BlindBrick 0 #1 December 1, 2003 I've got an MT-1X on the way and was wondering what's the minimum safe canopy size? Also, this thing is going to be packed at high altitude with low humidity so pack volume is goign to be a bit bigger than normal. I've got a PD 300 and an R-Max 288 but have a feeling that I'm going to need something bigger. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #2 December 1, 2003 Bad news, the only approved canopy is Paraflite's 370 series, but you can contact them at 856-663-1275 or email Mike Murphy at [email protected]. If there is a conflict between the canopy and container manufactures the container manufacture prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #3 December 1, 2003 Quotethe only approved canopy is Paraflite's 370 series, Right, and the only approved reserve for a Vector II is a Para Flite Safety Flyer, according to the label anyway. It is up to the assembling rigger to determine compatability of approved components. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #4 December 1, 2003 in particular, from AC-105-2c "A. The assembly or mating of approved parachute components from different manufacturers may be made by a certificated appropriately rated parachute rigger or parachute loft in accordance with the parachute manufacturer's instructions and without further authorization by the manufacturer or the FAA. Specifically, when various parachute components are interchanged, the parachute rigger should follow the canopy manufacturer's instructions as well as the parachute container manufacturer's instructions. However, the container manufacturer's instructions take precedence when there is a conflict between the two. B. Assembled Parachute Components Must be Compatible. Each component of the resulting assembly must function properly and may not interfere with the operation of the other components. For example: 1. Do not install a high volume canopy into a low-volume parachute container since the proper functioning of the entire parachute assembly could be adversely affected. 2. A TSO'ed canopy may be assembled with a demilitarized harness, or vice versa, as long as the assembled components comply with the safety standard of the original design. C. Any questions about the operation of the assembly should be resolved by actual tests by the rigger or loft to make certain the parachute is safe for emergency use. D. The parachute rigger or the parachute loft who are assembling components manufactured under TSO-C23c will record, in the space provided on the container, the data required by Aerospace Standard AS-8015B, paragraph 4.2.1. (Copies may be obtained from the Engineering Society for Advancing Mobility Land, Sea, Air and Space, 400 Commonwealth Drive, Warrendale, PA 15096-0001.) E. The strength of the harness must always be equal to or greater than the maximum force generated by the canopy during certification tests. 1. In a case where the harness is certificated under TSO-C23b and the canopy under TSO-C23c, the maximum generated force of the canopy must not exceed the certificated category force of the harness and container; i.e., Low-Speed Category (3,000 lbs.) and Standard Category (5,000 lbs.). In this instance, no additional marking on the container is necessary. 2. In the case where the canopy is certificated under the TSO-C23b and the harness under TSO-C23c, the strength of the harness must be equal to or greater than the certificated category force of the canopy. F. The user of a single harness, dual pack parachute system, which is a sport assembly consisting of a main and auxiliary/reserve parachute, may perform simple assembly and disassembly operations necessary for transportation, handling, or storage between periods of use if the parachute is designed to simplify such assembly and disassembly without the use of complex operations."I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #5 December 2, 2003 QuoteI've got an MT-1X on the way and was wondering what's the minimum safe canopy size? Also, this thing is going to be packed at high altitude with low humidity so pack volume is goign to be a bit bigger than normal. I've got a PD 300 and an R-Max 288 but have a feeling that I'm going to need something bigger. -Blind >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those civilian reserves will probably work, just plan on manufacturing a new, shorter reserve closing loop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #6 December 2, 2003 QuoteThose civilian reserves will probably work, just plan on manufacturing a new, shorter reserve closing loop. Cool. I was a little worried on the reserve as the last thing I want is the fit to be so loose that the freebag could go before the PC. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #7 December 2, 2003 QuoteBad news, the only approved canopy is Paraflite's 370 series, but you can contact them at 856-663-1275 or email Mike Murphy at [email protected]. If there is a conflict between the canopy and container manufactures the container manufacture prevails. This is a memo form Para Flite concerning civililian use of their MT-1 series of canopies. QuoteMEMO To: PFI Customers From: Repair Department/Customer Service Cc: Sales Department Date: December 2003 Re: MT-1 Series Canopies Dear Customer, The MT-1 series of gliding tactical parachute systems were specifically designed and engineered for tactical military application, including conventional military freefall (HALO) and stand-off (HAHO) operations. Para-Flite, Inc. does not recommend the use of these canopies in the civilian sport parachuting community. Designing and engineering a canopy for tactical military operational environment is a process which does not take into account considerations for a sport skydiving environment. They are sold exclusively to U.S. and foreign military defense organizations. After these canopies are “retired” from service with any military organization, Para-Flite, Inc. cannot “police” their potential use in the sport community. It is necessary, for individuals considering “after market” use of such canopies, to understand why they were “retired” or “de-militarized”, such as: The canopies have reached or exceeded their organization’s determined “self/service” life. The canopies have exceeded their organization’s determined porosity reading. The canopies are obsolete and ore no longer authorized for use or logistically supported. The canopies have exceeded their operational limitations due to excessive exposure to water or other environmental effect, or have been subject to excessive damage and subsequent repair so as to question structural integrity. Once canopies are demilitarized, due to any one or combination of these factors, it is impossible to trace their maintenance history. It is with this reasoning in mind that Para-Flite, Inc. recommends to anyone considering the use of these canopies, under the provisions of FAR Part 105, Subpart C, Section 105.43.D.2, to proceed with caution and at their own risk. My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 December 2, 2003 mjosparky's posting sounds like Para-Flite trying to distance themselves from sue-happy civilian skydivers. That being said, much military surplus gear is sold as scrap, for good reason. Substituting major components is a complex process, best left to Master Riggers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #9 December 3, 2003 OK. I'll bite. Why put those canopies in an MT-1X when you can get a Dolphin D-7 and slip them right in? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #10 December 3, 2003 QuoteOK. I'll bite. Why put those canopies in an MT-1X when you can get a Dolphin D-7 and slip them right in? Probably because they're cheaper to get? Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #11 December 3, 2003 QuoteOK. I'll bite. Why put those canopies in an MT-1X when you can get a Dolphin D-7 and slip them right in? Combination of the fact that I am a college student and that I just blew my new container fund on larger canopies since I moved to 6600 msl. I had an old Vector V-9 lined up but the leg straps turned out to be too short so the MT-1X was the only thing left within my budget. It was $50 US so I couldn't argue with the price point. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #12 December 3, 2003 >It was $50 US so I couldn't argue with the price point. And its been certified as airworthy by a rigger that is fimiliar with the MT-1x?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #13 December 3, 2003 Quote>It was $50 US so I couldn't argue with the price point. And its been certified as airworthy by a rigger that is fimiliar with the MT-1x? ***Zone is right, you need a rigger who has experience with this type of rig. Also, you will need the packing instructions for both the reserve and the main. They are not anything like a sport rig. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #14 December 3, 2003 This entire thread may appear to be taking shots at you, Brick. But, that's not what it is. I have "some" experience with the MT-1X including finding components, packing them, etc. The common theme you keep hearing about finding a rigger who has experience in this area is going to be somewhat challenging, albeit necessary. Putting together a demilitarized rig with civilian components that are significantly smaller than the pack tray volume for the original container "could" wind up costing you more than you saved. In addition, the questions, comments and concerns expressed in the thread are in the hopes that you don't find some rigger who's bravado to accomplish; is greater than your ass. Cause, its your ass on the line. You have a runny nose, you go to a runny nose Doctor and you go cheap. You need brain surgery, you try to find the best and don't care what it costs. You need the brain surgeon here, my man. This ain't no "reserve" repacker rigger job. I would encourage you to get hooknswoop, riggerrob or mjosparky to get you pointed to the right person in your area to assist and if there's not one locally, you need to send it to one of them. Just looking out for you, Bro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites atsaubrey 0 #15 December 3, 2003 how can packing the rigs or the original xx canopies be that much different than a sport rig? I was trained on a MT-1 and watched them being packed and it didnt look any different than a sport rig...just roll the nose on them or you get slammers."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlindBrick 0 #16 December 3, 2003 Quote Also, you will need the packing instructions for both the reserve and the main. They are not anything like a sport rig. I was under the impression that I couldn't legally repack any reserve without the instructions, but I definatley want the manual for some thing I am not familiar with. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlindBrick 0 #17 December 3, 2003 QuoteThis entire thread may appear to be taking shots at you, Brick. But, that's not what it is. I have "some" experience with the MT-1X including finding components, packing them, etc. Putting together a demilitarized rig with civilian components that are significantly smaller than the pack tray volume for the original container "could" wind up costing you more than you saved. No, I totally understand and don't consider any of you to be taking shots at me personally. Believe me, I would much rather not jump the MT-1X, but seem to have little choice as the DZ rental rigs don't fit and my normal gear is way too small to be jumping at these altitudes. Ah, how I miss the good ole days when my only troubles were the odd looks I generated when I wore that old busted-ass Telesis fitted with an AOD on the main. That, and having to keep people from sticking me near the door thinking I was a CReW dog. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #18 December 3, 2003 Quotehow can packing the rigs or the original xx canopies be that much different than a sport rig? I was trained on a MT-1 and watched them being packed and it didnt look any different than a sport rig...just roll the nose on them or you get slammers. They are just X canopies, XX means that the rig has a 370 as both a main and a reserve. They are 2 pin ripcord main containers which in it self is way different than most sport rigs. The reserve is a two pin system and does not use a molar bag, and the canopy is packed unlike any sport reserve. There are two set of rings on the harness besides the three ring, there is a belly band, pockets for a military type AAD and O2. They are simple until you do the wrong thing and they don't work. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #19 December 3, 2003 PM sent.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites atsaubrey 0 #20 December 3, 2003 so...is there a mt-1x and a mt-1xx? Cause i have the XX and it has a one pin main and two pin reserve. So isnt my rig just like packing a sport rig other then the reserve?"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #21 December 3, 2003 QuoteSo isnt my rig just like packing a sport rig other then the reserve? Yes with the exception of the spring loaded pilot chute and the main ripcord handle assembly which has a stright pin and a steel swagged ball end. You can flat or Pro pack that canopy, which ever is easier for you, but flat is easier if you have the space. As for the reserve there are some differences but they would not be unfamiliar to a good rigger. The reserve has a 19 inch spiral vane pilot chute,bridle(with deployment assist pockets) and D bag. The reserve slider is smaller than the main slider, the canopies themselves are identical."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #22 December 3, 2003 You should be able to find/download the manual for it here: Army Manuals Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DALAILAMA 0 #23 December 4, 2003 QuoteQuoteSo isnt my rig just like packing a sport rig other then the reserve? You can flat or Pro pack that canopy, which ever is easier for you, but flat is easier if you have the space. If you use the Pro pack method.....you won't use it long. It will hurt you eventually."Dropzone.com, where uneducated people measuring penises, has become an art form" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #24 December 18, 2003 Riggers, and those concerned, If you need the manuals for the MT/MC series let me know via PM and I will send you several TMs and Regs in PDF format."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beej 0 #25 December 18, 2003 Would a container that takes raven 4 282 for main and reserve be too small for you? I have a Talon '88 in very good condition that will be surplus soon... ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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nightjumps 1 #14 December 3, 2003 This entire thread may appear to be taking shots at you, Brick. But, that's not what it is. I have "some" experience with the MT-1X including finding components, packing them, etc. The common theme you keep hearing about finding a rigger who has experience in this area is going to be somewhat challenging, albeit necessary. Putting together a demilitarized rig with civilian components that are significantly smaller than the pack tray volume for the original container "could" wind up costing you more than you saved. In addition, the questions, comments and concerns expressed in the thread are in the hopes that you don't find some rigger who's bravado to accomplish; is greater than your ass. Cause, its your ass on the line. You have a runny nose, you go to a runny nose Doctor and you go cheap. You need brain surgery, you try to find the best and don't care what it costs. You need the brain surgeon here, my man. This ain't no "reserve" repacker rigger job. I would encourage you to get hooknswoop, riggerrob or mjosparky to get you pointed to the right person in your area to assist and if there's not one locally, you need to send it to one of them. Just looking out for you, Bro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #15 December 3, 2003 how can packing the rigs or the original xx canopies be that much different than a sport rig? I was trained on a MT-1 and watched them being packed and it didnt look any different than a sport rig...just roll the nose on them or you get slammers."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #16 December 3, 2003 Quote Also, you will need the packing instructions for both the reserve and the main. They are not anything like a sport rig. I was under the impression that I couldn't legally repack any reserve without the instructions, but I definatley want the manual for some thing I am not familiar with. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #17 December 3, 2003 QuoteThis entire thread may appear to be taking shots at you, Brick. But, that's not what it is. I have "some" experience with the MT-1X including finding components, packing them, etc. Putting together a demilitarized rig with civilian components that are significantly smaller than the pack tray volume for the original container "could" wind up costing you more than you saved. No, I totally understand and don't consider any of you to be taking shots at me personally. Believe me, I would much rather not jump the MT-1X, but seem to have little choice as the DZ rental rigs don't fit and my normal gear is way too small to be jumping at these altitudes. Ah, how I miss the good ole days when my only troubles were the odd looks I generated when I wore that old busted-ass Telesis fitted with an AOD on the main. That, and having to keep people from sticking me near the door thinking I was a CReW dog. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #18 December 3, 2003 Quotehow can packing the rigs or the original xx canopies be that much different than a sport rig? I was trained on a MT-1 and watched them being packed and it didnt look any different than a sport rig...just roll the nose on them or you get slammers. They are just X canopies, XX means that the rig has a 370 as both a main and a reserve. They are 2 pin ripcord main containers which in it self is way different than most sport rigs. The reserve is a two pin system and does not use a molar bag, and the canopy is packed unlike any sport reserve. There are two set of rings on the harness besides the three ring, there is a belly band, pockets for a military type AAD and O2. They are simple until you do the wrong thing and they don't work. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #19 December 3, 2003 PM sent.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #20 December 3, 2003 so...is there a mt-1x and a mt-1xx? Cause i have the XX and it has a one pin main and two pin reserve. So isnt my rig just like packing a sport rig other then the reserve?"GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #21 December 3, 2003 QuoteSo isnt my rig just like packing a sport rig other then the reserve? Yes with the exception of the spring loaded pilot chute and the main ripcord handle assembly which has a stright pin and a steel swagged ball end. You can flat or Pro pack that canopy, which ever is easier for you, but flat is easier if you have the space. As for the reserve there are some differences but they would not be unfamiliar to a good rigger. The reserve has a 19 inch spiral vane pilot chute,bridle(with deployment assist pockets) and D bag. The reserve slider is smaller than the main slider, the canopies themselves are identical."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #22 December 3, 2003 You should be able to find/download the manual for it here: Army Manuals Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DALAILAMA 0 #23 December 4, 2003 QuoteQuoteSo isnt my rig just like packing a sport rig other then the reserve? You can flat or Pro pack that canopy, which ever is easier for you, but flat is easier if you have the space. If you use the Pro pack method.....you won't use it long. It will hurt you eventually."Dropzone.com, where uneducated people measuring penises, has become an art form" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #24 December 18, 2003 Riggers, and those concerned, If you need the manuals for the MT/MC series let me know via PM and I will send you several TMs and Regs in PDF format."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites beej 0 #25 December 18, 2003 Would a container that takes raven 4 282 for main and reserve be too small for you? I have a Talon '88 in very good condition that will be surplus soon... ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
LouDiamond 1 #24 December 18, 2003 Riggers, and those concerned, If you need the manuals for the MT/MC series let me know via PM and I will send you several TMs and Regs in PDF format."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beej 0 #25 December 18, 2003 Would a container that takes raven 4 282 for main and reserve be too small for you? I have a Talon '88 in very good condition that will be surplus soon... ---------------------------------------------------- If the shit fits - wear it (blues brothers)-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
