otherwise, I guess I still don't get it.

My impression from just the first post in the thread was that you did not elude to any FJC.
Did I miss that part of the posting?

Mick Knutson
* BLiNC Magazine "Everything you ever wanted to know about Parachuting, but didn't know whom to ask."

[skydivegirl 0]

my post word for word:

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I was planning on the Morpheus FJC there in May... when are you going?

I think you were talking about the post above mine... although I was the one questioning the naming of that particular site, I never actually named anything.

Anyway, I thought it was and still is a gray area... especially for newer people to this forum.

Pink Mafia Sis #26

[TomAiello 25]

Remember that the site you are discussing is one of my specifically stated exceptions. So I won't edit it out of discussion. Peer pressure not to name? Well, that's up to the peers, I suppose.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[base689 0]

> Naming legal sites like the wall in Norway, Italy, the one-day-deal bridge and others should be allowed.
No. It must NOT be allowed, Nick. Who say it "should" be allowed? You live in US, fine. You can come to jump Italy, Norway, wherever. You and your foreign buddies, very well welcomed indeed, come once a year, maybe twice if you are lucky, and stay here from 5 to 10 days a year. You do terrific jumps. You have terrific time.
Fine.
Have you ever thought that for the remaining 350 days of the year we (the locals) are left "alone"?
Have you have ever thought that talking about legal sites ("Oh, yes, they are legal, we can freely talk about legal sites...") leads to ALL THE WORLD to read how terrific is jumping Italian terminal wall? That Italian terminal wall is legal? That Italian terminal wall takes no harrasment from Police? That Italian terminal wall is "suitable" for first timers?
Now, because it legal and it is OK to talk publicily about legal sites, EVERYBODY can read this information.
Also skydivers that think that BASE jump is cool read this information, that Italian terminal wall is cool to be jumped, and so on. Come on, let's buy BASE rigs. Come on, let's try to pack it. Come on, let's go and do a fantastic trip to Italy (instead of Italy, write down any other European/foreign country as you like) to jump that terminal wall.
It's a pity this is NOT the way to learn how to BASE jump. It's a pity behaving this way there is a higher chance of fatalities happening. It's a pity fatalities did happen.
I am afraid you, as any other supporter of "If it's legal, let's talk freely about it" school of thought weren't there to help him packing, to help him to exit in dead air, to help him teaching escape procedures, whatever else, to talk to authorities and to friends/relatives of poor chap.
So, if any US/wherever citizen would like SO MUCH to talk about legal sites so bad that they cannot refrain from talking publicily about BASE sites, please, feel free to talk on the Internet about YOUR OWN legal sites in your OWN country. Please, leave Italian legal objects OUT of your posts/threads/public discussions. Thanks.
I think I have been clear about the reasons behind the "let's NOT talk publicily about ANY BASE site in the world" school of thought. It's not paranoia. It's just good old common sense and it's about tears dropped. Real things happened, not theory.
If you want so bad informations about foreign BASE sites, with few e-mail's (perhaps just one is enough), you have all the information you like. In fact, you did it.
I think it's not fair that "foreigners" come to our BASE sites, have fun jumping/have fun jumping with us for 10 days a year and they talk publicily about their experience in a legal BASE site for the remaining 350 days of the year, and WE, the "locals", are left to face with the consequences of such "big mouth" talking and face the many BASE wannabies "I learn to BASE jump in 15 minutes" attitude.
BASE sites information must be "difficult" to get for first timers. For "in activity" BASE jumpers, through Internet/BASE Board/Dropzone/whatever, is quite easy to get useful information, this happens through personal contacts.
So, my personal opinion is that THERE IS NO NEED TO TALK PUBLICILY OF LEGAL BASE SITES ON INTERNET.
I am open to receive comments/flaming/whatever.
In the meantime, peace to all.

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[nicknitro71 0]

Point well taken bro. I still want ot check those out this summer with you and I'll keep my mounth shut

What I don't like is the double standard of this forum. Tom does make exceptions of almost any kind if he knows you personally. He DOES overall do a good job but IMO he should be a bit more fare and play the devil's advocate all the time.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[skypuppy 1]

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according to the nazi's "YES"...

#10 Jeb Williams, 1986

I totally disagree. Jeb died on his 5th or 6th BASE jump. Most likely, 99% of all jumps were done on skydiving gear during this time. There were only 2 base rigs on the market at that time (JD walker and TNT) and ideas like bigger PCs were just rearing their head.
Jeb died proving that a normal skydiving PC doesn´t work well from 500ft. As far as I know, He was the first to die from using too small of a PC. Giving you, me and the rest of the world the The knowledge that you apparently take for granted about the use of larger PC in subterminal. There was ignorance on that jump surely, but no stupidity. Jeb is an Icon as his pioneering death set the stage for the PC age in BASE.
take care,
space

I like your take on it better, Space, but I think there was a fatality at Bridge Day (Grysting? spelling?) that also resulted from small pilot chute...

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[toni 0]

I too am sick hearing that "since it is legal, we can do whatever we want" attitude. Those walls are really really near to get closed. Forever!

In most of Europe, the attitude against the law is different. There is an applied law and a non applied law. And further, the law doesn't always reflect reality.

A short explanation: The "since it is legal" should be translated in "since we are accepted" or better "since we are welcome".

There was some time ago a site published on the internet where:

1. It is a very hairy jump and had multiple fatalities
2. Wind conditions aren't easy at all
3. Doesn't allow much orientation

and for the point of this thread:
4. Is very close to tourists/civil people/workers and this people weren't quite happy to actually see jumpers going in (understandable). If they could, they would close the site (the border between could and actually do is very close) Forever!


Another point of BASE689 is their wall on the internet "seems" easy. When you would take the time, ask the locals, they could explain you in detail on what to look and when it is dangerous to jump.



To finish, I think for "our" spots:
1. ALL jump places should go from mouth to ear. There is never that much information about a site in written format. This will reduce risks on a most effective way, not anything written somewhere at some time by someone anonymous can replace that.

2. Take time to elaborate a spot. Take your time walking and maybe waiting for a local you contacted to show you the place, it is worth... Jump numbers are just numbers...

Please accept this. If you're welcome, a local may show you some other secrets in their area...

[Jasmin 0]

Oh for f**k's sake!
Grow up!!

[Skinflicka 0]

You don't have to read it.

You don't have to post.

Some times during a rock fight a stray stone knocks fruit from the tree and everyone around gets the benefit.

Maybe a useful thread will develop. Maybe steam gets blown off. Maybe someone has some fun in the process (please don't remove the post due to this contentious idea).

Maybe none of this has any real value since we're hardly the UN trying to figure our world peace.

Don't take it too seriously.

Love n hugs.

$kin.

Prizes to anyone who gets to read my posts before Mr Aiello's son, Tom deletes them.

[Laraine 0]

Jasmin,
Bless your cotton socks. 'Grow up' sounds quite endearing when voiced by a 20year old. As Skinflicka remarked, it is not compulsory to read anybody's posts, nor is there a requirement to play the role of 'protector' and control everyone's level of interaction. I'm finding this thread really informative - not to mention entertaining - even though I am a highly experienced BASE jumper myself, (having done one jump off an un-named bridge).
I'm sure you have a lot of good things to contribute to any topic, as we all do. My concern is the level of hypocrisy I see in your communication.

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Oh for f**k's sake!
Grow up!!

My mother is a grown-up and does not use this kind of language. Also, men never grow up. (This is not a criticism, just an observation.)

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Haven't you all got better things to do than sit at your 'puter and bitch incessantly about who is/isn't part of Tom's cool group?

Speakin' of bitchin'....

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Instead its personal attacks galore, back-stabbing left-right-and-centre and a whole lot of good-for-nothing sledging.

Backstabbing is only back-stabbing when it is not voiced publicly. Personally I think a bit of sledging is quite good fun and not necessarily good-for-nothing.

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How pathetic are all of you??!!!

Posters, grow up!
Moderators, do your jobs!

The forums are meant to be for discussion, not for insulting one another's intelligence or lack thereof!!

Labelling people as pathetic, and then berating them for insulting others is a somewhat questionable technique.
To pinch, Skinflicka's line again, don't take it too seriously.

Personally I think you're all stark-raving mad (BASE jumpers that is), but I have the utmost respect for you as well and I look forward to reading some more juicy stuff.

[RayLosli 11]

Laraine......

Yo... can you give me a AHHHHH..Men
Brutha, or (sister) on that last post.

This is only Airing-out everyones thoughts
about the topic.
I am learning a crap load of info.

[Eiley 0]

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I am learning a crap load of info.

Agreed. This is probably the best thread I've read to truly explain the reasoning behind keeping all BASE sites a secret. I was one of the people who never really understood the thinking behind censoring the names of the well-known locations, but base689's post (among others) was an excellent explanation.

nothing to see here

[Jasmin 0]

Guess you missed my last couple of birthdays sweetheart. And yes, girls grow up a little quicker than boys

Yeah, it was a bit of rant. Apology for the extent, there's some good stuff in this thread I agree, but I ain't never seen no bitchin' like I have in this forum over the last couple of months. So I still stand by the sledging and the back-stabbing comments. (In between the Malaysia threads, the PM's about it and the posts deleted, its coming from posters and moderators alike).

It doesn't help those learning, it doesn't add to anyone's knowledge, and the post deletion without consulting pisses a lot of people off (J.Utah).

The point I'm trying to make is, afford each other a little respect and we'll all be a lot better off (and yes that one should be hit at me too).

xj

"I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with the earth...but then I wouldn't recommend picking a fight with a car either, and that's having tried both."

[base311 0]

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jasmin said, in part: ".... but I ain't never seen no bitchin' like I have in this forum over the last couple of months."

additionally, she said, "The point I'm trying to make is, afford each other a little respect and we'll all be a lot better off (and yes that one should be hit at me too)."

What you've seen here ain't shit compared to what BASE jumpers are capable of... just browse the archives over on Blinc for starters. This is lightweight stuff. Bitchin' and arguing and backstabbing and shit-talkin' is the stuff of BASE.

Ever tried to herd a pack of cats? Good f'n luck.

Gardner

[sangiro 4]

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Oh for f**k's sake!
Grow up!!

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How pathetic are all of you??!!!

Posters, grow up!
Moderators, do your jobs!

Jasmin, pipe down. You're starting to burn bridges. (excuse the pun!)

Safe swoops
Sangiro