AndyMan

I think my biggest problem with this thread is the idea that it's either or. Nobody could possibly blame a student for wanting to excel at a sport they'd love. Nobody could possibly blame that student for being willing to pay for someone elses slot, if that other person's a good coach. The problem that I had with coaching was the only alternative for the young jumper. When I showed up at an unnamed DropZone in Ohio, my biggest frustration was showing up at a new DZ and not being able to find someone to jump with (that actually had skill) without paying for it. Ultimately I saw that this DZ had a coach program that was top notch. I figured that the instruction was so good that It'd be cheaper to pay someone then figure it out with other novices. I believe this, even in hindsight. Still, my one complaint of this DZ was the dificulty in finding good people to jump with, without paying their slot. Then I moved to Chicago, someone recomended Chicagoland. (Hinckley) Hinckley had a good freefly coach program, and all of the fun jumpers are more then willing to do jumps with the novices. Then I went to Skydive Chicago, where they take their new students, put points them towards "team funnel" - a loosely organized group of mentors who organize and coach for free. I presume SDC has people I could pay if I wanted to... I like this the best. I like doing a few jumps with Team Funnel when I'm at SDC. I like doing two ways at Hinckley when I'm there. I also will be hooking up with Brandon of MonkeyClaw when he shows up. _Am

I thought it was a school bus with wings? Sorry, it's the scotch... _Am

There are quite a few good skydivers at Chicago area DZ's who constantly warn me to avoid a specific Chicago area DZ. Despite their advice, I continue to occaisionally frequent this DZ. This thread is firmly reinforcing my belief that "good" and "trusted" skydivers are entirely the wrong person to turn to for the appriasal of Drop Zone and aircraft safety. Far too often these "experts" are only rumour mongers, and this thread is a great example of how these rumours circulate. What started out as jumper speculating that a plane ran out of fuel has turned into questioning the safety of what I'll presume is a good DZ. People need to be aware of what's going on around them. They need to make their own decisions. More importantly, they need to question the safety of each drop zone they visit, not just the one's that some self appointed "expert" fingered. When something seems wrong but they aren't sure, they need to turn to trusted officials to explain. These officials can be Drop Zone Owners, Safety and Training Officers, the USPA, or the FAA. So far in this thread we haven't heard from any of these individuals. In fact, I don't believe we've heard from anyone who actually knows what's happened. As an anecdote, I have never heard a single bad word about that specific Chicago area DZ from it's compeditor's DZO's. In fact one of these competing DZO's told me quite plainly "I would trust any Chicago DZ to throw my mother out of their planes. That's telling. Anyways, I digress. I would love to find out what happened in the 40 way attempt. I'm not going to take the word of Average Jumper that the plane ran out of fuel. I'll wait for the report in Parachutist. I'll question my DZO next time I'm out. Another great resource for aircraft safety is the NTSB. They posts incident reports of Accidents at http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp. Fortunately this incident was not serious enough to warant a report. Do a search for skydiving and see what comes up...

Alan, That was perfectly fair. I did not want to be overly technical in my answer, which in hindsight was a bad idea. My line of thought was that since the quesion was very basic, a less technical answer was appropriate. _Am

Yup. Airtec is adamant that the 4 and 8 year checks are due 4 and 8 years after Date of Manufacture, not 4 years after the last check. Sorry dude... _Am

Cool. Is it simply a packing tool, one which you leave on the ground when done, or does it get rolled into the pack job? If so, how does it attach so you don't lose it on deployment? Sounds interesting... Just another of those useful tools that got thrown away long ago. I think my new PD canopy might benefit from one!

Last 300 jumps? Yeah right. Not on the first battery set. L&B truely does have top notch service. This is just an example of why you MUST NOT RELY ON AUDIBLES. You must still use your visual alti, and you must still learn what the ground looks like at different alti's. _Am

I got about two monthes off my first battery, significantly longer off my second batteries, which I bought at the local Radio Shack. I think either L&B are going cheap on the first set of batteries, OR maybe the batteries suffer from sitting too long, OR suffer from the cold at altitude. Anyways, the Protrack does give warnings on the screen when the batteries are weak. I'm guessing tha since you didn't mention any, you haven't seen any? I've never had the protrack miss a jump... _Am

AAD is an Automatic Activation Device. AAD's will open your reserver (or sometimes your main if you set it up that way) if you pass through a certain altitude at terminal velocity. Cypres is a specific brand of AAD, made by Airtec in Germany. Cypres is by far the most common AAD because if it's reliability and trouble-free maintenance. The second most popular AAD is made by FXC. FXC's are much cheaper then Cypres, but the general consensus is that you get what you pay for. Most skydivers strongly recomend Cypres. _Am

I don't know if it's real, but Aerodyne shipped me a demo Diablo in one. I found it very dificult to use. The sliperiness made it more dificult to control the canopy while putting it into the bag. In addition, the bag was tearing at the seams. I had to have my rigger put some bar tacks into the seam of the bag. I don't recomend the Aerodyne ZP bag. _Am

This begs the question... Does anybody jump at a DZ with a noticiable Gay or African American population? Despite all the acceptance of alternative lifestyles (piercings, tatoos, bikers, etc) at DZ's, I've seen two African Americans do tandems, and I've never seen an openly gay person. _Am

I watch it religiously. It's one of the best drama's on TV. And no, I'm not gay. _Am

How about an "executive summary"? _Am

Yeah, but did you have any BOOBIES? _Am (sorry)

Dude, sounds like it's time to find a real DZ. There's more then enough killer EZ's out there, there's no reason to give your money to someone who abuses their customers like that. Yeah, I know - you're still a student. Got a logbook? Go somewhere else. _Am

heh, he said boobies! Ladies, don't try this at home. http://home01.wxs.nl/~bigwilly/picz/britneys_breasts.swf

Learning? Too late. Posting whore hall of fame, Baby! _Am

On the subject of movies, Black Hawk Down. Simply Incredible. _Am

Simply priceless. _Am

Ding! _Am

A hook knife is a toole to occupy your mind while you plummet to the ground... _Am

From: http://www.monkeyclaw.com/news.html

My story is that I started at a very small, very friendly drop zone. I didn't pay for coaching there, simply beause I couldn't pay for coaching there. The "coaching" was exactly as you describe, the experienced people took the less experienced people and worked with them, first one on one, later in groups. Then I left the small DZ and when to a big DZ, where they had Skydive University. It also was much more dificult to get the more advanced people to jump with me. At first I balked at paying for coach jumps. The whole concept offended me. I longed for that small friendly DZ where I could just go jump. As I was stewing, I was also watching. I slowly started to appreciate that coaching wasn't just paying people to jump with me. There was serious on the ground instruction, all through the process. Eventually, I decided to give it a try, largely out of necesity. The short part is that once I signed up for Skydive University I saw my skills progress at a rate I'd never seen. At a hundred jumps I was being invited on jumps I never would've imagined. I've now moved onto another ger DZ, and Brandon Park of MonkeyClaw is the resident freefly coach. Will I be buying coach jumps? You bet your ass I will. But I also love jumping with newbies... It's just so much fun. _Am

Only one thing to be said about that... Schwing! :P _Am