Chris-Ottawa

I have a better question for you, without calling you an idiot or telling you you're going to die. I'm dead serious with these questions, so I'd appreciate an answer. 1) How many jumps do you have? 2) Why do feel that you need the smallest canopy? Are you bringing skills from somewhere else? 3) What are you trying to accomplish by getting the smallest canopy possible? 4) What canopies have you jumped in the past? So, as you saw above, there's a bunch of anal people above that don't care about you (not all of them though). They only care that you want to jump a small canopy and that's all they hear. I think I'd rather have an idea of why this thought is in your head, and then work with you to figure out what the best option for you would be. Maybe help you understand why the people above think you're crazy. Just to be clear..I will not tell you what to buy. That's a discussion you'll need to have with your instructors, or the S&TA at the DZ you choose. I will help you understand why the people above are saying what they're saying. "When once you have tasted flight..."

The first year I went I was under 25. Second no. I'm pretty sure the second year was more pricey though. I should mention that this was 3 and 4 years ago now. Do you collect airmiles? If you do, they have $100 gift certificates that can be used towards a car rental and you can double them up on a single rental. A "free'er" way to do it would be to take a snooze in the airport (wearing your rig of course), and try to arrange with a local to bum a ride out in the morning. I hear they have a bar at the DZ and the person giving you a ride probably likes what the bar sells so.... 2+2=Beer. "When once you have tasted flight..."

You should be able to get a much better price on a car rental. I was there for 3 weeks, 2 years in a row and I rented a car for the entire duration. I paid $208 all in one year for the 3 weeks, and $290 for the next year (3 weeks). I didn't have any special discount and I got it right from the airport. One year was from Alamo, and the next was Entreprise. I think what's killing you is the one-way dropoff. They discourage that by hiking the price. Just keep the car for the duration and you'll probably pay less. Plus...it's somewhere relatively safe to keep your crap...at least more than a tent it. Enjoy! "When once you have tasted flight..."

How to best transport my rig -Safely Economical ways to travel/plan this trip -itravel2000.com? Where should I stay? -In a tent? Hotel? Actually, bed and breakfasts are great too! How much money should I bring? -Lots Anything else you could offer would definitely help! -Bring condoms, and beer. Also, bring more beer for your first international boogie. That should about cover it! Sorry, I'm just being an ass, have a great trip! "When once you have tasted flight..."

And the reason they overreact is because your mentality promotes that behaviour. Consider this: Scenario 1: Aerio jumps without telling his parents, busts his back on landing. Parents hear about the incident through the news, and freak. Dropzone is sued for "injuring" their son because they don't have the slightest clue about what happened. Scenario 2: Aerio jumps after telling his parents that it's something he's always wanted to do. It has some risk, but because he wears big boy pants, he would like to do it regardless of mommy and daddy's feelings because it makes him happy. Mommy and Daddy start youtubeing and asking Aerio "what if this, and what about that" which gives him the opportunity to explain the safety measures built into the systems and the safety practices that jumpers observe. Now, Aerio has 20 jumps and buys himself a Velo 79 (big boy parachute), and bounces. Now, Mommy and Daddy will surely react, but they have a different approach. They realize that you did what you enjoyed, they knew that you knew there was risk, they knew that you were as safe as you could be (or that's what you told them before you bought your big boy Velo), but unfortunately that risk bit you. Now, they would be aware that you were as safe as you could be, they expected a chance of risk and they let you go knowing that you were happy. See how different that can be? Plus, even if you tell your parents, are they going to drive 1500 miles and hold your hand so you don't jump? What's the disadvantage of telling them if you're a big boy and going to do whatever you want anyways? Sounds like someone is scared that Mommy and Daddy might get mad and not talk to him for making a big boy decision. That's my perspective. Enjoy! "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey everyone, Just thought I'd share something I've been using all summer since I re-worked it a little after the first season. So, first of all, yes, I'm one of those guys who's using 2 GoPro's for video/stills. It's actually saved my ass once already. I had a nasty hard opening, tore the tape on my slider, and I'm certain if I had a full DSLR and CX100 type setup, I would have walked away in much more pain, or maybe worse. I'm not going to respond to any comments about the fact that I use 2 GoPro's regardless. (I have a picture to prove it as the GoPro took a still as the slammer happened and the image is all distorted, plus it's on video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijA0TDzcqGY&feature=channel&list=UL). Anyways, I made this in the spring and just reworked it yesterday for next season. Essentially, it's the 3D housing, the cameras are in one button mode, and one automatically films upside down. We've all seen that before. From there, I attached the accessory port to a resistor and an LED and it's been working great with it popped out the bottom. This is simply to allow me to see if the camera is on or off while wearing my helmet in any daylight condition. Let me know what you think. If you're slightly inclined to do it yourself, I can post a diagram I made and provide some basic instructions. Enjoy, but please excuse my boring assed narration. GoPro Hero2 Remote LED inside a 3D case http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEjcvwYAkNo&feature=plcp "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey Peter, I am actually having fun, DZ.com is an endless source of amusement! I tend to disagree with the fact that reserves don't fly like mains. They do, they fly just like 7 cell mains. Of course they don't fly like highly engineered, crossbraced 9 cell canopies, they are a simplistic 7 cell design, designed for reliability. I think the OP is doing the right thing and taking the time to learn about his gear. Something many, many more people should do. By no means am I saying that all reserve landing should be stand ups, I'm simply saying that they are all more than capable of offering a stand-up landing. Of course conditions, stress, or the situation can affect the landing, but that's not a "feature" of the reserve. I fully agree that the OP should know that it's not going to fly/land exactly like a 9 cell with a powerful flare, but I would never suggest that he should be given the expectation that he would HAVE to slide it in or PLF etc. That's absurd. I think it's pretty clear based on the fact that this thread was even started, that the OP knew it would be different. It's an airfoil just like any other canopy. By demo'ing it, he will have the opportunity to discover that it may need some adjustment of the flaring style, or timing, but the OP wasn't asking for techniques. As I understand, he was asking for ideas to make the most effective use of his time with the reserve. Techniques should be given by his instructors, in a face to face environment. A certain post in this thread would have led the OP to expect nothing more than to be slammed into the ground by the reserve after attempting a PLF. Instead, he should be given the opportunity to discover that it does actually flare, and it is actually capable of offering a stand up, graceful landing. And it's sleep time for me... "When once you have tasted flight..."

Well, if that's what you inferred from what I wrote, then I'm going to infer that you can't land a Tempo standing up, am I correct? "When once you have tasted flight..."

Wow...there is some terrible advice being given in this thread by some very experienced people! That's what makes DZ.com so amusing! Haha. Telling you not to take it to terminal without a clue, and having everyone who's jumped one as a demo telling you that's what it's designed for and there is no issue. No sense in being scared what will happen if you open at terminal. Afterall, you want the full experience right? My experience aligns with everyone else who is experienced with the canopy. It works great and barely opens any harder than any main I've ever jumped. Also, the comment about a reserve not flying like a main? What? That is 100% inaccurate, unless you're jumping a completely baffed out POS, or you don't know how to fly a canopy. Some reserves do fly pretty terrible, but generally you can land those just fine as well. No PLF necessary at all. As for my experience, I've done 9 jumps using an OP143 demo. 3 wingsuit jumps, 2 H+P's, and a couple of everyday terminal jumps. Absolutely great openings, and amazing flare. I did this when I had right around 200 jumps and had absolutely zero issues flaring Listen to the people who've jumped it. Jump it as high as you can and spend as much time doing whatever you want. Stall, rear riser flare/control, sharp turns/avoidance maneuvers, and of course practice flaring. Have fun (and go terminal)! "When once you have tasted flight..."

Dude, you'll simply learn to flex one day. I'm 5'8" and 120lbs and I had a hell of a time when I was new. Once I learnt to REALLY arch, I can get out last in a 10 way formation, and still be the first into the base. Now I'm filming tandem video and I haven't had an issue yet. Some of them tandems get pretty cooking fast. Now...for sit flying, I haven't mastered it yet and still have a hell of a time keeping up. The fact remains, it's all skill based. I just haven't developed it yet (and I haven't been freeflying in the last 3 years really). You can always get a bit of weight, but don't use it as a tool to get you to he formation, use it to give you range. That means, learn to fly your body without them, then once you add them you don't have to work as hard to get down, but you are capable of it regardless. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Ok, to start, here's what I pictured some new rigger doing after reading this thread: In a small enclosed room, putting the reserve and a humidifier on and leaving it for a couple of hours. The resulting reserve is "damp", but very easy to work with. It gets packed and turns into a block as time passes. I know that may sound far fetched, but there are MANY MANY people out there that don't know any better. As far as moisture being forced into and out of your reserve, I think that's a bit far fetched. First, many of the freebags out there are ZP...therefore, next to no moisture would be forced through that. Secondly, have you ever tried blowing/sucking through 2, 3, 4, 5, 20, 30 layers of F-111 that are tightly compressed together? Pretty sure not much air/moisture is getting through the first layer or two there either. To be my own devil's advocate, even if you did add humidity to the room, it would likely take days for that humid air to work it's way into the reserve (assuming it was opened up). If it was sealed, forget about it...zero effect unless it was left there for weeks. Anyways, it is in my opinion (and we all know how much that matters on dz.com) that if you can't pack a reserve without artificially introducing moisture, maybe you shouldn't be packing them in the first place. Hell, while you're at it, you could probably get awesome creases if you just ironed the folds after they were there too. But I know you'd iron it on low because we all know it would melt, and you'd be really safe too! Personally, I think it's an all around bad idea...and I'm done. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Injecting moisture into a packjob that is to be highly compressed and selaed is probably not a great idea. I've heard of other guys hanging the reserve in their washroom and turning on the hot water in the shower to get some moisture in the air. In general, water and reserves are not a great combination and I think adding water in any way or amount is not the answer. I pack in the basement of a centrally air conditioned home. It's very dry and cool. Not the best combination, but unless the reserve you're working on is brand new and too small for the container...it should go in once properly packed/handled. I've never had an issue. Not trying to insult you in any way, but it's probably skill that you need to help with the reserves, not moisture. It may not hurt to hang out with another rigger and spend some extra time fine tuning your skills/technique. FWIW, I have just a couple less packjobs than you do. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Just a point of clarification after a discussion via PM: My comments remain, however I am referring to a true track, where generally a "beginner" tracker may potentially just be orienting themselves into a head low orientation and building speed. This scenario will result in a higher airspeed and can result in pretty dangerous deployments. In a true track where you've converted vertical speed into horizontal...deployments should not be affected by anything more than chance. Going head low, or head down...don't deploy unless it's an emergency and prepare for the slammer you're about to get. "When once you have tasted flight..."

I love these discussions because what people don't realize is that deploying in a track does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to change the deployment. And here's why: When you track, you are converting vertical speed to horizontal speed. Key word: Converting. That means, what you take from one, turns into the other. So, if you were falling at 10mph, and started tracking at 5mph horizontally, you are roughly falling 5mph now. Second thing to consider is that when you deploy, no matter what orientation or speed in which direction you are going makes any difference. Once you pitch your pilot chute, it will go PERFECTLY in line with the relative wind every single time, guaranteed. The ONLY thing that does change, is the orientation of your body once you deploy. When you deploy normally, your body changes roughly 90 degrees from belly to vertical. When you're tracking, your body changes somewhere closer to 180 degrees and it may "seem" that it is harder or more violent etc. Fact is, the bad openings are likely caused by poor body position as you body transitions that 180 degrees. I deploy while still tracking, and directly from full wingsuit flight 100% of the time. I have never had a bad, hard or crazy opening as a result of that. "When once you have tasted flight..."

High pull is considered a landmark jump? Man, I do them whenever I get a chance. If you don't do it for your 100th, do it for you 101st. It's a great way to learn your canopy and a blast to be up so high alone, and when it's stupid hot on the ground, remember it's often bone numbing cold at altitude. "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey man...if someone makes a post like that and can't handle the fallout, it's not my problem. Chuck completely missed the point of the thread and opted to post his resume for everyone to oogle instead. I called it, that's all. But it's ok for the pro swoopers to shit on everyone with less jumps than them because they know anyone with under 8 million jumps has no respect on the internet. To me...that's a good thing. I'm ok without being "that guy that everyone on the internet knows". You know? "When once you have tasted flight..."

[GOLFCLAP]You sir just made the greatest case of how egotistical skydivers can be. [/GOLFCLAP] Pro swoop tour for 5 years, a Sabre2 with HMA AND a FULL RDS, I'm truly impressed! Not just a removable slider, but a full RDS! I stand down...you sir are the most bestest swooper in the world! As much as I'd like to let your ego stew in itself, I figure I should break the bad news. The thread never asked you to prove anything. It's asking for you to post videos to help NEW jumpers from wanting to downsize so soon. You know...help others and help the sport? Nothing personal Chuck, but you've gotta honestly admit, you're post was pretty "self proclaiming" for no reason. Maybe stopping at 5 years on the PST would have sufficed, but going on about your Sabre2 97 with HMA and a FULL RDS, your 80sq ft AFF/work/swoop rig and your one handed rear riser 90% of the time completely stopped landings...that makes me giggle. Completely unnecessary for anything other than making a point of how great you are on the interweb. Come on people...read the thread instead of just pouncing for no reason. This isn't about me or you, it's to help newer jumpers. "When once you have tasted flight..."

I'm not even going to try and explain myself for the 6th time. I'm not missing the point, the readers are missing the point. I'm not after any form of approval for anything I'm doing, I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but you're completely missing 'MY" point. Everyone is too caught up in trying to shit on people on dz.com to actually try to read what is being written. Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled program. I think there's a couple new posts for the canopy nazi's to try and fight over who gets the first post. Hurry along! "When once you have tasted flight..."

Hey Dave, I'm not saying at all that anyone should stay on a large canopy for ever. I was just hoping to come up with some videos to "prove" to newer jumpers that figure they NEED to downsize/go elliptical in order to swoop. I wanted to be able to come up with some videos that showed average people swooping average canopies (at reasonable wingloadings) to give them something to work towards. A reason NOT to downsize sooner. I have no idea how this has turned into me calling out swoopers saying that they "can't" swoop a large canopy. I'm very simply asking them to share it for the benefit of newer jumpers. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with me trying to change anything about me. I'm on a small canopy, and I don't forsee myself changing that at this point. I just hate reading thread after thread where experienced jumpers try to convince new jumpers that their Sabre2 170 will last them 500 jumps and they should be able to rip an awesome swoop before even remotely considering downsizing. I'm not saying it won't last them 500 jumps, I'm just saying that we should be able to show them that their swoops really aren't anything more than a quick landing, and it will encourage them to work harder at learning to fly the canopy before downsizing. I'm trying to do some good, but it seems to keep being turned around on me that I'm trying to indicate that I'm some sort of prodigy and the rules don't apply to me. I am not AT ALL trying to do any of that. I realize I'm not an ace swooper, I'm an average joe that downsized quickly and I am nothing more that that. Does anyone understand what I'm trying to get out of this thread or is it completely off the wall? @Ian - It's all good... "When once you have tasted flight..."

Pretty good examples, thanks for sharing! The wingloading is still a bit higher than the average beginner, but within a range which still shows potential on the canopy. I understand the point that the experienced guys are trying to make, I'm just asking for examples. If they say that you should learn on that "huge" Sabre2 and it'll make you better, I don't at all disagree. I'm just asking for samples for people to see of some decent swoops on a relatively large, lightly loaded canopy. And there are some pretty good examples in this thread now. I'd still love to see a pro class swooper bust out a swoop on a Sabre/Pilot/Spectre etc with a wingloading within a new jumper range (ie: 1:1 to 1:2). *I also have no intent to compete at this point, I do it purely for my enjoyment. "When once you have tasted flight..."

If I ignore you, do you just go away? "When once you have tasted flight..."

It's not worth my time to reply to that. Like I said, feel free to go back and read the whole thread. But back on topic with the thread, that was actually a great clip of the Sabre 210. Thanks! Oh and Fast...if you didn't realize that was sarcasm...WOW! "When once you have tasted flight..."

I was going to write you a nice wordy reply, but then I realized I'd be wasting my time since you clearly can't comprehend what I would have written anyways, so this is all you get. I suggest that you go back and read the whole thread before you make more dumb assumptions. I do however appreciate how threatened/jealous you are of my super massive downwind swoop! PS: It was ~5kph, not ~5knt...Just saying. "When once you have tasted flight..."

I have no axe to grind, I just think it's funny to see people telling new jumpers that they don't need a super high performance canopy at jump 10 to impress people. I just wanted to take that one step farther and gather some videos so they can see and think: Damn, that guy with 1000 jumps on that Sabre 2 150 just ripped a huge swoop. I'm gonna try to build to that, and if I'm not coming anywhere close, I'm nowhere near "maxing" out my canopy skills on that canopy. Basically, one "more" reason to say, you know...if you can't do even remotely this with your canopy...you don't really need to downsize. As far as "I" go...I admittedly fit into the "downsized too early" category, however I believe that I've taken it slowly and have progressed reasonably well. I make no claim that I am a bad-ass swooper (nor am I trying to be), but I'm happy with my reasonably good "recreational" swooping skills. *Not that this is ultra impressive, but for someone that was on a Cobalt 105 at 117 jumps, and a Katana 97 at 275, I think I'm doing reasonably well. This video was taken when I had about 360 jumps, (less than 100 on the Katana) and no formal canopy training. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFTc5o1V__Q "When once you have tasted flight..."

That looks pretty damn impressive, but we're also well beyond a standard sport canopy loading. 2:1 is nothing that a new'ish jumper would be considering (in most cases i hope). But wait? No one went out this weekend and got a video of them on a Sabre2 150 busting a 600+ foot swoop? I'm shocked! There seems to be a lot of claims in this thread but no proof that I would consider competition for an average person who downsized too quickly and didn't learn. Yes, there have been videos posted of large canopies swooping, but nowhere near the distance/speed that seems to be claimed. What exactly are people trying to convince new jumpers of? That they can swoop just as far as the world record if they just learn the canopy? Or that they can simply bust out a swoop in general on any canopy? or that they should be able to swoop 250ft on a regular canopy? Are we just saying that they'll be a little safer?What are we trying to compare here? "When once you have tasted flight..."