scratch69

What a concept, huh? At the time of this post 38 people have gotten it wrong. Again, if there are still morons answering wrong intentionally, that is fine. I still believe that there are at least a couple of people that truly answered incorrectly and I hope this thread has helped those people. Regardless, this topic is very important and should be addressed more often and really beaten into new students at the beginning of their progression as well as throughout. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

I agree, the whole EARTH is my dropzone! And what a view from altitude. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

You know, if anything these various responses are just adding to the confusion. This year at safety day, how about everyone makes this one of the main topics of discussion. It appears as though we could all use a refresher. Fly safe. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

Well at least your being fair Bill. Everything on this damn website is poorly worded. I put up a cheesy poll and all of a sudden everyone is an english major? Obviously you can't answer a JPG attachment, if that confused some of you, then skydiving is probably not the best activity for you, but do keep your helmets on please! - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

Thanks for your meaningful feedback. You are acting like the true pillar of the sport that you are. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

This poll was far from formal, but that's what adds to its validity. I just threw it out there and got raw feedback. It wasn't set-up in any way and no one really had an explanation of what was going on. This resulted in true to life responses, including honest answers, dumbasses who answered wrong on purpose and people who made mistakes such as yourself. This is pretty indicative of real life in my opinion. Surprisingly the poll continues and at last count, 13 people call it a left hand pattern. Who cares how accurate that number TRULY is, the point is that if even ONE person truly made the mistake and they have a skydiving license, then we are ALL in DANGER !!! Think about it. Now go and quiz everyone you know, print out the attachement and bring it to your DZ and test your peers. You may be in for a shocker. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

jbanning - a few years ago, I was in your shoes and i too am thankful that I was trained by excellent instructors who took time and effort to truly ensure that students UNDERSTOOD the ins and outs of skydiving safety. The resluts of this forum are a microcosm of the real world from a statistical standpoint. Some people have already realized the validity of my poll and others have ridiculed it and even manipulated the numbers in the poll to be morons because that is what they are good at. In any case, I do believe the awareness level of patterns is at the forefront in light of recent events, and that is a VERY GOOD thing. Thanks again to all who participated truthfully. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

So quick to judge others?? Perhpas they weren't trained properly ?? The scientific merit of my study has just been compromised by your post though. As of now there are no longer any valid answers. The final verdict is 15 - RIGHT 3 - LEFT. 16 % of jumpers are misinformed. Thanks for your help everyone. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

I'm not sure what to make of this, but at the time of this post, there were 65 people who viewed the poll, but only 11 who have answered. Could this be a case of uncertainty or is everyone busy running out and checking their SIM's ? - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

No sir, I assure you this is serious. Just look at the results so far, I am winning my bet. This will be very interesting. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

In light of a recent few ridiculous posts that I have read on here, it is evident that training is either not being properly provided or people are quickly forgetting what they learned in the early days of their training, ie. the basics. So please amuse me, and a side bet that I have going and please provide your answer to the question on the picture that I have attached to this post. I would greatly appreciate your input. If not for me, do it for science. Feel free to comment as well. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

Good point Bill, and it stems down to basic logic again. I am all for the community mentality and caring for our fellow jumpers. That is why I recommend that every DZ takes a long hard look at their resident "swoopers", and meet with them regularily to setup an understanding that everyone will agree on to keep people alive in the LZ. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

GravityGirl : I just wanted to say that your comment in the incidents thread for Dec.31Eloy is bang on. I hope it didn't get lost in the fray. Sorry for hijacking your thread for this Zig. I'm not really interested in going near that incidents thread. It is way too heated, even for me. We learn from fatalities, and these last two were huge. I think a lot of positive will come out of it in the end. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

There are a few DZ's out there that I've been to that have designated landing areas for certain experience levels and for things like swooping. This has always made sense and I have never seen a problem with this. Most DZ's, though, are in fact a "free-for-all" and the answer to your question is NO, there is no proper reprimand. I know this first hand from my earlier days when I did break the rules of landing pattern, and nothing was done about it. This was unintentional, I should add. As a new jumper going to new DZ's, I always found it hard to figure out their particular rules on the LZ, so mistakes were made, thankfully no major ones. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

Zig - I respect you. I respect all jumpers, regardless of jump numbers and skill. Every jumper should do the same, RESPECT. This is not a matter of opinion, its a matter of logic. In a high traffic LZ, there is no place for swoop practice or show-boating. This goes without question. My argument is focused strictly on people shunning new jumpers who chose canopy piloting as their discipline. These people have every right to put their own life in danger to achieve their goals of becoming the best swoopers. There are sanctioned events for this type of thing and even dropzones that cater to swoopers. This is my exact point!!! Don't destroy these jumpers for wanting to be aggressive canopy pilots, its their GOD-GIVEN-AMERICAN right to do so. Instead, NURTURE them, and GUIDE them and maybe setup an outlet for new swoopers at your DZ. Don't just discount every swooper as a loaded weapon looking to kill someone. That's a similar mentality that WHUFFO's have about skydivers in general and we all know how we as skydivers feel about that. Anyone can be a whuffo, including experienced skydivers who don't understand why someone would actually be crazy enough to hook a highly loaded canopy towards the ground at 80mph !!!! "Whuffo you do that???" Because I can and its DAMN fun and its DAMN rewarding. The same DAMN reason just about everyone here started skydiving, LEST WE FORGET. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

People, listen to yourselves. I am incredibly bored and I read every last long and drawn out post in this thread. A couple of my favorite key moments : Trivial Trekker and two40 sharing their unlimited and undoubtedly vast knowledge of skydiving with us whilst pushing higher regulations upon us because a handful of people burn in under perfectly good canopies. And then theres Peregrinrose and Kkeenan, whom I will affectionately refer to as mommy and daddy. Do the two of you truly believe that you are invincible?? Go back and read your posts. You are talking down at people who are exploring the limits of their abilities and telling them that its not right, you need to be more conservative like me, then you will never die in skydiving. People, PLEASE !!! Honestly. The noobies I can deal with because they are still dumbasses and very influenced by up-jumpers. But if you are in the sport for a couple years or more, (35 years especially) please spare us the speeches about what you have done to stay alive in the sport. This sport is about LUCK and nothing else. Now remember, luck is the by-product of preparation and opportunity, so I will never discount those two very important traits in this great sport. But lets all remember the true tragedies in the sport, where EVERYTHING was done right, and a fatality still occurs. NO ONE is invincible, the live ones are just lucky so far. As for bashing people for downsizing canopies, all I can say is mind your own damn business. This has nothing to do with you. NOTHING. People are downsizing aggressively and they are amazing canopy pilots because of it. The price to pay is a few lives here and there on the road to canpopy piloting greatness. Too bad, its called evolution and progression. The few that pay the price for the masses are mourned and remembered for the ultimate sacrifice they paid so their sport could continue to PROGRESS. I have some friends in Canada who are ridiculously good canopy pilots. For everyone's information, there are no canopy Nazi's up there and these kids are kicking everyone's asses at the world swooping comp's. Who can guess how many skydiving fatalities there are in Canada every year, or more specifically hook turn deaths?? ZERO ! Instead of ostrisizing these people, why don't we embrace them. This fairly new discipline called SWOOPING is not going anywhere folks, much to your dismay. In fact, the entire sport of skydiving is evolving that way, sorry old farts. Take these people and encourage them, don't squash them. Skydiving is not about Style and Accuracy any more, as is clearly evident at all major competitions these days. Of course MB38 is loading at 1.3/1.4 at only 100 jumps. His DZ staff and mentors have allowed him to progress at this level due to his abilities. And sorry Peregrinrose, but he is a much better canopy pilot than you were at 100 jumps, because you chose the conservative route. No one is a better or worse skydiver, but canopy piloting truly is its own discipline and you are only as good as you can push yourself to be. Damn thats a long post. I can't wait for the colorful rebuttals. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

you know squeak, the politics have made formed me into the man i am today. And its clearly evident by the post from dbattman "BITE ME", that the new years love is almost over and its time to get back to being an asshole again. I hope you are having a good time, please drink heavily and have a packing contest shortly thereafter. I will be by in the morning to jump the winners canopy. Blue Skies fuckers , oh and dbattman, bite me assface. I love you too. --- you know its funny, but thats also one of skymama's famous quotes!! oops, thats gonna get me in shit for sure !!! - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

Thanks squeak, adding fuel to the 2007 hate machine already. Its gonna be a busy year of pissing you people off again. I just can't wait. Cheers asshole - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

Fuck it. Happy New Year to everyone, im drunk so i can get away with being nice once in a blue moon. back to asshole in the morning, promise. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

You are a freaking idiot and I just reduced my intelligence by half for just reading your thread. Pour a little more Vodka in your eggnog dumbass. When skydivers don't jump, I've seen them do some dumb shit. When morons are idle, you get this guy. And why the fuck are the rest of you encouraging this ? 2007 fatality statistics just got a jump start, thanks a lot dumbass. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

Passed through, thought it was alright. For Canada.

As far as your original post goes, the answer is NO, you are not wrong for being disgusted. In fact you can feel anything you want, its a free country. You can also speak out against it, again the whole free country thing. What you can't do and shouldn't do, is try to be everyones mommy. You have a CHOICE who you skydive with. If you agree to do group RW with people you do not know and have never jumped with, guess what, you have nothing to complain about when someone kills you. One of my first coaches once taught me, treat everyone in the air as if they are trying to kill you, especially the people you know!!! Stop thumping law books and imposing unecessary laws on us. We all agree it was wrong and the guys an asshole. But thats where it ends. You can do NOTHING about it. Deal with it. Ignorance is bliss. This is skydiving, not tennis sweety. People can and WILL die, whether they are breaking rules or following them. DONT MAKE MORE RULES, OR PEOPLE WILL JUST BREAK MORE RULES!! Its human nature. If you do what you are supposed to do, you will never have to worry about these weird hypothetical scenarios you keep dreaming up in this thread. PS. if this guy lands on your head while your standing at the DZ because of a "no pull", well not only is that the shittiest luck ever, but its also covered in that waiver you sign at every DZ that tells you that your life is in danger just be being at the DZ. Thanks for bringing this issue up, and your opinions are valid, but stop now. We do not need any more regulations. Stay safe (as possible) - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

Isn't that what I just said ?? (slightly paraphrased) So Strato is a bit more eloquent than I, big deal. Jraf : I am also leaving this thread, never to return. Let me extend an olive branch of peace. Anytime you are looking for a good DZ to do some DLP, let me know. I've been around and I knwo a few places that don't have altitude nazi's running around. So finish your drinks, say good night and go to bed. This thread is OVER. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

like what ??? Autoerotic asphyxiation ?? Shit i get adrenaline rush from riding a crotch rocket on the interstate at 120, but it sure doesn't beat exiting an aircraft in head-down from 18000 and then dirty low pulling. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -

Of course the thrill gets lost ! Where would this sport be if the thrill of a solo freefall was permanent ? We would never have FREEFLY, FREESTYLE, CRW, WINGSUITS, BASE, etc. This sport can only survive through innovators who are willing to push the limits. People who got bored of skydiving risked their lives to take the sport to new levels. There are freaks out there flying sub 30 sq/ft canopies and trying to land wingsuits on ski slopes !! These are people who lost the thrill of freefall so they did something about it. Some people quit the sport, others re-invent it. - - i was sent here to disturb the peace - -