michaelmullins

Re. the second point: Again, maybe on a DZ this is very straightforward, if you only have accounts with $ amounts on them. In my own business the "you look up what they are owed" is not that straightforward. They might have 10 sessions (=jumps) on their account but that tells me nothing about how these sessions were added to their account and therefore how much they paid for them. They can come from promotions, gift certificates, pre-paid purchases, rewards (like we gave them free sessions for whatever reason), or a combination of all. Looking up how much they are "owed" would be the time consuming procedure. I'd actually have to go back to find the original purchases, at least in some cases--and our regular front-desk staff would be somewhat over-taxed by that task, especially if they are taking care of the regular business at that same time. (again: that would not apply to credit someone has from the same day of jumping--in that case I also don't see any good reason to claim that this would be difficult) QuoteAnswer: Again, that is not the scope of this discussion. We all know that it can become complicated when 3rd party vendors, block tickets, or discounted tickets are involved. We are discussing money on account for full price tickets or physical tickets. These are easy to refund and no one should allow a DZ to keep their money in this scenario.

That is true only in ideal circumstances. For example, if the CC was charged through our online booking system, it is possible to refund in that system, but only after CC charges have cleared (which takes 24 hours IF the initial charge was not on a weekend--otherwise longer). So to refund before that time, you have to log into the system of the payment processor that's behind the online software, search for the specific transaction (often not as easy to find as one would wish) and then cancel the transaction before it had gone through (generally that's not a system that the front desk person would have access to, so involves getting a manager/owner) With in-person credit card transactions via physical terminals, you have to have the actual credit card to slide it again for a refund and if you don't, it's a major headache involving calls to the merchant provider with 30min+ hold times, or you can wait until the charge has gone through and use the online system for the refund--but that could be days later. (We've also heard of people wanting refunds, where the CC they initially used had expired between the charge and the refund, making a simple refund impossible) Additionally, you have to make sure that the person who calls you and wants a refund has actually paid in the first place (sure, if it's the end of the same day and they want their deposit back, then it's not a big deal, but if they call at the end of the season and say they purchased a 20-jumps block back in April and used only 7 of them, you'll have to spend some time verifying that) Still, those are not reasons not to give the refund, but the "this only takes 5 seconds" argument from people who are not running businesses and don't know the details of the processes involved, is a bit annoying. (Lastly: If you call the CC company to invalidate the charge instead of the DZ/vendor himself, the CC company charges the business an extra fee--usually around $15--for the trouble of taking the money back. So call the DZ first--they'd be really stupid not to refund and then have to pay the extra fee. Of course the bank usually sides with the consumer and they love these refunds because they get a fee no matter who wins the dispute) You say: "With in-person credit card transactions via physical terminals, you have to have the actual credit card to slide it again for a refund and if you don't, it's a major headache involving calls to the merchant provider with 30min+ hold times, or you can wait until the charge has gone through and use the online system for the refund--but that could be days later." That is actually not true, I refund cc all the time with just the card number even if it was for a purchase made with the physical card, have never had a problem doing this. Then you say: "Additionally, you have to make sure that the person who calls you and wants a refund has actually paid in the first place (sure, if it's the end of the same day and they want their deposit back, then it's not a big deal, but if they call at the end of the season and say they purchased a 20-jumps block back in April and used only 7 of them, you'll have to spend some time verifying that)." The credit card will only refund to the card that made the original purchase. You look up how much the person is owed then you refund the card that is in that persons name, you have the last 4 digits of the card on file. Again, you can only refund a card that has been charged by you. As far as 3rd party vendors, that was not in the scope of this discussion, we are simply talking about persons putting money on their account at the DZ or purchasing physical tickets. Mike Mullins

In the US, surcharges are illegal in California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, and Puerto Rico. However, a merchant can still have a "discounted cash price" and a "credit card price", so it ends up the same. Also, surcharges and convenience charges are two different things. Convenience fees are those fees that are charged for non face-to-face transactions, such as buying on the internet. The CC providers allow convenience charges, they discourage or do not allow surcharges. Again, merchants get around surcharges by posting a cash discount price. As for the "time and trouble" a merchant (DZ) goes through to refund a card, that is absolute crap. I can refund a card in about 5 seconds. So here is how is should happen when someone requests a refund for jumps charged on his card: 1. DZ looks on the computer and sees what your total charges are and what you have paid. If they don't use a computer, they have to have recorded the information somewhere, somehow, or you could simply get on loads without paying. 2. DZ takes your card, swipes it, and punches in the difference. The merchant could also add on the surcharge that the DZ paid originally to run the card, typically 3%, if they did not charge a fee upfront. Of course if they charged a surcharge upfront then it is unfair to charge a surcharge on the refund. The DZ can actually get this surcharge back from the cc company, anyway, on the amount refunded. Again, if a DZ keeps your money for services not rendered, contact your cc company and, depending on the company, you will probably get your money back immediately. Very true for AMEX, vaires with other cc companies, your are out of luck if you used a debit card. My advice when planning a trip to a DZ, call and ask them what their refund policy is and make it clear that you will go elsewhere if they plan on keeping any unused money on your account or refuse to refund tickets. I know that due to circumstances you may have to go there but then just pay for one jump at a time. Mike Mullins

Not knowing what software they're using you're making a big assumption there. There are definitely some accounting programs (I'm thinking SAGE) where crediting refunds (particularly if it's after a monthly reporting cycle) is a real pain in the arse and can play havoc with the reporting of a P&L. It's possible some DZ software is similar. Regarding the jump ticket refund I think it's simple to use the airline ticket model - at least that's the way I'd do it: Full price tickets should be refunded at will upto a certain expiry date (several years). Block tickets which include a discount are refundable at the discounted rate, less a small administrative fee. Special-rate / holiday tickets are non-refundable as the income may be needed against special aircraft or entertainment for that event. Money on account should be transferable, less any bank fees that may apply. I'm not sure if VISA, for example, would charge the DZ for issuing refunds the way they charge for small purchases. It's not fair that a DZ should suck up those costs. Actually, the cc clearing house that the DZ does business with will refund any service fees if asked. However, to avoid any hassles or possible service charges, the DZ can simply put a hold on the card for an amount greater than the person will probably charge, just like a hotel: "Some hotels place a hold amount on your card when you make your reservation or check in. This reduces the amount of available credit on your card, but it’s not a charge. The hold amount might equal one night’s stay or a daily incidental fee equal to the number of days you’ll stay. The hold is released after you check out and pay." There is really no excuse for any DZ not to refund full price jump tickets. To ensure this never happens to you, make all your charges American Express. If the DZ will not refund, explain it to AMEX, they will immediately remove the disputed amount and the DZ has 10 days to prove that you actually incurred the expense. Same with some MC or Visa but AMEX is much better in these situations. Never, ever, pay with a debit card. Mike Mullins

Regarding credit card refunds, as a DZO I have refunded many credit cards over many years. I do agree that credit card purchases should not be refunded in cash but there is really no problem with refunding the card. The DZ cc provider may or may not still charge the original transaction fee to the DZ after a refund is made but if you call them, they will also refund the fee to the DZ. Since the fee is usually quite small on the usual size transaction that is made, I do not bother to ask about it. If the refund is substantial, then I will. You aslo say "And there is another issue - if the bank sees a credit for a refund, where that card was never run at the merchant, often the bank will reject the transaction".... Actually, if you try to run a refund on a card that was never charged, it will not go through. This is an important safety feature and if it were otherwise you could be having your employees refund their and their friends cards at will at your expens. There is really no excuse for not giving refunds and it is terrible customer service to not do so. Mike Mullins

QuoteExactly what I am talking about. Mike Mullins

I think the principle remains the same. People pay money for a service, and that implies a contract between the two parties. I could understand a DZ perhaps claiming 10% or so as an administration fee, but that needs to be made clear at the time money is paid. But what is there to stop jumper A with unused tickets to simply sell them to jumper B, or transferring his credit to another jumpers account and taking the cash from him? DZOs that indulge in such shonky practices need to be called out, its unethical as well as dishonest. But I guess they pay for it with the damage it causes their reputation. Why would anyone do that? Quote The DZs that do this do it because they get away with it. Many jumpers are too timid in dealing with DZs, they should raise hell until they get their money back and make it clear that they will post in every jumper forum the policy of not refunding, report it to the BBB, and make a police report.

Please stick to the topic. This is not about gift certificates or anything else except normal jump tickets either bought as a physical ticket or as money on account. As in my original post: "Not talking about tandems, student fees, or discounted jumps. Just talking about experienced jumpers with jump tickets or money on their account." Thanks, Mike Mullins

I would like to know any possible rationale for some dropzones refusing to refund unused jump tickets or money placed on account. Not talking about tandems, student fees, or discounted jumps. Just talking about experienced jumpers with jump tickets or money on their account. Example 1: Joe Jumper buys 5 physical jump tickets, can only use 3 before weather comes in, needs to leave, cannot get a refund on his unused tickets. Example 2: Visiting jumper Jill places $200 on her account for the weekend, does not exhaust the credit before needing to leave, refused a refund. In both these cases, the jumper could have just bought one ticket at a time, just before the jump, and then would not have this problem. This seems to be blatantly unfair, possibly illegal, and I am curious why any skydiver would put up with this “policy”. My advice to anyone going to a dz with a “no refund” of unused jump tickets is to simply buy them one at a time. This policy may also open up a dz to additional liability. For instance, a jumper feels that the wind is a bit high for their comfort level, jumps anyway as they cannot get a refund, and is injured. Then claims in court that they felt pressured to jump by the dz as they could not get their money back.

QuoteI am not completely sure but I think that UPT has approved the Precision Reserve in a Sigma, which would solve your problem. Ask UPT.

As in mountain climbing, high altitude jumps/records are always based on MSL.

Looks like West Tennessee Skydiving. What do I win for the correct answer?

This is the best place for winds: https://markschulze.net/winds/

No apology necessary, I believe we are the only ones to ever do it and you would have no way of knowing about it.

[ Actually you can do a Tandem Static Line Jump. Some years back, we had a static line student come from another DZ to our AFF only DZ. We have an interface where you can easily connect any sport rig to a Tandem harness. It has a handle where either the Tandem Instructor or the Tandem Student can release the Tandem Student (who has a sport rig on) at any time during the jump, whether in freefall or under canopy. We use this for those that wish to make an intentional cutaway with their sport rig and it also just fun. We have done jumps where the TI has released the passenger in freefall and the passenger then does RW with the TI. So, we attached this static line student to the TI with the interface on a static line equipped rig. TI exited at 14,500', did a freefall to 6,000', and opened with the student attached. TI then had the static line student arch then released the student. Static line attached to the TI opened the rig, student fell about 200' during the opening, worked perfect, no line twists, no problems. So, we had a student do a freefall (Tandem) and a static line jump on the same jump.

There may have been basically no rules here at the time. Even now there are very few. And the few that there are pertain mostly to demo jumps. There is no repack cycle rule in Canada by law except for demos for example. And no TSO standards for gear either. Only CSPA rules. QuoteThere are very specific rules in effect in Canada now, from your Canadian Air Regulations General Operating and Flight Rules: 5) Parachute descents shall not be initiated where any part of the descent, including the freefall will be through clouds; (7) The aircraft shall be a minimum of 500 feet below and 2000 feet horizontally from cloud with a minimum flight visibility of 5 miles when dropping parachutists; I would also suspect that these cloud rules have been in effect for quite some time. Mike Mullins Canadian Rules Researcher

I'm not completely sure on this. But from a Canadian perspective the rules were changed. At least that is how I've learned the legend of the event. QuoteThe jump was in the US under US rules. I have no idea what the rules in Canada were at the time but I seriously doubt that Canadian rules at that time would have allowed this jump under those same conditions.

***"From a legal perspective ...... rules were written after a disasterous jump during the 1960s that saw a dozen(?) jumpers drown in one of the Great Lakes. That disaster caused a rigid rule about all jumps needing to stay VFR." Actually, no new rules were written. The same rules were in effect then as now. The jump was totally illegal under the rules then as now, rules have not changed.

***"From a legal perspective ...... rules were written after a disasterous jump during the 1960s that saw a dozen(?) jumpers drown in one of the Great Lakes. That disaster caused a rigid rule about all jumps needing to stay VFR." Actually, no new rules were written. The same rules were in effect then as now. The jump was totally illegal under the rules then as now, rules have not changed.

***Welcome to Skydive Space Center World's Highest Tandem Jump - 18,000 FEET!! http://www.skydivespacecenter.com/ Quote West Tennessee Skydiving supplies the aircraft, Mike Mullin's Super King Air, and DZ for HaloJumper.com, and Halojumper.com supplies the oxygen equipment and training for the jumpers for our oxygen jumps. We have been doing this for the last 20 years and have dropped well over 2,000 jumpers from altitudes between 28,000' and 30,000' and at least 800 of these have been tandem skydives. We dropped 2 tandem pairs, with video, today, 4 Sept 2017, from 28,000' at West Tennessee Skydiving. Our jump altitude in the past was always 30,000' but a few years ago the FAA instituted RVSM airspace and it takes equipment that this series King Air does not have to go above 28,000', so we only do 28,000' now. In some regions the FAA will waiver this equipment but not in our region. We do the highest, and only, Tandem Jumps available from 28,000'. As far as all the other claims, they know we do this and you can draw your own conclusions from their hype. Our 28,000' Tandem Skydive is 10,000' higher than their "World's Highest Tandem Skydive" at 18,000'. We do not lie to our customers. I had actually emailed Skydive Monterey Bay in 2006 to politely tell them that their claim was inaccurate. The emails are attached, nothing was changed. Mike Mullins West Tennessee Skydiving

Not splitting hairs, splitting sunlight. The zone of totality is about 70 miles wide so Jasper is about 70 miles from the center of totality. You will definitely see something in Jasper, it will be cool, but it will not come close to a total eclipse.

*** Actually, the DZ is 25 miles from the line of totality. This DZ will get a partial solar eclipse. If you are not truly in the zone of totality it is not very impressive. If you go to the following site it has an excellent map of the eclipse, you can zoom way in, and if you click on a particular point it will give you all the specs of the eclipse for that point: http://xjubier.free.fr/en/site_pages/solar_eclipses/TSE_2017_GoogleMapFull.html Mike Mullins

West Tennessee Skydiving will have a Super Skyvan available on the following dates in 2017: 29-30 April 6-7 May 13-14 May (SIS Boogie) On each of these weekends we also have available our Super King Air, Helicopter, Pitts Special Biplane for Inverted Jumps, and Swoop Pond. At the SIS Boogie on 12-14 May, the ladies of SIS can make Super King Air jumps for 1/2 price, $13.00 to 14,500'. The SIS event will again benefit the Foundation for Women's Cancer. For more information on the SIS Event: https://www.facebook.com/events/341449449560244/ Mike Mullins West Tennessee Skydiving http://www.SkydiveKingAir.com [email protected]

Is there a FAA or Contract Air Control Tower at the field? Mike Mullins

Part 105.5 PARACHUTE JUMP means a parachute operation that involves the descent of one or more persons to the surface from an aircraft in flight when a parachute is used or intended to be used during all or part of that descent. There was a PARACHUTE JUMP happening during Luke’s jump. There were at least three other jumpers wearing rigs with the intent of using them. Not sure what this means.....any thoughts? Means nothing. The other 3 were making a perfectly legal skydive.