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I recommend you guys try to include TM. He's probably America's most experienced BASE jumper, and it sounded to me like he's got some fairly legitimate gripes about a tower that's right next to a place he calls home for several weeks a year.

I Agree. When I spoke with TM this past weekend he wasn't too happy about the day jumps that were going on at that freestander that he has been jumping without any hassles for YEARS. I'll introduce all of you to him at BD. He is a very likable guy with tons of knowledge and information plus over 1000 BASE jumps so he just might have some good points that have not been discussed.

See you at BD,
Jason
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If you don't mind, what kind of canopy were you jumping and why do you think a 42" was not appropiate for a 2-3 sec?

From what I saw and the reports that were passed around at Royal Gorge, he was jumping a 'clapped out' TRIATHALON 135. Not a very smart choice for any BASE jump IMHO, especially from a pioneer who claims to know everything about BASE.
It looked as if it took 400+ feet to open, then when it did open it never flew correctly. Looked as if it was in brakes the whole way then it stalled and spun dropping him into the talus. Since the winds were starting to pick up and the canopy was not fully functional and he was over a steep embankment, I think he might have also got some funky winds coming up the talus to help to contribute to the stall. An approach over the water, I think, might have helped and been safer.

I'm in the same boat as most jumpers who have met Robin, I don't particularily like him or his attitude but I hate to see people get injured. So heal up Robin... the sport wouldn't be the same without all your love and compassion
Jason
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...But the jumps are free.
Free from stress.
Free from worry.
Free from debt.
.....Now I'm free to stand down, walk away from any jump, any time,
no matter what the cost of getting there was in the first place.
I've already seen the inside of a hospital.
Bottom line: I can't afford NOT to BASE jump, I'm broke without it.

Nice one Avery!

Jason
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In a serious nutshell, BASE jumping is dangerous and jumping guyed antennas poses additional risks if you fail to avoid guyed wires. Additional risks include shitting yourself, partial to full canopy collapse, and severe body damage if your body, not the canopy, impacts the wire. It was merely a bad spatial awareness of the situation. Due to the current legal situation that is all the information that can be known. In the end if you don't want to entangle a wire, check the sticky topic in the forum, or DON'T JUMP GUYED ANTENNAS.

PS If you couldn't tell the whole situation outlined was highly dramatized, and is hardly factual at all.

Well Justin I would have expected a little more from you but I guess all that time in California changed you somehow. So you were there to supervise in case something happened?? Hell my grandma could have done the same supervising job you did.
Why not take the wires out of play??? Why jump a guyed antenna on your first jump in the first place?? THINK MAN!!
The main issue here is safety, I dont care the site got burned I'm just glad everyone is uninjured and alive. It would be a much worse headline if it had the word 'death' or 'died' in it. Please think a little before you attempt this again.

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ps-I agree that it sure would have been some funny shit to see.

I am a very experienced NC jumper and I would like to be a part of the town meeting that is being planned. Unfortunatly I'll be out of town this weekend (royal gorge) and won't be able to make it. I believe that something needs to be done about this(plus many more things) and I think that ALL the jumpers in NC and SC have a say in it, not just the ones in that part of the state or DZ, because obviously they cannot make safe decisions on their own and it is directly affecting many jumpers in the 2 states they are near.
I agree with you Kevin that the # of jumpable sites in NC is dwindling and safety issues are clearly evident, so either everyone sees that right now and we put a stop to this bullshit or we just let all the sites get burned and we let people get hurt and die. The choice is ours.... which will it be?? Frickin' Knuckleheads

Jason
BASE 570

Edited to add:

It looked to me like an arrest the whole time. Felix didn't look too concerned about getting away after he jumped, he spent too much time looking for the cameras and media. I mean did they really think that he wouldn't be seen by the huge ship right underneath him?
I wish I had unlimited funds so I could jump anything I wanted anytime I wanted.

Hell, I thought you we're talking about that redneck bar near Bunn out near the DZ. I was wondering why Joe,s band would be playing there. phew, I'm glad we cleared that up!!!!

570

If all the proper conditions are met, you could survive a 15 story BASE jump. Many factors would have to be anylized though.

So did you do your job and rescue the crapping coworker or did you leave him to burn?
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Sorry man, I didn't mean to cause you any problems. I was just looking for some altitude
BASE 570

All bow down to Arch Bishop McFurry... I will be Pope one day. As soon as I get my nuts in order

Alter egos - Lieutenant Crazypaws and Furry Bignuts

Peace
base570

Been looking forward to this one for a long time!!!

Jason
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Glad to see you back, Marion. I missed youI think it's time I leaned that freaky shit so I might see ya out there as soon as this tendonitis gets better. I will, however, stay well clear of the trailer... it sounds dangerous

Jason
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Looks like team USA is in first place in all FS catagories so far!!
SweetTeam 420 is really smokin'
Jason
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Good luck Talbert. Kick some ass over there!!
Go team USA!

Jason
BASE 570

he's paralysed from the chest down, I believe.
Quite an inspirationJason

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Since the hurricane is going to hit where I am on the Gulf Coast dead on, I'm going to head on up there tomorrow. Should be in the area this weekend.

Pussy!!
One of my dream jumps would be into the eye of a hurricane How fast can you climb since no planes will be taking off???

Nice one Yuri!!
CONGRATULATIONS!!

We'll have to get together soon, now that I'm back in the states. Maybe Michelle will pack for me too this time!!

Jason
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<<This coment truely shows who is trying to get their ego stroked!! Think about it if a person chooses to go BASE jumping they will go with people that they know. Why would someone travel to another place looking for someone with more jumps or experiance when they dont even know you. Why would they trust you with their lives? The same in skydiving, does someone choose a DZ based on the experiance of the people or is it the VIBE? Maybe if you gave off a better vibe instead of always lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce on someone for posting on here maybe people would search you out. This has strayed way far from the original post. We were concerned about a newbie taking an AFF student BASE jumping remember! Then it wasnt long before you pounced on me! If you are looking for your ego to get stoked here you go, "yes you have more jumps than I do" Yes you have been jumping longer than me". But some people were just not born to teach what ever the experiance. I dont take people Base jumping because I am worried about loosing revenue at the DZ. I go with people that are gonna go whether Im there or not. I have never tought someone how to BASE but rather tell thim what I have learned through my experiances, Sharing the knowlege from jumpers past is how people learn not to make the same mistakes as the older jumpers. By doing this makes BASE safer and safer so that people dont continue to make the same mistakes.
I have never jumped with you, but I have jumped with several people that jump with you often, For some reason you dont like me, and I truely dont care.

Hi John,
I'm not the one who needs my ego stroked John because I'm not the one who is trying to teach everyone who comes to me and says "wow BASE is cool, I'm going to jump are you going to show me or what??" I have turned down dozens of people because I felt that they didn't really want to learn BASE they just wanted an amusement park ride. I have even turned down close friends because they couldn't or wouldn't take the proper steps to learn the skills that are needed in BASE. I try to steer the people that ask about it in the right direction by telling them to take their time getting really comfortable with flying and packing a big 7 cell canopy, to learn tracking skills, to take a class with the manufacturers, to put forth the effort to learn as if their life depended on because IT DOES! Most people that want my help get the same curriculum and I can say that almost all have said "oh, it's to much work" or "it's too time consuming" or it will "cost too much money" In my opinion, these people don't need to be BASE jumping because they have little regard for their own wellbeing and safety and can't bring themselves to do more than a half assed job. Most of these people have forgotten about BASE because it wasn't easily attainable. Sure some still have that desire but at least they have all the facts and have some sort of idea of what it takes to to be as safe as possible in the sport and what it would take for me to help them. I strongly feel that if you would have the same discretion when choosing students that you would not be in the situation your in now with your new student. The new student would see how meticulous you are in choosing, preparing and planning for every jump and they in turn would do the same and they would know that they don't have the knowledge yet to teach anyone. I think you have set the bad example by taking everyone who asks and, as you have seen, your students have and will do the same as their teacher.
Also, your statement "Why would someone travel to another place looking for someone with more jumps or experience when they dont even know you [them]?" fails to make sense. So are saying that people wanting to learn shouldn't go to manufactures courses because they don't know them?? This is ridiculous! What I said was that he failed to get other OPINIONS on the safe path to BASE jumping and choosing a mentor. I wouldn't have taught him to jump anyway, I don't need that kind of reassuring, I would have given him some skills to practice and some phone numbers to call to get set up with a course.
I guess we are just different in this aspect. You believe that it's a big amusement park ride and I KNOW it is not.
Once again good luck in talking with your student, I truly hope that you are able to get the point across and get this issue resolved.

570
ps-Thanks for posting the first picture it pretty well sums up your attitude now, just as it has been all along.
pps- A good "vibe" won't do crap for you when the shit hits the fan, but good skills can.

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Hang on a second...the operative term here being "hang". I was wondering of you could be my mentor, Jason, and show me how to get snagged on a tower while trying to BASE it? I'm just saying. If you're going to be an asshat and try and tell people about their screw-ups, at least have the satchel to mention your own.

Edited to add: Unless you AREN'T the Jason that was featured in Skydiving magazine recently.

Dear Mr. McDuck,
I think I have already told everyone about my screw-up if you would have looked here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1029422;search_string=base%20prophets;#1029422 you would have seen that, but I guess you failed to search around. Just like you failed to do your homework when looking for a mentor. You stated in your other post that "as a brand-spanking new neophyte to BASE, I personally would only seek out the best and most experienced BASE jumpers to get me started, the ones who not only have been doing it for quite a while, but also come highly recommended by their peers."
This statement shows just how ill-prepared you are for BASE. I think that you must have just been looking only at your DZ and not anywhere else since there are at least 4 other jumpers in the Carolinas that have at least DOUBLE the experience that your mentor does. Also who were the 'peers' you talked to? People who he took on a jump from his DZ? Don't you think that those opinions might be slightly biased? Open those funny little eyes of yours Mr. McDuck and you would see that there is a whole lot more than just your little DZ out there to get opinions from.
I'm not saying John is a bad person because I know he is not. His heart is in the right place, I just think he is a little too eager (just like his newest student) to teach everyone, no matter what their skill level, who has even the slightest interest in BASE. He's a DZO for crying out loud, he has to keep his clientele happy, right?? Otherwise they would bail and jump at another DZ, which means loss of revenue.
As far as the pictures in skydiving goes... do you really think that I have control over the person that took the photos? The shots were news to me when the mag came out. Someone else had to show me.

Thanks for the little pun at the beginning of your post, you should take that act on the road. It sure was funny! Oh, and if you're going to be an 'asshat' please do your research first and know what your talking about.

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Man this has turned into a bit of a flame fest. John taught me how to BASE about a year ago and was there for every other jump until I moved to Europe. He also taught my wife. Along with NC2, 788, 789, and a few others, who also didn't have any issues with it. He pretty much runs the area and no one has a problem with it. Well except a few guys that can't let go of the past. Some peple just don't get along. Since I have been jumping no one has gotten hurt and everyone seems to be getting a hold on the sport. He is asking the question to the whole net-based community that was never afforded to him. Input without the smartassed comments would probably make this forum look a lot less like a moron show. Now that is just MY two cents. later on

Matt,
So no one has gotten hurt, huh?? Aren't you laid up now from not knowing how to jump slider up? So did John teach you that? How about a busted up ankle from jumping in unfavorable conditions that happened to one of his 'students'. I could give more examples but there is no need to...
It's quite funny that you think John 'runs the show' in NC, I guess either he has made you believe that or you didn't put in the time or effort to look around and find other more experienced BASE jumpers in the area. If you did you would have found out that most of the sites that John and his crew are jumping were opened up and continually jumped by.... you guessed it someone else! In fact I know of a few jumpers that would be offended with that statement!

Heal fast

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Jason,
Has it been that long ago that you dont remember the reason that you guys didnt like me. It was for going out and jumping sites with my freind Geoff (BASE709) not taking new jumpers and teaching people. I started showing some very experianced skydivers the ways of HUCKING only after a HUNDRED or so jumps of my own.

The reson for my post was not to BASH this guy but to show him that everyone in BASE felt the same about this as we do. After talking to this guy with no responce I decided to post against my better judgement. And once again insted of this being helpful it has turned into a BASHING session.

The guy in general is my freind!! I just want him to realize that if hes only gonna hurt himself I have no problem with that, just dont hurt someone else that really doesnt realize what there getting into! I live by "IF YOUR GONNA BE STUPID YOU BETTER BE TOUGH".

Im not gonna make him an outcast like you guys have with me and Geoff. Oh I remember what it was like not having anyone to BASE with but Geoff. Now thats changed. I have a BASE freindly DZ with about 15 steady BASE jumpers to HUCK with. HOWS THAT FOR IRONIC !!!!!

JOHN HAYES
NC BASE 3
BASE 708

Yes John I remember the reasons but I guess you do not....
As I remember you had asked 515 if you could tag along on a BASE excursion to scope out new sites that we had planned well in advance of your request. 515 respectfully declined because he thought it was over your head since you had NO jumps and NO idea how to pack even though you had many skydives. So you got pissed and went out to 3 sites that weekend and jumped all 3 (B<300ft,S-210ft,E-150ft). Now these were not beginner sites but you treated them as such since you didn't know any better and were too impatient to wait for another weekend when we could show you and help out. You and Geoff were lucky you didn't die that weekend and from that point on you felt like you were alienated from the group, which was in your head. From what I recall you NEVER contacted me to ask for help or guidance, you just took it upon yourself to go out and learn on your own, pissed at us for not catering to you. You're right that I was upset about how you went about 'learning', if you can call it that, but I got over it. then the reports of you teaching people came in. 150ft cliff or a sub 300ft building is not a good site for a first jump, can't you see that?????? Then burning that 2000footer and basically saying it wasn't you and you were a victim of circumstance... come on man it's one thing to burn a site and take responsibility but it's totally different to try to weasel your way out of it and blame other people.
John, I have nothing against you personally and I respect what you have done in the skydiving community but BASE is not skydiving and I think you have a hard time separating them. It's great that you taut having taught 15 jumpers "the ways of HUCKING" but the way I see it is that you have brought 15 skydivers into BASE with little regard for their safety or wellbeing, to make you look like 'the man', as you put it.

How do you expect your new 'guinea pigs' to follow the rules (respect, knowledge and safety) when you never did??
Instant gratification (impatience) and looking important (ego) is what everyone wants in todays society, but NO ONE wants to put in the time or effort to learn it right. What a sad world we live in

Once again, I wish you luck in talking to your friend and I hope you can get your point across and come to some understanding.

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