hparrish

Wow that poor guy never saw it coming either. Well.......Unfortunately thats what happens when a group of new freeflyers decide to jump together. Thats an example of why folks need coaching and to stick to 2 ways until they have enough control to jump with more people. Ouch,,,,

Well...i done a search and as far as i know, there`s no school/instruction or similar course here in norway for groundlaunching(only paragliding and hangliding)...thats why i ask question over web..... i have to start at one point.. Sounds like it's time for a Vacation to the States.....

Ha!!! Unless I'm there making big splashes in your Pond.

Woops, Guess I should have clicked on his profile. Sorry Chris. I still think Instruction is the way to go though. Not questions over the Web.

Do you guys still put RW groups that open @ 2-2.5K AFTER FF groups most of whom open at 3.5? :) Yes FF still exists first at CSS, shouldnt matter with a Cross Wind Jump Run. Thats a separate discussion. This thread has been hijacked enough.

Well Said..........Kind of the point I was trying to make earlier. You definately said it more clearly.

Hey Man.............Just an FYI...............You're arguing with someone who has proven themself on the CPC and now the PST. Ian is a Pro Swooper........What are your credentials?

How would you do that, exactly? Also, are these methods applicable to visiting jumpers only or to locals as well? If the latter, have you been successful in getting rid of all the bad apples yet? I was just responding to Aggies Multiple levels of dissatisfaction. We have very few examples of poor landing patterns at my DZ. When they do arrise a simple conversation is all that is needed to remedy a situation. I just make sure I never yell at anyone and explaing things in a manner that they understand. If unfortunately there is someone who says F Off, and continues doing dangerous things that affect others, then we take action. The Swoopers at my DZ have a good relationship with the DZO's so if we let them know there is an issue and the person is telling us to F Off, they are usually asked to leave by the DZO. We are pretty rational at our DZ. We also clearly communicate what the landing pattern should be. Allot of the Swoopers will land down wind so we will announce to the rest of the load to ignor us and land with the wind sock. It's usually never a conflict since we usually land first. But what works at my DZ doesn't necessarily work elsewhere.

Why not learn to use the tools available while you're learning to swoop, so you can become a more consisitant swooper and a safer swooper? I guess you want beginner swoopers to just guess at their altitude and hope they're right. I guess that'll learn them, slamming into the ground and everything. Nothing teaches people like breaking their femur and pelvis, huh? Oh come on Aggie............I sometimes think you argue just for the sake of argument. Did you learn on Digital Altimeters? Anyone before they start swooping should know how to visually compare their altitude using their visual altimeter or visual references. That's what saves your but when you mess up. you need to recognize mistakes visually to save yourself in time. (Although I should talk). They should start swooping using the basics, and getting a feel for swooping. Not starting their Dive when a Beep goes off in their ear. Digital Alti's are a reference tool that I believe should be incorporated after you have the basics down. Not a tool to learn how to swoop with, a tool to learn how to advance with.

Ummmmm "These Guys" have a hell of allot more swooping experience than You do. Sorry But thats a Fact. Second I used to sell Brian Germains canopies, so I'm not slamming him. While I respect allot of what he says...........He is not the end all be all when it comes to swooping. His opinions are just that.

Sure..............but not to learn how to swoop. I think you should learn without these tools, then integrate them to refine your skills. So I ask. Why if you have many tools available to you, why not use them all? Do you believe that it gives a new pilot too much to learn in the beginning? Is learning the "old ways" a great progression, and such you learn more appreciation for the 'tools'? No I dn't believe that this tool is ggod to start swooping with. It can be more of a distraction than a learning tool. It teaches folks to rely on equipment rather than learning to judge distance visually. I think Digital Alti's are good tools after you have the basics down.

There's a reason why a large majority of my last 500 "fun" jumps have been altitude clear and pulls. I want to swoop, I enjoy swooping, but I don't enjoy dealing with other jumpers who are visiting and have no concept of landing patterns. Atleast our home-grown jumpers do a really good job, but then again, we've pounded it in their heads from their first tandem on. Ahhhh Now that's a different story. if someone is visiting my DZ and ignoring what is being asked.......Then we show them the Door, and not to the plane, if you know what I mean. Tell me to FU Off if you feel so inclined when I'm visiting your DZ. But forget about it if they are visiting mine and doing BS stuff. I have no tolerence for that BS, and neither should you.

Sure..............but not to learn how to swoop. I think you should learn without these tools, then integrate them to refine your skills.

Not true. Jyro designs for New Zealand Aerosports. The last canopies he has designed was the VX. The JVX is changes made to that planform. Cimsa (Icarus Canopies) Has designed the Crossfire2 Safire2 Omni, Reserve, Neos, Unnamed 11 cell prototype. As well as other non released canopies. I stand corrected..............But I knew there was a tie in somewhere between Icarus and Daedelus. Either in Design or Ownership, or former designers or former ownership. Sounds like Jyro worked on the Icarus VX and the Daedelus JVX designs. Either way Daedelus does not just crank out untested new designs.

Yeah I see your point. i definately point things out at my DZ, but then again I have the respect of up jumpers at my DZ. I'm bold enough to mention stuff at a DZ where I'm visiting, when I know I'm right. If I get the FU response then I simply do what you do. Eliminate that DZ from my Favorites. It's a shame that some people or DZ's can't or won't take sound advise. I guess that's all that can be done is to advise where you can, and avoid the places that push back. I agree Aggie..........It's frustrating. But you can only do so much for folks that won't listen. Then you just have to look out for yourself. It's a Catch 22, but sometimes only an accident or fatality makes people learn.

I agree with Schimmel and Spizarko and all of their points here..... Additionally: The designer for Icarus is the same Designer for Daedelus. His designs are sound and have extensive test piloting performed before they are released. Daedelus focuses on High Performance Competetion Air Foils and Ground Launch Canopies. The Competition Wings have the same level of tweaks and enhancements as PD's or Precisions Competition Models. Icarus focuses on the long standing brand names and produces some competiong models (The older FX and VX) and allot of moderate wings (Safire & Crossfire). Sail Cloth Vs Zero-P does give you some performance gains but only if you are a skilled pilot. Otherwise there is little to no advantage. But the other clear benefits of Sail Cloth over Zero P, is longevity. Sail Cloth is less resistent to UV Rays and wear. I'd personally like to see more history to prove the less wear claim, but I agree with the logic. It's Line Trim and Airfoil Design that truely impact , the performance of a canopy.......Not Zero-P vs Sail Cloth. All that said.............The GLS XF is basicaly the next generation of Crossfire, with a competition Lineset, and hybrid Zero-P and Sail Cloth topskin construction. It is meant to bridge the gap between Non-Cross Braced and Cross Braced canopies. It falls in line with the Katana. Hope that is useful information. Regards,

I DONT Recomend anyone start Ground Launching without some formal training. It is basically an advanced form of Swooping, and even highly experienced Swoopers should seek instruction for how to safely Ground Launch and Fly a Canopy, in this manner. Anyone interested should seek the advice and instruction of Profoessional Ground Launching Schools. Not to rag on anyone, but I don't think that someone with 174 Jumps or Ground Launches or combo of both is experienced enough to advise safely on this discipline. I would steer you to the professionals so you can get their advise. I know that the Moderators hate seing Jim Slatons Links Posted, but I'm going to post it here for safety's sake. Please go here for safe advise and professional instruction for Ground Launching. Also Google the topic for other sound sources. http://www.bladerunning.com/trainingcenter.htm Regards,

I agree with Diablo.................Swooping is not a right and the Swooper needs to make the call on when it's safe to make a high performance landing and when to bail. The lower slower canopy always has the right of way. Always. Sometimes you just have to land in a boring fashion. There have been many times when I have decided to bail on my swoop. Congested landing area's, a spiraling idiot, other swoopers cutting me off, etc.... That being said...........I'll always approach someone who is wrong and politely point out what they did, explaing to them how wing loadings work and ask politely that they not interfere with the more experienced canopy pilots. I'll also ask the DZO (If I'm visiting) if they mind letting me exit first with a crosswind jumprun, since my wingloading is 2.1:1. I usually am accomodated. But hey sometimes it doesn't work out so I don't get to Swoop that day. And I usually don't jump at DZ's that won't accomodate what I want to do. So I do have choices.

Ahhhh Shit.........See you spent all that time demo'ing and now there's a new canopy out in that category. Now theres the GLS XF based on the XF2.....

Better?

Sorry had to re-attach smaller pics

Okay here's some pictures from one of our last Jive Jam Events.

Wow this shot gave me the illusion that you are really close to the ground. The way those clouds looked in the background. Even though I know its at altitude. Made me uneasy. Weird huh.

Nice Footaage............Use whatever music you want, It's your video.

Yeah Ray Ferrel owns Flite Suite, he is a great guy. I jumped Flite Suites before my Team got the Freakin Suit sponsorship. They are good suits, had mine for many years, and both held up great. But they are allot more expensive than Freakin Suits. And I don't think the quality is necessarily better.