RiggerLee

How do you feel about being a test jumper? It's really hard to build up enough test jumps on a design before it goes to market. Keep in mind that there will be numerous iterations in the design over the course of it's development. All have to be tested and when you move on to the next change it all starts over again. So when they say that they have put x0000 test jumps on this canopy that may be split over x0 iteration of the design. Some of those changes are small, some not. And then there are all the different sizes. The honest truth is that no manufacturer, even PD, can really afford to truly adiquitely test their designs prior to release. Until it's out in the wild with thousands of people jumping it every weekend you're not really going to know the full story on it. If you buy a new canopy design you are a test jumper. I for one enjoy shit like that. If this makes you uncomfortable do not buy a canopy that has been on the market for less then 24 months. In this case with such a small/new manufacturer selling to such a small customer base, Brazil vs. America, it will take even longer and when they make changes, not uncommon, the real clock starts over again. The designs of such a small company may never truly mature at least not for years. Having said all of this. I would be first in line, but that's me. I would be volunteering to help with their test program before they ever went to market. I'm not saying you shouldn't consider their canopies. I'm just saying, realize what you are getting into. And if you want to have a local manufacturer you need to support them. That includes buying and jumping their prototypes. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

That would be called CRW. And yes you can do that. The front risers carry most of the load and we would fly front riser trim flying wings an extended period of time on the big diamonds. There are tricks to how you do it... it also helps to have large forearms. The rear risers are much easier to pull. You can pull them with no problem. But the best way is to reach up and, kind of twist your arms around them. You reach up to the inside rather then the out side and kind of twist your forearm. You can put a couple of inches of trim into the riser with very little effort. Your arm is strong that way and you have advantage. You can hold that forever. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I think the only time you might see that is with highly loaded very steep trimmed canopies. Pulling on the rear risers, kinda sorta, trims the canopy flatter. In theory it's flattening the trim of the canopy and improving the glide with out decreasing your speed as much as riding in deep breaks. You're actually distorting the canopy quite a bit if you pull to far on the rear riser so if you're trying this be subtle, an inch or two. With a really highly loaded canopy that is penetrating into the wind you might improve your landing point by trimming the canopy slightly flatter. You might see this with the really steep ground hungry canopies. A lot of the swooping canopies are very steep and very ground hungry with high decent rates and are well bellow best glide angle. As to the second half of his comment, that is exactly right and it goes double for small aggressive canopies. If you are long and running down wind to get back to the DZ in high wind you are much better off reducing your decent rate as far as you can and letting the wind carry you back. This is doubly true for small ground hungry canopies. Their glide is shit. The only chance they have to make it back is to hang in breaks reducing their decent rate as far as possible to let the wind help them back. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I used to see things like this and just assumed that it was a joke. I couldn't imagine that some one could be so disconnected from reality. Until one of these guys wondered into the shop one day. He had flown in with his friend who was a pilot. I'm sure there are some stories there. His friend just kept shaking his head. He had had no more luck educating him over the years then any one else. Nice guy but he was a no shit flat earther. Had an answer for every thing. We were standing next to a 34 ft long rocket and he was explaining how it's all a hoax. It was surreal. I swear, we need some Darwinism to clear some of the dead wood out of the species. I don't know what we're becoming. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

One of the major rigger in the area refuses to pack canopies older then twenty years. If it's old enough to drink he wont pack it. I can understand him taking a hard line on this because I know who some of his costumers are. He deals with a lot of older pilot rigs and honestly we've been letting them scrape by way too long on some of those. So he put his foot down and made them start replacing canopies. And honestly, that was a good thing on some of those rigs. I'm easier going and prefer to make the judgement based on it's condition. It's hard to tell these guys that their shit is shit and grounded. Somebody packed it before. It's been good for the last fifty years. What do you mean you wont pack it? So although it's harsh and often unfounded I can understand him drawing a hard line. It also doesn't hurt that he's a gear dealer. And although he's made a lot of sales off this I'd like to think that that wasn't his motivation. I honestly think he just got sick of arguing with crusty old pilots. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

So no more royalties? https://www.epictv.com/media/podcast/fastest-bra-removal-cutaway-system-%7C-base-girl-ep-4/252315 Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

In regards to LaBlanks lecture on elliptical wings and plane forms. The first thing you have to understand is that the theoretical optimum of an elliptical wing is actually a theoretical optimization of an elliptical lift distribution span wise across the wing. This is to reduce the induced drag component of the wing to a min. In theory the most efficient way to do that is through the area of the wing. He touches on all the trade offs in his lecture. As to the difference in taper in the leading vs the trailing edge. What he fails to mention in relation tto that is the fact that the aerodynamic center of the wing is not at the center of the cord. This is why you see a lot of wings, like the spit fire, with greater taper on the leading edge. When you model an aircraft, this is kind of an old school discrription but very relevant to WWII, you look at locations of CG, wing AC, and tail AC. From this comes your basic stability. Looking closer at your wing. you examine it as a span wise line through the aerodynamic center of each wing section. Each wing section can be reduced to it's lift and drag and moment acting through the point of it's aerodynamic center. Generally a point 1/4 of the way back along the cord line. So you talk about the 1/4 cord point of that wing station. So let's design a wing. I take a straight line and and decide how big and how long and in this case how elliptical I want the wing to be. That gives me a span width and cord of the wing. That plugs into all of my stability equations and I can design the plane. Fine. So I go to build it. Well the 1/4 cord point of each rib arranged in a straight line gives you a wing with 3 times as much taper on the trailing edge then on the front. You get a Spit Fire wing. That is what an elliptical wing looks like. It doesn't have to be this way. You can build the wing symmetrically. But what you are doing is warping the wing. Reducing it to the span wise line of lift, that line is now bowed. Now you can do some interesting things with this. It could affect where the center of lift is for example, under certain conditions. Let say in a side slip. Is the wing is swept back, which is kind of what we are talking about, then you will have more lift on one wing then on the other. This can affect the yaw/roll coupling. It affects how the aircraft turns and behaves dynamically in yaw and roll. Same thing in a canopy. Even a bit more so. Keep in mind that the wing of a canopy wants to sit above your head stable at one point. But if you think about it each section of the canopy wants to sit above your head at it's own point based on it's own angle of attack which is dependent on induced drag of the wing and its individual effective angle of attack. Also keep in mind that a canopy is totally dependent on it's yaw pitch relation ship to roll into a turn. I've talked to people trying to model canopy dynamics and they have had at most moderate success. They've been hard pressed to get a model that matches even the most basic perturbation in a canopy. So their model in theory looks great. They are getting pretty good actual test data now when they jump it but the two don't match up. So it's still kind of in the voodoo phase. Lots of test data, lots of experience. They know what the variables are and pretty much what they do but to try a new design they pretty much have to build it. I don't know any one successfully predicting the dynamic behavior of there designs by computer model prior to test jumping the way we can with a rigid air frame. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

First off, rarely have I seen some one injured by jumping too large of a canopy. That's not an absolute statement but skip the esoteric arguments about swooping and longer vs shorter recovery arcs or other nonsense where people are arguing for the safety of a smaller canopy over a larger one. I'm a small guy. I started jumping when canopies were a lot bigger then they are now. You don't know shit about backing up in wind. The smallest canopy we had in a student rig was a 288 Manta. I was 135 lb at the time. Here's the real truth. Backing up is not that big a deal. Your canopy can fly in a cone. From where ever you are in the sky your canopy can fly to any point in this cone radiating out from the point you are at. We're skipping turning radius and things like that. I'm talking basic flight planing. The angle of that cone, that's your glide angle. Now when the wind blows, that cone leans to one side. Imagine taking the center line of the cone and moving it from right below you and pulling it down wind. A horizontal slice through the cone will still be a circle but the center of that circle is along this wind line. So you can still fly 20 mph through the air but the wind is backing you up 10 mph so one side of your cone looks a lot steeper then the other. These speed just add/subtract from each other. You can still fly in just as large of a cone as you always could. You have just as much control as you had before but the cone that you can fly in from that point in the sky is skewed along the wind line. If there was no wind you would still be limited by this same cone. You can't out fly your glide angle. The cone is no smaller then before. It's just slanted along the wind line. Once you understand this there is no or little difference in flying in wind. Backing up simply means that the wind is faster then the airspeed of your canopy. One side of the cone now has a negative slope. The cone is just as large. You still have just as many options as before, they are just behind or down wind of you if you prefer. None of this is a problem. The spot is just longer. And the spot is really no more critical, it's just in a different place. Wing loading. Does not, for the most part, change the slope of the cone. Same glide angle, you just fly faster. That higher descent rate means that the wind pulls the center line of your cone less. You can penetrate better in to a slightly higher wind. This is all fine in theory. There is one real difference in flying with wind. There is one fact that becomes important and is affected by canopy size. You don't have to fly in full flight. You can slow the decent of your canopy. depends on the canopy, but it really doesn't improve your glide angle that much, in deep breaks your glide angle goes down, but you can slow the descent rate enough for that to become dominant in high winds. YOu can slow your decent rate enough that you can let the wind carry you back along the wind line from long spots. The cone is now stretched into an ellipse reaching out to the down wind. So in a since you have more options in wind then you have on a calm day. Spots are actually much more forgiving and the stronger the wind the more this is true. Larger canopies can do this way better then small hot rods. That ability also allows you to hang above the other canopies and vertically stage, delay your landing while other smaller canopies fly down and land to reduce the level of traffic you are flying in. So backing up is not a big deal. There are other thing that you should be much more aware of and concerned about in wind. The wind speed isn't as bad as the gust.The differences between the high and the low are more important and more dangerous then the average wind speed. Say your canopy fly's at 20 mph and stalls at 10 mph. I'm just pulling those numbers out of my ass so don't put any thing on them. If the wind were 20 mph gusting to 30 mph then each gust would, when it dies take you almost to your stall point. So under canopy the wind gust pushes you backwards, you feel the canopy pull backwards and move behind you then the gust dies and so does your airspeed and the canopy seems to surge forwards in front of you. Gust are not instantaneous but they can be a big deal for slow flying, low wing loading air craft, Ultra lights, Paragliders, and Parachutes are prime examples. This is one example where a higher wing loading/ smaller canopy can be advantageous. With their higher speed the gust is less of a factor. It's a smaller percentage of their over all speed. Answer, Keep the canopy flying fast. Don't fly in half breaks. Don't slow modern canopies down. They like the pressurization. The other thing you should be scared of in wind is turbulence. Rotors coming off a building, like a hanger, can go a LONG way down wind. They are killers. This is some thing you should be afraid of. Be scared. You don't know me but when I tell you to be scared you'd better be wearing diapers. The proper reaction is to piss your self. Seriously, this is what to be afraid of, not backing up. Look for clean air. I don't care how far you have to land off or how far you have to walk. Look for clean air and long wind lines. this will save your life. So that's the best explanation and advice I can give you with out busting out math on you. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Just got back into town and was catching up when I saw this thread. As to it being out dated. I was base jumping my Pegasus on the trip. I think their is more to it then just direct vs flair. Some of the early canopies had a vertical tape rather then v reinforcing the rib or no tape at all. Strong actually tried cutting ribs on the bias and sewing a vertical tape to it allowing the fibers to convey the load to that tape. So their were big changes to the quality of the airfoil as canopies evolved. A good example was the Raven. One of the big changes from the Raven to the Super Raven was the change from one vertical tape to a V. They also made some panel changes. But there is a notable difference in performance. If you look down on them from above the old airfoil is much bumpier then the later one. Dijango/glide path/flight concepts went through similar changes. The Peg had one vertical tape. Early glide path flares were just attached to the bottom and could pull lose. Later glide path or flight concepts canopies, I don't recall when they made the change, The flare is sewn onto the bottom of the rib but that tape is continuous. It forms a continuous V on the rib and comes down and makes the attachment point. Later they played with a shorter flair with a wider tape angle. But the bottom line is that, like other companies, as they got better support on their rib their air foils became smoother. And the canopies flew better. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

As the Prop Turns. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

What is it? Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

That was what I thought but then he started pulling out all this math on hit probability with area effect weapons and round count per kill, etc. He was making a pretty good argument based on rate of fire vs. hit probability for aimed vs unaimed fire. He was basically saying that even though his rate of fire was, I'll just make up numbers, 6 times higher, that the hit probability is so much lower that the over all number of casualties was lower. And that's with a proper gun. The groupings, control ability, with a bump stocks is so bad that at 300+ yards their really is no aiming, even less then with a normal full auto weapon. By the way we were just doing some test on control ability with some comp/flash suppressors that we are working on. So this morning we were doing slow motion filming of muzzle deflection firing our class 3 AR full auto. Set up right it really can be very control able. In comparison a bump stock, I owned two and sold them at a gun show last weekend, is not very control able. You can not hold a group tight firing a bump stock. So I maintained that with such a tightly packed target aiming was less relevant but he made a good argument based on real numbers for aimed fire and that he was an idiot for using a bump stock. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I am curious. Has any one seen a breakdown on the injuries? Last I heard 59 people died. Did they all die from bullet wounds? I would expect there to be deaths from trampling injuries in a large crowd like that. Of the 500+ injuries treated, How many of them were GSW? I was talking to a friend the other night and he was arguing that the bump stock(s) saved lives. That if he had fired a normal rifle with a scope and just did aimed fire that he would have killed more people. I was arguing that it was a tight packed crowd and aiming was irrelevant. Apparently the army has done studies and has found that their is a remarkable amount of empty space in a crowd or group of men. These are question that were addressed when they first started studying machine gun fire from WWI onward. Their's actually math for area weapons like machine guns and rounds per kill. The numbers are way higher then you would think, number of rounds per each kill. To be clear. Regardless of how exactly they died I do still attribute their deaths to him. Firing into a crowd is a terror technique just like yelling "FIRE!" in a theater. I'm just curious what the break down was. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Real or not it certainly made for a good movie. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

It's all about what's in your gun safe. My 401k is doing just fine.

SO I just saw a blurb about an article that was written. Basically it's about the hypocrisy of the left. The left wants to get rid of private gun ownership in this country. No private citizen needs to own weapons of war like these guns. The police will protect us. Donald trump is a fascist dictator. The Police are raciest and shoot blacks and minorities. So the solution is to concentrate all power in the hands of Donald Trump, the military, and police. Only the police will have guns. No blacks or minorities will be allowed to have guns or defend them selves. All power to do what ever he wants will be given to our dictator Donald Trump. Guaranteeing a leneage of control by this family. At least eight years under Donald, that's if he does not abolish the amendment limiting him to two terms. To be followed ether by Junior or Ivanka. I think she wants the power. By then The fascism should be solid grip on the nation for all time. So all of this was kind of tung in cheek but it is funny. I think it's rooted in the fact that they have still not realized that they have lost control of the government. They haven't come to grips with it yet. They just assume that the big government will always be their thing. Basically they have forgotten why the second amendment exist. It's actually there for a rather politically incorrect reason. The purpose of the second amendment is so the government can be over thrown. Sounds weird but it's true. The story of Paul Revere is the story of a gun grab by the government. The idea was to arrest a few head trouble makers and squash this little rebellion before it got off the ground. They had written orders to grab any gun or cannon they could find. With out them the uprising was over. And the revolutionaries were well aware of this. Years later they wrote the second amendment to insure that their decedents would never be caught off guard again. In principle it could be argued that the second amendment protects your right to own machine guns, hand guns, grenades, and tanks. It was never intended to protect hunting rifles, or sporting guns. And it was intended that these arms remain with the citizenry not under the control of the government. It was the government that they were intended to be used against. They are intended to protect blacks, minorities, the down trodden so that they should never fear their government. This is not the PC view put forward in polite society but it's true. It's just funny that the left, self proclaimed defenders of the oppressed victims of the country, side with the oppressors in disarming and holding down their victims that they are sworn to protect. So they oppose the second amendment in support of the fascist government that they abhor. Just steering shit. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

There are plenty of reasons to own guns. Setting the fun aside, I'll bet the value of my gun safe has a better return then most 401k's. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Another one of those stupid/dangerous gizmos. Not full automatic. Some thing like that would be perfectly legal just a profoundly bad ideas. It just kind of highlights the silliness of gun laws. The fastest way to create a demand for some thing? Try to out law it. No one would ever want some thing like that if they had ever burned up ammunition in a full auto gun. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

"Your argument that more access to fully automatic weapons would create less demand for bump stocks is true as far as that goes. But it would only make the problem worse. Obviously. " Actually it would significantly reduce the popularity of machine guns. Before 82 or when ever it was, machine guns were not that big a deal. They were not expensive. They were not an investment. And they were a pain in the ass. The paperwork is a pain and if you want to know the truth they lose their charm real fast. You blow through ammo quite fast. It's great the first time. Then you have to buy another brick of ammo... after the third time you pretty much never shoot it again. Then you resale the fucking thing. It was the closing of the transferable registry that created this huge demand and market. And transferable machine guns NEVER or almost never are used in crimes. So the NFA was passed back in the 30's. So like 80 years ago. Do you know how many crimes have been committed with transferable machine guns in that 80 years? I actually would need to look this up, but for a long time it was 1. That's ONE as in singular. I thing there has now been a second crime committed with a registered transferable machine gun. Some one told me there had been a second. So if that law in the 80's had never been passed. Interest in machine guns would have never grown. No one would have ever had any motivation to create any of these fucked up triggers or stocks and some of them are pretty fucked up. They really are useless and some dangerous, not controllable, etc. There is a trigger where it fires when you pull the trigger and it fires again when you let go. So you fire one shot and your stuck. The gun is going to fire again whether you want it to or not when you let go. It's dangerous. I can't believe they make this. And I'm a gun guy. Maybe you could try to turn the safety on while you try to hold the trigger down... I don't know. Non of this stupid red neck shit existed before the law in the 80's. Bad news is there is no going back. All the class three guys will never ever let you repeal that law. They have their life savings tied up in over priced transferable guns. Like 10 or 20 times the value. They fuck up good when they passed that law. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Here we go again. There was another thread on this not to long ago. Sorry. Don't recall the title. Yes you can fly flags like this. They are generally packed on the bottom of the canopy. Pack volume is huge. Need a larger slow canopy that can tolerate that amount of drag on it. Very different from hanging a flag below. Deployment more complicated. If you really want to do this call Red Pain at Flight Concepts International in Atlanta GA. Have him build a system for you. I'll tell you right now, it's easier to carry the flag in a belly mount and deploy it below you with a weighted leading edge. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

I did read it and they admit that it does not prove a direct causality. As it happens the states are also divided along economic and rural lines. It's interesting but less then conclusive You'd almost have to filter the data to compare along income brackets for example. Europe and the rest of the world is held up as this grand example of what we should do here in this country. Suicide rates with guns are under discussion. I'm simply saying that the US is on par with other developed countries in terms of suicide rates. If access to firearms was truly a driving factor then based on the Harvard study then you would expect other countries with no access to guns, Japan as an example to have 45% fewer suicides per capita then the US. In fact all of the first world countries are pretty equal in that regard. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Suicide rates by country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate The US is not great. It's 48th world wide. It's kind of on par with a lot of the developed countries. US 12.6 vs. Europe 11.9. It's below Finland, Sweden, Belgium, Japan, and South Korea. Above France, Germany, Australia, Switzerland. The number of people that kill them selves per capita doesn't seem to relate to guns. So if more people in say Japan kill them selves then in the US with absolutely no access to guns how can suicides performed with fire arms in the US be blamed on the guns? They did find another way. So completely removing firearms from their society did not end or reduce the suicide rate in that country. Based on this I suggest that the suicides with fire arms should not be counted among gun deaths. That's 2/3 of the "gun deaths" on average in this country. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Seems up to date to me: Deadliest U.S. mass shootings, 1984-2017 By LOS ANGELES TIMES STAFF OCT. 2, 2017 5:26 P.M. Here are some of the most notable mass shootings in the U.S. in recent decades. Tags: Public place School Workplace Worship place OCTOBER 1, 2017 59 killed, more than 500 injured: Las Vegas More than 50 people were killed and at least 500 others injured when a gunman opened fire at a country music festival near the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino on the Las Vegas Strip, authorities said. Police said the suspect, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock, a resident of Mesquite, Nev., was was found dead after a SWAT team burst into the hotel room from which he was firing at the crowd. Read more » JUNE 5, 2017 5 killed: Orange County, Fla. A gunman fatally shoots five former co-workers at an awning company near Orlando, Fla., then kills himself shortly before police arrive, authorities say. John Robert Neumann Jr., 45, was fired from his job there nearly two months earlier. JAN. 6, 2017 5 killed, 6 injured: Fort Lauderdale, Fla. After taking a flight to Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport in Florida, a man retrieves a gun from his luggage in baggage claim, loads it and opens fire, killing five people near a baggage carousel and wounding six others. Dozens more are injured in the ensuing panic. Esteban Santiago, a 26-year-old Iraq war veteran from Anchorage, Alaska, has pleaded not guilty to 22 federal charges. Read more » SEPT. 23, 2016 5 killed: Burlington, Wash. A gunman enters the cosmetics area of a Macy’s store near Seattle and fatally shoots an employee and four shoppers at close range. Authorities say Arcan Cetin, a 20-year-old fast-food worker, used a semi-automatic Ruger .22 rifle that he stole from his stepfather’s closet. Cetin, facing five counts of first-degree murder, dies in jail the following April; authorities call it an apparent suicide. Read more » JUNE 14, 2017 3 killed: San Francisco A UPS driver kills three coworkers and then himself at their San Francisco package facility using a stolen assault-style pistol, according to police. Police said 38-year-old Jimmy Lam began shooting at an employee meeting and targeted specific coworkers. Read more » JUNE 12, 2016 49 killed, 58 injured in Orlando nightclub shooting The United States suffered the worst mass shooting in its modern history when 49 people were killed and 58 injured in Orlando, Fla., after a gunman stormed into a packed gay nightclub. The gunman was killed by a SWAT team after taking hostages at Pulse, a popular gay club. He was preliminarily identified as 29-year-old Omar Mateen. Read more » DEC. 2, 2015 14 killed, 22 injured: San Bernardino, Calif. (Marcus Yam / Los Angeles Times) Two assailants killed 14 people and wounded 22 others in a shooting at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino. The two attackers, who were married, were killed in a gun battle with police. They were U.S.-born Syed Rizwan Farook and Pakistan national Tashfeen Malik, and had an arsenal of ammunition and pipe bombs in their Redlands home. Read more » Tagged as Public place NOV. 29, 2015 3 killed, 9 injured: Colorado Springs, Colo. (David Zalubowski / Associated Press) A gunman entered a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colo., and started firing. Police named Robert Lewis Dear as the suspect in the attacks. Three people were killed — university police Officer Garrett Swasey, Iraq war veteran Ke’Arre M. Stewart and Jennifer Markovsky, who had accompanied friends to the clinic. Each was the parent of two children. Read more » Tagged as Public place OCT. 1, 2015 9 killed, 9 injured: Roseburg, Ore. (Rich Pedroncelli / Associated Press) Christopher Sean Harper-Mercer shot and killed eight fellow students and a teacher at Umpqua Community College. Authorities described Harper-Mercer, who recently had moved to Oregon from Southern California, as a “hate-filled” individual with anti-religion and white supremacist leanings who had long struggled with mental health issues. He owned 14 weapons, all purchased legally. Harper-Mercer, 26, killled himself after exchanging gunfire with deputies. Read more » Tagged as School JULY 16, 2015 5 killed, 3 injured: Chattanooga, Tenn. Photos of four slain Marines are placed at a makeshift memorial at a military recruiting center in Chattanooga Photos of four slain Marines are placed at a makeshift memorial at a military recruiting center in Chattanooga (Joe Raedle / Getty Images) A gunman opened fire on two military centers more than seven miles apart, killing four Marines and a Navy sailor. A man identified by federal authorities as Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeez, 24, sprayed dozens of bullets at a military recruiting center, then drove to a Navy-Marine training facility and opened fire again before he was killed. Read more » JUNE 18, 2015 9 killed: Charleston, S.C. Jessica Oliver leaves flowers on a memorial in front of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. Jessica Oliver leaves flowers on a memorial in front of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. (Getty Images) Dylann Storm Roof is charged with nine counts of murder and three counts of attempted murder in an attack that killed nine people at a historic black church in Charleston, S.C. Authorities say Roof, a suspected white supremacist, started firing on a group gathered at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church after first praying with them. He fled authorities before being arrested in North Carolina. Read more » Tagged as Worship place MAY 23, 2014 6 killed, 7 injured: Isla Vista, Calif. People participate in a memorial in People's Park in remembrance of those who were killed and injured by Elliot Rodger in Isla Vista on May 23, 2014. People participate in a memorial in People's Park in remembrance of those who were killed and injured by Elliot Rodger in Isla Vista on May 23, 2014. (Genaro Molina / Los Angeles Times) Elliot Rodger, 22, meticulously planned his deadly attack on the Isla Vista community for more than a year, spending thousands of dollars in order to arm and train himself to kill as many people as possible, according to a report released by the Santa Barbara County Sheriff’s Office. Rodger killed six people before shooting himself. Read more » Tagged as Public place APRIL 2, 2014 3 killed; 16 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas Members of the media wait outside Fort Hood for an official statement. Members of the media wait outside Fort Hood for an official statement. (Deborah Cannon / Austin American-Statesman/MCT) A gunman at Fort Hood, the scene of a deadly 2009 rampage, kills three people and injures 16 others, according to military officials. The gunman is dead at the scene. Read more » Tagged as Workplace SEPT. 16, 2013 12 killed, 3 injured: Washington, D.C. Law enforcement personnel respond to an attack on office workers at Washington Navy Yard on September 16, 2013. Law enforcement personnel respond to an attack on office workers at Washington Navy Yard on September 16, 2013. (MCT) Aaron Alexis, a Navy contractor and former Navy enlisted man, shoots and kills 12 people and engages police in a running firefight through the sprawling Washington Navy Yard. He is shot and killed by authorities. Authorities later reveal that he had an extensive Navy disciplinary record that included several unauthorized absences from duty, instances of insubordination and disorderly conduct, one instance of being absent without leave, and several failed inspections. He was still able to get a security clearance and purchase a rifle. Read more » Tagged as Workplace JUNE 7, 2013 5 killed: Santa Monica Santa Monica Police Sgt. Richard Lewis speaks about the replica weapons and zip guns found during a search of John Zawahri's house. Santa Monica Police Sgt. Richard Lewis speaks about the replica weapons and zip guns found during a search of John Zawahri's house. (Allen J. Schaben / Los Angeles Times) John Zawahri, an unemployed 23-year-old, kills five people in an attack that starts at his father’s home and ends at Santa Monica College, where he is fatally shot by police in the school’s library. Read more » Tagged as Public place DEC. 14, 2012 27 killed, one injured: Newtown, Conn. Responders gather at scene of a mass school shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. Responders gather at scene of a mass school shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School. (Mario Tama / Getty Images) A gunman forces his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn. and shoots and kills 20 first graders and six adults. The shooter, Adam Lanza, 20, kills himself at the scene. Lanza also killed his mother at the home they shared, prior to his shooting rampage. In emotional remarks from the White House, President Obama wiped away tears. “Our hearts are broken today,” the president said. Photos | Full coverage Read more » Tagged as School OCT. 21, 2012 3 killed, 4 injured: Brookfield, Wis. Rescue personnel arrive at the Azana Salon and Spa Rescue personnel arrive at the Azana Salon and Spa (Michael Sears / Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel) Radcliffe Haughton, a 45-year-old former Marine, walks into the Azana Salon and Spa where his estranged wife works and shoots and kills her and two other women, wounding four others. Witnesses say Haughton’s wife, Zina, calmly tried to protect coworkers and customers before she was killed. She had recently sought a restraining order saying her husband had threatened to throw acid in her face and set her on fire with gasoline. Haughton was found dead inside the salon of a self-inflicted gunshot. Read more » Tagged as Public place SEPT. 28, 2012 6 killed, 2 injured: Minneapolis, Minn. At a fatal shooting in the Bryn Mawr neighborhood of Minneapolis, Minnesota, people are moved to a safe area from the crime scene Sept. 27, 2012. At a fatal shooting in the Bryn Mawr neighborhood of Minneapolis, Minnesota, people are moved to a safe area from the crime scene Sept. 27, 2012. (Richard Tsong–Taatarii / MCT) Andrew Engeldinger, 36, breaks into a sign company’s offices and opens fire, killing the owner and five others before turning the gun on himself. Engeldinger had been fired from Accent Signage Systems, a small company that specializes in making interior signs that comply with the Americans With Disabilities Act, including signs in Braille for the blind. Read more » Tagged as Workplace AUG. 5, 2012 6 killed, 3 injured: Oak Creek, Wis. People gathered at the Khalsa Care Foundation in Pacoima, for a candle vigil, to remember the victims of the Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting People gathered at the Khalsa Care Foundation in Pacoima, for a candle vigil, to remember the victims of the Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting (Jay L. Clendenin / Los Angeles Times) Wade Michael Page fatally shoots six people at a Sikh temple before he is shot by a police officer. Page, an Army veteran who was a “psychological operations specialist,” committed suicide after he was wounded. Page was a member of a white supremacist band called End Apathy and his views led federal officials to treat the shooting as an act of domestic terrorism. He had been administratively discharged from the Army in 1998 after being demoted in rank. Victims: Who they were Read more » Tagged as Worship place JULY 20, 2012 12 killed, 58 injured: Aurora, Colo. An Aurora Police Department detective takes a witness statement after the shooting July 20, 2012. An Aurora Police Department detective takes a witness statement after the shooting July 20, 2012. (AP) James Holmes, 24, is taken into custody in the parking lot outside the Century 16 movie theater after a post-midnight attack in Aurora, Colo. Holmes allegedly entered the theater through an exit door about half an hour into the local premiere of “The Dark Knight Rises.” He faces charges of of killing 12 people and injuring 58 others. Victims: Who they were Read more » Tagged as Public place APRIL 2, 2012 7 killed, 3 injured: Oakland Maria Campomanes and her daughter Maelauni, 9, leave flowers for Oikos University victims outside of the school in Oakland on April 4, 2012. Maria Campomanes and her daughter Maelauni, 9, leave flowers for Oikos University victims outside of the school in Oakland on April 4, 2012. (Jeff Chiu / AP) One L. Goh, 43, a former student at a Oikos University, a small Christian college, allegedly opens fire in the middle of a classroom leaving seven people dead and three wounded. Goh was charged with seven counts of murder with special circumstances and three counts of attempted murder. In a jailhouse interview with a San Francisco TV station shortly after the shooting, Goh said he was “deeply sorry” for his actions. Read more » Tagged as School OCT. 12, 2011 8 killed, 1 injured: Seal Beach, Calif. Mourners stop by to pay their respects at the door of Salon Meritage in Seal Beach on the morning after eight people were shot to death and a ninth wounded by suspected gunman Scott Dekraai October 13, 2011. Mourners stop by to pay their respects at the door of Salon Meritage in Seal Beach on the morning after eight people were shot to death and a ninth wounded by suspected gunman Scott Dekraai October 13, 2011. (Mark Boster/Los Angeles Times) Scott Dekraai, 41, apparently enraged over a custody dispute, allegedly walks into a crowded Seal Beach hair salon where his former wife works and opens fire. Eight people are killed, including a man sitting in a truck outside the salon. Another person is critically wounded. Dekraai has pleaded not guilty in the case. Read more » Tagged as Workplace JAN. 8, 2011 6 killed, 11 injured: Tucson, Ariz. President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama attend a memorial service for the victims of the shootings in Tucson, Ariz. President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama attend a memorial service for the victims of the shootings in Tucson, Ariz. (J. Scott Applewhite / AP) Jared Lee Loughner, 22, allegedly shoots Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in the head during a meet-and-greet with constituents at a Tucson supermarket. Six people are killed and 11 others wounded. Loughner is identified by witnesses as the gunman who fired at close range with a semiautomatic pistol before being tackled. Read more » Tagged as Public place AUG. 3, 2010 8 killed, 2 injured: Manchester, Conn. Omar S. Thornton, 34, a driver for Hartford Distributors, emerges from a disciplinary hearing and begins shooting, killing eight people at the family-owned distributorship and then himself. Read more » Tagged as Workplace FEB. 12, 2010 3 killed, 3 injured: Huntsville, Ala. Amy Bishop 45, a neurobiologist and assistant professor at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, shoots and kills 3 people at a biology faculty meeting. Bishop is later sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Read more » Tagged as Workplace NOV. 5, 2009 13 killed, 32 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas Sgt. First Class Noe Figueroa waits to get back on base outside Fort Hood's Clear Creek gate in Killeen, Texas, on Nov. 5, 2009, after a mass shooting on the base. Sgt. First Class Noe Figueroa waits to get back on base outside Fort Hood's Clear Creek gate in Killeen, Texas, on Nov. 5, 2009, after a mass shooting on the base. (Jay Janner / AP) Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, an Army psychiatrist, allegedly shoots and kills 13 people and injures 32 others in a rampage at Ft. Hood, where he is based. Authorities allege that Hasan was exchanging emails with Muslim extremists including American-born radical Anwar Awlaki. Read more » Tagged as Workplace APRIL 3, 2009 13 killed, 4 injured: Binghamton, N.Y. Mourners pray with relatives of shooting victims Lan Ho and Long Huynh outside the American Civic Association on April 5, 2009, in Binghamton, N.Y. Mourners pray with relatives of shooting victims Lan Ho and Long Huynh outside the American Civic Association on April 5, 2009, in Binghamton, N.Y. (Matt Rourke/AP) Jiverly Voong, 41, shoots and kills 13 people and seriously wounds four others before apparently committing suicide at the American Civic Assn., an immigration services center, in Binghamton, N.Y. Read more » Tagged as Public place FEB. 14, 2008 5 killed, 16 injured: Dekalb, Ill. Mourners place flowers Feb. 15, 2008, at a memorial for the five victims of the shooting on the Northern Illinois University campus in DeKalb, Ill. Mourners place flowers Feb. 15, 2008, at a memorial for the five victims of the shooting on the Northern Illinois University campus in DeKalb, Ill. (Associated Press) Steven Kazmierczak, dressed all in black, steps on stage in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University and opens fire on a geology class. Five students are killed and 16 wounded before Kazmierczak kills himself on the lecture hall stage. Read more » Tagged as School DEC. 5, 2007 8 killed, 4 injured: Omaha Terry Bradshaw, left, comforts his wife, Kim, center, and daughter Jamie, right, while they visit a memorial outside the Von Maur department store in Omaha, Neb., on Dec. 8, 2007. Terry Bradshaw, left, comforts his wife, Kim, center, and daughter Jamie, right, while they visit a memorial outside the Von Maur department store in Omaha, Neb., on Dec. 8, 2007. (Charles Rex Arbogast / AP) Robert Hawkins, 19, sprays an Omaha shopping mall with gunfire as holiday shoppers scatter in terror. He kills eight people and wounds four others before taking his own life. Authorities report he left several suicide notes. Read more » Tagged as Public place I think that's 317 or did I miss count? Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

You're defining things differently. One list is of four or more people killed in an incident. The link you posted is of four or more people injured. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com

Actually it was published Oct 2 2017 and includes all mass shootings in america up to that day. It's the LA Times I don't think you claim any sort of right wing bias there. Heller did over turn their blanket hand gun ban in 2008 however IL is still on the list of most restrictive states requiring things like special licencing. If you look up any cool toy you'll find IL listed as one of the states they wont ship to. Lee Lee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com