Sam_Adams

In speed the best scores ever archived have been done with a tailwind component. looking at these results you figure that speed is done best most of the time with an average glide ratio of 1.5 while time in tailwind conditions has a glide ratio better than 3. in speed all the good scorers shoot through the competition window in less than 20 seconds (with only few exceptions within the top ten) meaning they loose more than 3000 feet in less than 20 seconds. to clarify, i mentioned the tailwind fact in the beginning cause this is how good results have been archived in speed. if we do this in no wind conditions speed favors a glide ratio of 1 roughly. we figured this out in quite a few years of doing performance competitions. so are you really trying to say that putting on a wing suit and falling with the fall rate of an aff student and a glide ratio of roughly 1.5 is more demanding than putting on a wing suit and fly it so efficient that you get a glide ratio of 3 or bigger and maxing out the time in the competition window by converting a powerful dive into forward speed to absolutely minimizing vertical fallrate? to clarify one more thing. i don't mind speed been done on competitions and i don't say one discipline is harder than the other. all three disciplines are challenging especially if they have to be done in the same suit. i don't know if you have ever competed in all three but if you have you shurly enjoyed the different demands of these challenges. its great to hear that you are thinking about making future competitions more complete and also i love the fact that you are getting into performance competitions now and that you are bringing this discipline to the us! great job! and i am looking forward to more interessting conversations on the subject on the dz. most of all i am keeping thumbs pressed for good weather tomorrow and sunday! cu tomorrow tim You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

looking at the topscores at the ppc website, you are right. caldwell, boole, uragallo, kloska, tacke, scherrinsky...they are ALL skinny and little...and absolutly talent free everybody who knows a little more about this kind of competitions agrees that each disciplin (time, distance and speed) favors a slightly different tecnique, body shape and suit. and without talent, you get nowhere. on the ppc website you can analyse each individual jump by graphs. show us one of the ten best time jumps where there wasn´t at the same time a big distance covered (taking into acount the influence of wind that can´t be seen for the individuel jump.on some there was a lot of headwind involved, still, no one ever managed to get a great time just "falling down like a leave that goes nowhere") blue skies and cu saturday tim You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

Awesome! looking forward to WoM in 2012!!

congratulations girls!!! well done!

Good stuff Justin! Way to go! You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

Wicked! Thats really a great idea! You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

since i wrote my first post after this comment i wonder: was that still part of the new pf product announcement? i guess not... and talking about a podium....there is only one podium for me and hopefully for all of us...and that is blue and we see it when we look above .... none of the great visionary wingsuiters like patrick, jari, loic, tony and robert had their podium here on the internet and posted thousands of posts. so let´s all remember the quote on the shirt you can buy in every gear shop.... and let´s all "skydive more, bitch (and hang out in the internet) less" over and out, have a good night everyone

i didn´t ask you that. i just told you that i normaly fly a blade two and that i heard you were birdman before. and then you told me what you had to say about birdman... i didn´t ask for that. since i was one of the three involved in the conversation who should i ask? i am confused..... you explained to me and to me alone about some sort of material drag that causes problems. for my profession i studied aerodynamics and i had no idea what you were talking about so i asked if you mean "friction drag" as one of the 4 kinds of drags excisting which have all different behaviours depending on speed. so you continued to explain to me and to me alone (the girl was just listening at that moment) what you think about that problematic material. in the end i still didn´t understand the aerodynamic laws behind your theory but i left with the feeling that tonysuit is not good for flocking if you are not a giant and very heavy. i think no one is angry here or are you? if so don´t take it to seriously and relax. yes after dse said what he said about tonys foto session i made the comparison with the 3 ring system....and then i answered your question refeering to a conversation we had in marl. now you are talking about the big attacks from me on pf and you. maybe you should read the thread again. a lot of people have stated their opinion not more not less, some seem to like tonysuits, some pf, some brought in the copying thing.... some accused tony directly of "industrial espionage" i said i don´t like the marketing that i experienced from you.... so if you want what i wrote getting deleted.... i don´t mind.... let me just tell you one thing, i just returned from a business trip in turkmenistan a country where internet is hardly anywhere available and most websites and all forums are censored and shut down.... we have the freedom of speech here.... let´s use it and accept the opinion of others even though we might not like it blue skies to everybody, wether you are ts or pf You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

i think i can answer that. my guess is it was designed by the company you bitched about when i met you at the wings over marl competition 2010. you told me about the cutaway system that can kill you that they created.... and if i remember right that conversation was some hours before you told me and the girl you measured about the problems that tony has in your opinion with the "friction drag" on his suits when people try to flock with wingsuits from tonysuits. remember? just to make it clear, i think pf makes really good products. but the badmouthing about birdman and tonysuits on dz´s is really uncool. a great example for marketing within our small community: airtec: they never talk about anything else than their product. they don´t need to talk about their competitors...they just talk about the strengh of their cypres.... i think thats the way..... and what concerns this thread.... jeff just asked if thats the same system that tony used and then dse said that tony copied what he saw on pia....but he apologized so let´s give it a rest.... You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

i am wondering does pf have to pay an amount to tony now everytime they put on the escape sleeve to a suit they sell? like back in the days everybody paid bill booth for being allowed to use the 3 ring system on their rigs? ;-) You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

what you are writing here shows great attitude, but don´t be too hard on yourself. it is in the human nature to make mistakes, in the learning process as well as when you think that you have learned it all. it´ll happen....as you remember i got kicked in the face by a really experienced and good wingsuiter. in these bigger ways you hardly can guarantee that nobody touches nobody. and if you expect this you should think about if you are in the right sport or maybe you should consider doing more solos. you make a mistake learn from it, apologize, don´t do it again. talking about this event we all agree that bland, callantine and shorb did a good job organizing it. no reason to bitch about that. everybody who was there learned and left the event with a little bit more experience and skill. and actually i don´t think spott was refeering to this event. You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

true! there have been documented incidents with bridle knots with standart length bridles as well. and thinking about the laws of physics the above mentioned explanation makes absolut sense. i use myself a longer than standard bridle and bigger pilotchute from upt and it works perfect for me. You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

LOL don´t they say "you can do whatever you want as long as you look cool while doing it" ?

hey orgasmo, i really loved your post! some things you said i couldn´t have said better! *** The more I read the w/s forum threads, the more I wonder if I really have the minimum "requirements" to even jump a wing suit in the same sky as some "heroes" on here.*** some people really wanna scare the shit out of people that are interessted in beginning to wingsuit. they try to make wingsuiting look like rocket science and that you need to take a lot of expensive coaching to be safe. (best if you buy that coaching with these guys of course) wingsuiting is quite easy and a lot of fun. you´ll be a really good wingsuiter faster, than a really good free flyer or swooper. of course it absolutly makes sense to have the experience of 200 regular skydives before you put on a wingsuit, i really think that is a great rule but from there on....use common sense (which you should have from the experience of 200 jumps, get coaching if you want, listen to good people (wether they have a self made coach rating or not) and enjoy flying. buy the suit that you like wether it´s because you think it really is the best or just because you think it has the nicest colours. hey it´s only wingsuiting we are talking about! You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

wow that sounds really scary and dangerous, i am glad i have never been on such an event! luckily there are organizers like shorb and callantine from the flockuniversity or raise the sky for example where you don´t have to worry about something like that. You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

i agree with riaan "facts".... tony invented the x, tony sold it. nobody denies that.and all that has been said is that the new design reminds a lot of people of the x-bird. jarno that doesn´t mean that i don´t believe that you have drawn a lot of pictures and showed them to people. nobody said something negative about the new toys, maybe they inspire someone someday too ?!? let´s not get to sensitive here. as dse said, copying, or "getting inspired" by products that are already out there is what creates new products and thats a good thing. everybody has done that and if someone didn´t he wouldn´t have been long in the business. You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

yes harry had that stealth competition as they called it at that time and he did really good, came really close to the results that were archieved in x birds. he is not skinny but he´s not as heavy as tony though ;-) i havn´t felt any negative attitude in this thread yet and speaking for me i respect phoenix fly a lot. as i said the rivalry between this companys is good for the customers. everyone wants to make the best suit out there. but you cannot curse someone for being reminded of the x-bird looking at the shape of the new pf suit can you? You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

I am shure this is where the development is going :-)) You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

i agree with you. if it would only be the suits than this competitions wouldn´t be any fun at all. and i am with you on the windy thing as well but the wind is the same for all competitors on the same load and in gransee for example everybody is on the same load. so let´s take the two disciplines that are saying something about the performance of a big suit (cause you asked what i was refering to) who can stay up there longest (time) wind is no factor here. who can fly the biggest distance (distance) wind is a factor. so just compare competitions results not total values. i was just refering to 2010 but 2009 is not really different. let´s stick to time here wings over gransee training http://www.wingsuitcompetition.com/ppc/showevent.php?category=Time&event=Wings+over+Gransee+2010+-+Training&units=metric wings over gransee final results in time (i think it´s a phoenix fly event) http://www.wingsuitcompetition.com/ppc/showevent.php?event=Wings%20over%20Gransee%202010 wings over marl final results in the main event (which was time) http://www.wingsuitcompetition.com/ppc/showevent.php?event=Wings%20over%20Marl%202010 it was always x-birds on the podium. and a lot of skilled flyers in stealth2´s competed as well. now i am really interested and looking forward to see phoenix flys new toys on the competitions! competiton (not only these competitions but competition in general for example the competiton between tonysuits and pf) is good for everyone. since every company is wanting to create the best product, the customer is always the winner!! agree? You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

hey if i made a point at all, it was that it´s perfectly normal in that kind of industry that you take the best there is and try to make it better to please the desires of the customers. generally speaking. i am not into brandwars. i guess you can understand that people seeing that new product of course get reminded of the xbird... remember the stealth2 competition? the wings on that suit reminded everybody on the x-bird as well and it made perfectly sense to try that after the x-bird dominated the performance competitons so clearly (looking at the results of the paralog website) i have flown a lot of pf wingsuits and they are good products! don´t get my last post wrong. You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

hey riaan, i guess you are right. in the last years tony has set the standart and now the others copy his designs. but that is just a normal thing. look at lexus for example. this is how the business goes.tony for shure understands it as a compliment ;-) You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

really interesting threat that reminds me of two occasions within the last 12 months where i thought about very similar things. first thing was not wingsuit related, happened on the mountain gravity boogie in switzerland last summer where a (good looking) girl with 64 jumps was asked by one of the load organizers to join a "mountain swooping" jump (flying under canopy close to the high mountains and landing out (landing out was planned and necessary cause at this mountain range was no regular landing area) the boogie organizers asked for a minimum of 100 jumps for that kind of jump and the lo knew this girl had less but still talked her into it and she joined. when i later said that in my opinion this was very unprofessional many jumpers who were on this boogie told me that in skydiving everybody is responsible for himself and that it is not the responsibility of the organizers to prevent something like that.... i was surprised by so many people having that opinion cause i deeply believe that whenever someone makes money with something like that that he has the responsibility to check whom he is selling this to. so to answer your question, yes this guy had no business on your plane in my opinion. and main reason for that is the jump number. and it´s the officals of that dz who have to make shure this 200 jump rule is followed. the other ocassion was a wingsuit threeway with two other guys in their stealth 2 suits i had recently. by the way they talked i expected them to be ok flyers. it ended up to be a bandito jump (this is how i call jumps where no one sticks to the plan or people turn out to be completly skill free in the air after telling big stories on the ground and which you better hadn´t joined) one of them really scared me and i had to pop up twice to avoid a collision cause he would always move in with high speed unable to stop his movement in time. on the ground i was really pissed and while packing one of the guys came to me with beer and thanked me for joining on his 200th jump. couldn´t believe what i just heard and i asked for the jump number of the other guy that nearly took me out twice. but this guy had 800 jumps (30 in a wingsuit) so thinking about it the guy who just made his 200th jump shouldn´t have been on that load with no matter what suit he flew. but what about the other guy, he had the jump number but apparently he wasn´t ready for his stealth2. by the 200 jump rule he earned his right to jump it....but i woudn´t fly with him again. i think there are no easy answers to the whole subject, and i can only use my right as a customer to refuse to be on the same loads or jumps as people that are in my opinion unsafe. on the other hand i also expect dz officials to increase safety by refusing to sell jump tickets to people who not meet requirements that apply in the country they intend to jump in. in my opinion the responsibilities of dz officials doesn´t end after having sold the ticket at manifest....thats why i think it was a good call not to let this guy jump in a wingsuit on your shift. You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

spike and jackie? i should come too!!! :-) tim You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

no worries ronaldo, glad i could help! and yes, take every chance to demo whatever suit you can get your hands on. there are a lot of good products out there. having flown myself many of the suits available these days i have to say if you in the end decide to buy the r-bird you won´t regret it. for shure it´s one of the best all around suits out there! blue skies You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"

oi ronaldo, if flocking is what you plan on doing most of the time when you put on your wingsuit, then the r-bird is going to give you everything you ever want out of a wingsuit. you will love it! flocking of course can be done in the bigger suits as well, on the 68way in elsinore or recently on the vertical 25way people were flocking their x-birds and s-birds. of course these big suits demand more experience and skills and again if what you mainly want to do is flocking it´s just not necessary to bring these big toys. you might wanna check out this very cool website, maybe these guys can help you out with an r-bird as well http://wickedwingsuits.com/ até logo ;-) You see things; and you say, 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?"