GLIDEANGLE

Psycho pack!!! This will get you STARTED. http://www.precision.aero/packing/mvc-002v.mpg Chat with a rigger about this. Have fun!!! The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Info here: http://www.paraloft.com/Riggers_course.htm The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Here is timely and interesting reading on this topic from the National Transportation Safety Board. http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/news/NTSB-USPASafetyRestraints.pdf The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

This document should be your friend: USPA Skydiver's Information Manual It can be found here: http://www.uspa.org/SIM.aspx It will not answer all of your questions on this topic, but it will address a lot of them. It is an important and useful reference for LOTS and LOTS of skydiving questions. Read it! Keep it handy! The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Trust me... I jump out of planes plenty. I readily sign DZ waviers. I find it facinating how this thread has migrated. My question was about the behavior of DZOs. Most of the replies have diverged from that question. perhaps I should rephrase my question: "If DZ liability waviers were magicly made invalid in the US, how would DZOs change thier operations to respond?" I will save you the time to type the "Most would go out of business the very next day" reply. Let's assume that some would stay open. How would they change to diminsh the risks that they and thier customers face? The follow-on question of course becomes... "So what are the obstacles to making those risk reduction changes NOW?" The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Consider becoming a rigger. It does not require you to have a set # of jumps and it can provide "lousy weather" source of income. Yes, I know you are tired of packing. Rigging is WAY more than just packing. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

The DZ Release of Liability Wavier is ubiquitous at US DZs. I can’t help but wonder if they are truly helping the sport by making DZ operations possible, or if they hurt the sport my removing incentives for DZs to provide the safest equipment, service, and training. I note with interest that in the sport skydiving industry, it seems that ONLY the DZs demand that their sport customers sign waivers. Yes, tandem gear manufacturers may require waivers, but I am referring to the sport customers, not the tandem tourists. Manufacturers of sport canopies, sport harness/containers, and AADs all are able to operate profitably without customer waivers despite their obvious risk exposure. How might the waivers be hurting the sport? Well, by providing a degree of protection to the DZ from suits, some of the incentive to provide the best and safest equipment, service, and training is removed. For example, -- the National Transportation Safety Board is concerned about the quality of the aircraft and the pilots being used by some DZs (http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2008/080916.html ). -- Best that I can tell, there are damned few (if any) civilian DZs using computer simulation with hanging harness and virtual reality for canopy control in FJCs (even though this product is available http://www.sportparasim.com/). -- Some DZs have weak or absent structured instruction between the end of AFF and the A-license. -- Some DZs put multiple students on the same radio frequency on the same load. This creates the deadly potential of giving instructions to a student which are mistakenly followed by another student…which could be deadly. -- I could go on and on…. If the DZs were less insulated from liability claims, I bet that they would try harder to leave no stone unturned to provide safe equipment, service, and training. Yes, I know that a DZ has assets which would be attractive as a deep pocket for suits. However, I suspect that there are ways to compartmentalize the ownership of assets to make them collectively less vulnerable. I think that the DZs started down this path long enough ago, that most of us don’t remember a time before liability waivers, and therefore don’t question the negative effect of the wavier on the sport that so many of us love. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Don't forget the USPA Skydiver's Information Manual. At this link you can view it online (HTML), or download it for FREE (pdf ), or buy a hard copy: http://www.uspa.org/SIM.aspx The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Add to your list resistance to microbal growth... That is why your nylon reserve can go 120 (soon to be 180 days) between repacks in the USA. Silk is not so lucky, although it has many of the desirable characteristics you listed. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Sky dude's answers are good. Regarding exit order, the AFF student and instructor(s) are among the last to leave the plane. This is driven by the planned parachute deplyment altitude. The high openers (like AFF, & Tandems) are usually last... unless there are folks who will open immediately upon exiting at full altitude (full altitude hop&pop, Canopy Relative Work). Get thee to a dropzone!!!! The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Generally you are right. However, depending on aircraft design, aircraft attitude (tail up, tail down), and jumper behavior it is quite possible to strike the horizontal stabilizer when exiting. There was an experienced jumper who died that way in the USA earlier this year. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Great weekend:

Depends on what I am doing. Lazy H&P... no problem. Jump involving new or difficult or scary things...I damn sure hope my HR goes up a bit! Sometimes now I marvel that I don't feel that way. It was more logical that I should be upset. Being cool about it seems goofy. Don't know. Mine never gave me a moment of trouble. Of course, I didn't start jumping until I was 50 years old! Hopefully never. There are so many facets to this sport, that I hope to always be learning something new. Yes, I have been surprised that some skills that used to baffle me are now second nature... but I have new challenging skills on my task list. WTF? Hmmm.... If you mean the goofy mistakes that cause folks to poke fun at you during the video review, that will pass before you know it. If you mean nerves about hurting youself under canopy, that can come and go depending on the conditions and the quality of your decisions. I seem to recollect yelling "Oh S@#T!!!" on final last night (IN THE DARK) when I realized that I was lower than I thought, that I had gone too far downwind, and that there was a really good chance that my landing point was occupied by parked autombiles. What was really funny was that I later learned that the folks on the ground heard my yelling and got a chuckle out of it. (I missed the parked cars and landed inelegantly but safely.) I try really hard to not pick on noobs. However, the experienced jumpers are fair game (as am I!). The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

1. Bravo to you for having the insight to ask this important question! 2. The above refrenced article is great. 3. I was a student not so long ago. Coached jumps are a huge help. I was lucky to be at a DZ which uses the Skydive University curicullum and teaching methods. The difference that coaching jumps made for me is hard to describe. 4. I would argue that the learning challenges of these jumps are GREATER than the challenges of the AFF jumps. 5. Many students don't get their A-license at 25 jumps because they lack the accuracy jumps. Be sure to put attention into that task early. 6. In my opinion, high quality coach jumps are a BARGAIN. They may look expensive, but they can accelerate your learning so much that in the long run they are a bargain. 7. Canopy control courses can be a life-saver! Remember that poor canopy flight is a leading cause of death and THE leading cause of injury in this sport. 8. Practice flat (braked) turns until you can do them without thinking. Without a doubt, flat turns have kept me out of the hospital. I have done some stupid things, and flat turns have saved me! 9. Jump Safely, have fun. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

I trust my reserve MORE than my main: - Reserve got a detailed inspection before being packed. - Most riggers have zero-tolerance for wear/flaws in the reserve system. - Reserve is designed and packed for reliability rather than performance (see billvon's comment above about his boring reserve). I suggest that you see if your rigger will let you watch your reserve being inspected and packed. Fully understanding your reserve will likely increase your confidence. Watching a full inspection and packing that big reserve into that tiny freebag will help you understand why reserve re-packs cost so much. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Well.... whomever is pounced upon will be lucky... or perhaps get lucky! The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Can't offer any opinon about "North Texas skydiving center" as I have never been there. Skydive Dallas is my home DZ. Great place, great staff, great planes, great community of jumpers, lots of cool stuff going on. Many world record holders jump there (World Team 2006). If you visit, ask around for the guy with the really ugly "Birth Control Glasses" and I will be happy to give you a tour. This Saturday a gang of experienced jumpers will attempt to build an 8 person formation in freefall during NIGHTTIME. It should be a grand time! If you are a dog person ... be sure to meet Lexy, and ask if Chip, LuLu, or Katy are there. All are quite promiscuous with free kisses! The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

I teach full time as a prof too. If, by comfortable, you mean "safe". I felt safe with all. (In fact one of the grumpier was one who I felt the safest with). If, by comfortable, you mean "at ease". Sure there were differences. However, the one who at first really put me off... turned out to be a great resource and did my check jumps for both "self supervision" and my "A" license. He took me on a fun jump very early in my career which was the first time that I really turned some points and felt like a skydiver. Actually, I was reminded of a lot of important teaching skills by watching my very skilled skydiving instructors. I have found that I am a better teacher for the experience of being a total novice and learning a new skill. It was time well spent on many levels. Stay safe, have fun.

Let's keep this real, real simple. Dropzones are private businesses. The owners are under no obligation to do business with anyone (provided they stay within any discrimination laws). No one can force a drop zone operator to accept a waiver for a minor. This is true even if the law ALLOWS a parent to sign a wavier for a minor. It is just a business decision... You are welcome to shop around to find a dropzone that will accept a wavier for a minor. Case law is irrelevant. If the dropzone operator doesn't want to take on the risk... the matter is settled. You can take your business eleswhere. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Shiner Bock please. The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Breathe, Relax, Smile!!! Many of us struggled at various points in our progression as students. This isn't a race... how many jumps we need to master a skill is less relevant than the fact that we are safe and having fun. Breathe, Relax, Smile!!! The most absurd and most valuable advice I got about learning freefall skiills was to RELAX. The more relaxed I am the better I fly.... It can be hard to relax when it seems like performance is so important and demanding. Perhaps your instructors have suggestions about how to relax in the plane. Breathe, Relax, Smile!!! I really struggled with some skills, but with perseverence on my part and infinite patience on the part of my coach... I got through it! Breathe, Relax, Smile!!! Stay safe, have fun. Breathe, Relax, Smile!!! The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

I am fortunate that my wife has excessive faith that my AAD will keep me safe from all skydiving hazards. I am not about to help her understand the truth of the matter. (AADs are great but there are lots of ways to die or get injured that AADs can't prevent). If I am happy, she is happy. I am fortunate that many years ago I bought a lot of life insurance --- long before I became a skydiver. So maybe she sees a silver lining in skydiving? Just kidding! The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Try this for more info about IAD training. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3042672#3042672 The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

I read your post last night and didn't respond, cuz I wanted to sleep on it and not give you a knee jerk reply filled with unkind words. The physics of this matter have been explained above. if it is unclear... discuss with your instructor. The much more important matter is your need to develop an understanding of the risk that we pose to each other in freefall and flight. The risks of skydiving extend beyond the obvious ... no canopy, or bad landing. When we jump together we create the opportunity for both great fun... and injury/death. It is critical that we work hard to NOT pose a risk to each other when jumping. The list of hazards is long and best explained by your instructor. You will quickly learn that the behavior of every jumper is being assessed and graded by other jumpers all the time. People make judgements about who they will jump with or NOT jump with based on that assessment of behavior. If you have poor skills, or worse... a poor attitude about safety... you will soon find that you are not invited on some of the coolest jumps. I am a low timer myself and have made MANY mistakes (mostly a risk to ME, but occasionally a risk to others .... (sorry about that kick in the head Larry)). Nonetheless, there are jumpers that I am wary of. Some I don't like to do RW with, others I don't even like to be on the plane with! Attitude is critical! So is developing a solid set of skills that can keep you and your fellow jumpers safe. I bet that you are saying "how bad can it be?" Here are just a few examples.... Freefall... A teammate of mine has video of a jump that he was on where a headdown jumper drifted into a belly down formation and collided with a jumper at great speed. It was a miracle that only ribs were broken. Deployment... I was at a boogie this summer when two jumpers were in proximity at deployment time. One was high and one was low. The high guy punched through the low guy's canopy. Once again... a miracle that no people were hurt (the canopy was killed). Under Canopy.... In recent years there has been a very tragic series of low-altitude collisions between jumpers under canopy resulting in several deaths. In each of these examples, the behavior of one (or both) skydivers affected the safety of others. For the vast majority of jumps.... we need to keep both ourselves..... AND OTHER JUMPERS... safe. Unless you are on the plane alone, and in the sky alone, your actions can seriously affect the safety of the other jumpers around you (and vice-versa). Remember... If all participants are walking on the ground after a skydive.... it was a good skydive. Anything more is just gravy! In closing... You get an "Atta-Boy" for at least ASKING about this stupid idea, rather than just doing it!!!! Good Luck, Keep learning! The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

Are there any practitioners of the ancient art of classic accuracy in Texas? I would love to visit, watch, and learn. My accuracy is terrible, and I have found that getting truly helpful coaching on accuracy isn't easy. Perhaps if I hang out with accuracy folks rather than swoopers... I can learn what I need to meet that damn "2 meters x 25 landings" standard for my C license. Thanks!