Michele

Zennie, I agree with you. And I will also say this this man is someone who I have never met; he is not my co-worker, but a client of hers. There are many very educated people in this sport, and many more are just flat out intelligent people. In my limited experience in jumping, I have discovered that this sport does not forgive "stupid", and demands every cell be in satori, or present, totally focused. And a sheepskin diploma is not what you make a canopy out of. I have no college, but the experience I am having in learning to fly is comparable, in my mind, as a few crash courses (no pun intended) - in psychology, physics, and in mental discipline. I appreciate your offer to debate the topic with him, and while there may be some mysogeny on his part and he may deal better with a man (you man you), I like you too much to subject you to that blithering idiot. Lisa and Mouth - he was on the speaker phone. I figured that engaging in a battle of wits with him would have been unfair, so I simply excused myself, and declined the temptation to battle, allowing him to be left talking to himself. I hope he found some good answers. They wouldn't have come from me. (I will say, tho, that while a woman, I have yet to "rule" anything - lol! Both of you, however, RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!THE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SKY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Ciel bleu - Michele

You and your family will be in my prayers. I am so sorry. Wishing you blue skies Michele

12:15 p.m., comes, so I get out to my car, ready to go. No jitters or nerves, just a little too much coffee. I back out of the garage, and drive around the block and come home because I have forgotten my purse. I leave again, and then realize that I have forgotten my log book. Back inside, grab it, and my cats are looking at me, "is she here or not?" and then I am finally at the bank and if I have forgotten anything else it's just too bad, and the lady in line two places in front of me looks at my Perris "free fly" t-shirt. Her eyes widen, and she gasps "you don't mean to tell me that you do that, do you?" which of course makes everyone look at my chest to see what she's talking about. I smile, thinking I haven't told you anything, and then the man in front of me asks: "why do you want to jump out of a perfectly good airplane?" And I start to laugh..... this is the first time I have been asked that question in exactly that manner, and the only thing I think of to say is "no, I just practice so in case there's ever an emergency on a commercial flight I can survive". Which shuts them up pretty fast, but doesn't stop the looks and I can't stop laughing. I get on the highway, and there's two accidents, which makes my drive almost interminable....and I am late to the school, and I hope Nelson and DiverDave haven't decided that I chickened out (which has crossed my mind) so I park, and walk really fast onto the dropzone. I have been able to ignore the fear so far, but now I can't and I feel it blister and swell into a puddle, reaching into my mind and talking to me. I tell it to shut up already - did I say that out loud? And did anyone hear me? And it doesn't matter because here I am at the school, and I take a deep breath and I step inside, and I am sweating more than the heat would account for and I sign in. Nelson sees me from down the hall, and shouts "Michele!" and I look up into his grinning face and I say "Nelson" and we laugh and hug each other and I forget I am scared because Nelson is here, and now Ed is here, too. Stuart takes me into the harness room, and I am not having fun yet. I don't get many of the answers right, but he seems to think I won't have a problem, and so lets me out of that hot sweltering place and now I really feel the fear, feel it tug on my mind, and roll through my body and take up residence in my belly. Are my shoelaces too tight? I think about anything else other than jumping but that's hard to do because everyone is getting ready, and walking through their dives and getting suited up and so I gather the gear together and put it in one spot and then I have to leave, I moan and move into the open I have to get outside, and breathe, get quiet in my head and pretend that this is fun and I know what I'm doing and I can do this damnit I have done this, and I am fine. But I can't hear my own self talking over the clamoring noise; then I see Ed. Or rather, he sees me, and comes over and hugs me. I tell him that I am borrowing his confidence in me for a while and could he share? We walk through the dive, and for the first time it occurs to me that I will be at the door with no-one on one side of me, just the door and me and then Ed, and then I suit up and I see Ed getting into a blue suit for the first time and I wonder what that's all about and then he puts on weights and I still don't understand what's going on but my radio works and so I sling the harness onto my back and I can't get the leg straps done because I am suddenly shaking and my palms are wet and I get mad. Mad because this panic is here again, and I know what I can do, I have done it, and I will not let a stupid strap defeat me, and I will not let a door defeat me and I will not let my head defeat me so I ask Mike to please strap this damn thing and he does. I leave the school, and walk down to the loading area. I am hot, mad, scared again, and I mentally shake myself. Hard. My head pictures the panic and wraps it up into a little ball, puts it in a box, duct tapes the box, and sticks it on the shelf of my mind. I will not have it present. I refuse. But it creeps back out as I walk up the stairs to the plane. And then it occurs to me that this is part of the experience, not to be fought, but to be handled. To be accepted as my experience doing this level, at this time, in this way. And once I understand that, the panic recedes, like the tide going out, and while there is still fear, it is not drowning me. On the ride up, Ed asks if I have any questions, and the one which has been bothering me for a while is "what if you have to sneeze in freefall?" so I ask it, and then Ed just looks at me. And he asks Mike, and then Mike just looks at me. I decide that I don't really need to find out the answer, and I am touching the BOC and feeling for the handles, it's reassuring me because my body remembers where they are and now it's 12.5 and Nelson gets to the door and out of it, and he does it great (I know - I have it on video) and then another lady Kim goes for her level two (yay Kim!), and then it is just me, Ed, and Mike is doing the vid so he's outside now, and then I am lining up my feet with - nothing - no one is there -but the sky is, and I remember that I like the sky so I crouch down, take a really deep breath and look at Ed, and nod my head. Out-in-go, I am out, and I am arching, and I am back in my playground, and I feel the wind reaching for me, and holding me, cradling me, and I am free again. Free, and in total wonder and awe, and joyous because I can fly, I am not scared anymore and that I can reach out into the sky. I get steady, and then Ed lets me go. I immediately start to spin, but slow enough for it to not worry me. I check the altitude and then I look in front of me, expecting Ed, but he's not there, so I turn my head to look for him, and here he is, so I try to correct myself and I am laughing because I see him in front of me then he's gone again going up, and I am by myself and I am fine and it's so incredible and intense and I see Ed again, and Mike the camera man, and Ed looks kind of funny because he keeps moving around and I can tell I'm not moving much anymore because the mountains aren't moving too much, and I check the alti and it's 7 and I try to tell Ed because he's in front of me again but then he's gone again and I laugh, trying to find him, looking over my shoulder, and I look back to my altimeter, and even though there's no-one in sight, I shake my head and stare at my altimeter because it's at 6 and then here comes Ed again but I signal I'm pulling and then I pull and now I am floating - the sudden silence is deafening. I shout wordless joy into the wind, and I do a canopy check, and everything looks great, and I look to the horizon and I see other parachutes and bright colors, it looks like a Picasso painting up here. There is such a blueness to the sky! I face into the sun, and let the immense grandness of this sight take my heart away. But then I remember I want to practice something this time, so I try to do some of the things I have learned here; I go to half brakes and try a flat turn for 360, which goes really well, and then I sashay across the sky, and I turn to get back to the dropzone, and then I see the moon. The three quarters moon over the desert, sharing the bright blue daylight sky with me. And it is glowing, alive, alight, silver, and I want to go there, I want to get closer, I want to be there, and I fly straight at it for a while, and then remember I have to be somewhere soon. And then suddely the radio crackles, but it is not Ed. It is a news report, talking about arson versus an electrical fire at the local animal shelter, and I start to laugh. I hear the whole story, and I have lost myself in the sky so now I finally look down, and turn into the wind for my final leg. And I know I am not going to make it, I am way off target and there's this 6 foot culvert or canal, dry and compact, right where my path should put me, so I try to decide should I go for the far side but then decide not to because I might do a Wiley Coyote into the side of it and that would hurt, then Ed says flare and I do, and I am late, but I get it down on the far side of the canal, but the edge is right there, so I slide into second base with the spikes up, ground the chute, gather it into my arms, and slide down into the canal. Which is not the right move by any stretch of the imagination, because now I have to try to climb up the other side with the chute in my arms and I try to, but I can't, I just slide down the side and get a faceful of burrs and stickers and then the guy with the red 4X4 pulls up, and tries to help, but that doesn't work either. We get over to a tree, and I hand him my chute and clamber up, and then I am in the truck and we are back at the school and Mike and Ed are there, and they tell me I really have to work on my arch, and then say I fall faster than rocks, and we all laugh but I really don't get it until I see the video, and everyone is laughing because Ed was working so hard to keep up with me. Then Nelson hugged me, and we all went into the Bombshelter, and I bought beer for Mike and another instructor because Ed had already left. I talked with DiverDave (you are really a cool guy! - nice, too) for a while. I start home at sunset, crimson and orange muting into blues and greys and blacks, and drive through the softening darkness, back into the daily world, and I feel almost sad. I flew by myself today. And I soared along the path of the sun, and I chased the moon. I hope your weekend is as spectacular. Ciel bleu- Michele

I'm willing to take all that is attendant with a relationship.....waiting.....for a partner, a real *partner*......... Where's the man for me???????????????????? (lol) CB - Michele

Morning, Mouth I didn't think you were male bashing - of course, I am a woman, so maybe I don't see it....but nonjumpers find it wasy to bash us (men and women) without a second thought. "Nuts" "not for me" (well, who asked ya', anyway???), etc. If we said that to them for something they hold dear, would the s*&t fly then! I had a conversation with a co-worker and her sister last night at the office - turns out her sister wants to tandem (yeha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), but my co-worker thinks I am trying to kill her sister. So she calls a friend of hers, puts him of the speaker phone, and proceeds to have him relate a story of someone he knows who just came out of the hospital after a skydiving accident.....seems the wind was suddenly wrong when this unknown man landed, so he blew it and got hurt. It was the wind, mind you, according to this unmet whuffo (and it may have been, too, but it didn't sound like the wind from the way he described it - more like a low turn). I walked out on the conversation at the point where he thought it was appropriate to tell me "you are really uneducated, obviously no college, did you even graduate high school?" and he wasn't joking...... I didn't try to explain to him that while I appreciated his concern for my welfare (sarcasm here), and while I acknowledged that he just would not have been able to ever jump out of the plane, he has absolutely no right to pass a judgement on me for doing something he would never do......and he doesn't even know me......and frankly, I don't want to know someone like that, either (no great loss). So, I jump today. And I taste the freedom, and fall in love again, with the sky and with life, and to heck with this unknown man and his thoughts that I am uneducated.....I will be free, for a short time, free..... just my thoughts here..... Ciel bleu Michele

O.K., so.....as a single woman, and someone who has recently discovered skydiving, it is the same way for me (very third word is about diving somehow, even if no-one understands the comment....). And, as a girl, it really bothers the men I know that I do something like this. I had been really causually dating someone, but he told me that he thought I was taking too many risks. It occurred to me that the real risk was going out with him again, so I didn't ("You are the weakest link...bye bye...). As for the pictures, I am waiting for a really good one of me, 'cause there's this empty space on my office wall that needs one of skydiving. I find it unnerves the guys I talk to when I tell them about skydiving. I am lucky, and have a group of friends who, while never willing to jump themselves, are totally willing to listen to my tales, thoughts, cravings about this sport. It's funny, there are three guys who are walking around my office with broken arms from playing softball or volleyball, but they think I'm the dangerous one...lol. As a strong, independent woman, this only freaks them out more.....too bad for them! Trees - they give you shade, but they are only launching points for the birds. (sigh) Ciel bleu - Michele

Jeff - "I drive 400+ miles to and from the drop zone on the weekend". Let's factor that out (lol) If you go every weekend, 52 weeks per year, you will be driving 20,800 miles. Now compare your average weekend jump number to that data set (Unknown/?[average 5 jumps per day, 2 days=10 per week]). According to the numbers, you are more likely to die in a car accident than you are jumping. No, wait, you're more likely to die diving....no, wait, I forgot about the grocery shopping, so car it is...no wait, you might do a low turn, so there's new data..... I got it! Walk to the DZ off the road, and then just watch!!!!!!!!!!! (I gotta go to work!!!!!!!!!!) lol Ciel Bleu - Michele

Thanks, Grogs.... It looks like I used a different number set that you did. Where'd you get the data? I must have missed something (I took mine from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration site). In the data set for sydiving, I used a median number (2.5 million) as opposed to your hard number (3.4). And it was a straight comparison of 100k~m/100k~j, rather than typical miles driven/number of skydives made. But no problem - I appreciate your correcting me - I can always learn. Thanks again - Ciel bleu- Michele

Hit by a car at 7 years old (aka first attempt at flying...lol). Not at fault accident 7 years ago. Not at fault accident 6.8 years ago At fault accident 1 year ago. My stats cover my entire family!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol Speedy, I got you confused w/Geekstreak in comments - sorry. Ciel Bleu Michele

Morning, Viper You wrote: "The real comparison is when you compare the number of deaths v. the number of events that would cause a death". I did just that - on the first post, I compared the number of deaths per 100,000 in things like poisoning, drowning, fire, etc. I did not compare the numbers of events in natural hazards, ie. lightning strikes, because that is not an accurate comparison (one year may have lower storm numbers than another year, one hurricane can kill many at once); I provided them as a snapshot or touchstone, as it were. I did compare the vehicle deaths (6,289 per 100,000 mi/d) to the skydiving stats, but perhaps it wasn't clear. I'll try again. When it was requested that someone present the numbers as a straight comparison to licensed drivers to licensed skydiviers, I found the numbers, and brought that up in my second post. So, a straight, Vehicle/100,000 to Skydiving/100,000 comparison would look like this: Vehicle: Fatalities per 100,000 miles: Raw data: 6,289,000 police reported accidents; 3,200,000 injuries~41,345 fatalities. Converted to 100,000 miles driven, it looks like this: Per 100,000 miles driven: 6,289 accidents Per 100,000 miles driven: 152.11 accidents which result in a fatality. Therefore: Per 100,000 miles driven, your chances of having an accident which results in a fatality is 2.42% ([(a)?]/(d)=%) In skydiving, there are ~2,500,000 jumps made per year. We need to translate the (d):(j) ratio into increments of 100,000. 2,500,000(j) to 100,000 (i) provides a factor of 25 (25x100,000=2,500,000). Therefore, the formula should look like this: (2.5m)over(d)=% or .0012% or 100,000/.0012= .83% ([(j)?]/(d)=%) (my brain is all tangled.....) Side by side, here it is: v/d per 100k = 2.42% s/d per 100k= 0.83% Disclaimer: I have not taken into consideration heart attacks, suicide, or (other). I have not taken into consideration those factors in vehicle deaths, either. I was unable to determine the submorbidity catagories for any of the statistics I quoted above, so used general catagories (e.g.: "poisoning" as opposed to poisoning/murder/accidental/other). Raw, uncrunched numbers, straight comparison, and no interpretation..... And no, Geekstreak, I am a former housewife, no college or "higher" education, just really curious as to what the numbers showed. ciel bleu - Michele

I have been taught that if I can't get to my main cord, or if I tug and it doesn't come out, then I am to look and see if there's anything over my head. If nothing is there, then I pull silver. If there's something (pilot chute, or something) there, I pull red, arch, THEN silver. And there is no time to second guess - just do as I have been taught. Of course, I am still pulling at about 5k, so I have more time to look. As to 1800' emergency out, I am to leave the plane WITH my hand on silver, and pull immediately out of the plane. "Just run out of the door with my hands on silver?" "Yep, get the hell out, and get something over your head immediately - and then look for a good spot to land. Forget the DZ". This is such a great discussion! Thanks everyone! Ciel bleu - Michele

they own vcrs but have no way to play them hamsters run too slow (did I really write that?)

Thank you, Diver123. Something new learned! Ciel bleu- Michele

Fallnwoman, here are the stats from the National Highway Traffic Safety Association (under the DOT): There were 187.2 million licensed drivers in 1999. Police reported vehicle crashes: 6,289,000. Injuries other than fatal: 3,200,000 Fatalities: 42,345 If I've done the math correctly (no guarantee there - my dinosaur 10-key doesn't handle that many zeros, so it's by hand...), that would mean: 187,200,000 licensed drivers to fatalities incurred while driving: .55208% Possibility of getting into an accident is 5.82% Whereas in skydiving (again, I am not certain of the statistics), 35,000 licensed jumpers make an estimated 2.5 million jumps per year (median estimation) 20-30 fatalities per year (let's use the high figure: 30) 30 fatalities divided by 35,000 licensed jumpers: .87% Or 35,000 jumpers make an estimated 2,500,000 combined jumps. .014 jumps result in death. Of course, I have utterly confused my poor little brain, so if someone wants to double check the numbers, please don't hesitate to correct me. The stats are directly from the site indicated above. And as to me bringing up a subject that has been talked about a million times, I do sincerely apologize. I didn't read those threads. I'm sorry for bringing up trampled ground. ciel bleu - Michele

So, being homebound and bored, I cruised around the 'net to see what I could find about fatality statistics. Most of these are old(er) (1998-1999), but they may give a glimpse of the risk factors in some areas of life. I looked for and found some interesting things, and most of the websites were "reputable" (i.e., CDC, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Coast Guard, NHTSA, NOAA). And I will not vouch for the veracity of the stats. I will also state that many times I was unable to locate the comparable rates (per 100,000 deaths? Times per activity? Against population as a whole?) so there is a lot of apples to oranges here (also pears, grapes, bananas, cantaloupe...) New Cancer reports: 1.4 million per year (US only) Natural Events (Deaths per year): Lightning strikes: 51 Tornado: 29 Thunderstorms/Winds: 25 Hail: 2 Cold/Exposure: 15 Heat/Exposure: 158 Flood (flash, river, urban): 37 Marine/Coastal Storm: 25 Winter storm: 33 Avalanche: 12 High Wind: 20 Fire weather: 3 (I don't know what this means....) SUV Turnover fatalities: 62% of SUV accidents are rollovers. Total reported deaths from SUV rollovers: 10,694 Motor vehicle deaths: 6,944 (per 100,000 vehicle miles) per year Per 100,000 deaths: Poisoning: 2,152 per year Drowning: 811 Fire: 260 Pedestrian: 136 Boating: 811 "Risk Sports" deaths per year: Scuba diving: 160 (averaged) Skiing: 40 per year (averaged) Skydiving: 30 per year (averaged) (CYPRES: 92% of deaths were "human error") (huge grab bag there) No interpretation from me. But it looks like I am more likely to get killed by lightning then by skydiving....... ciel bleu - Michele

you crack me up!!!!!!!!!!!! .27....... If you have a problem and correct it, does that count as "starting over"? If so, that means I still have 72,726.27 to go.....lol

Hi, Matt I am very new, as well. And I understand the risks. You will be taught how to handle yourself in an emergency, but it's up to you to handle yourself. And you CAN do it (this is something I know). There is no mystery in handling an emergency. You will be taught everything you need to know before getting into the air. The only advice I can give you is: learn. learn, learn, learn. Read all the back posts here (excellent information). Follow the links supplied here. Ask your instructors everything you can think of, whether you think it's important or not - they're there to teach you. Post your questions here, and you will get tons of help, encouragement, and helpful info (thanks again, everyone). And then, jump. And trust yourself. And discover this sport's intensity, and freedom, and joy. One of the interesting things I have learned in the last week is: everything we do has inherent risk. Some of those risks are less than others, but everything has risks. Yes, this is a "high risk" sport, but as was stated above, you never hear the statistic that there were 2,000,000 safe jumps this year. If I've done the math right, that would mean that 1 in 72,727.27 jumps ends in death (2mil/27.5 deaths). People around you won't understand. They can't, unless they've jumped themselves. That's o.k., but you can't let their opinions become your life. People around you will tell you all sorts of things. Let them talk, but when you know different, don't take those comments into yourself. Find your own way in this - learn (did I say that before?), ask, do. Just my opinions. Ciel bleu - Michele

roflmao - out loud!!!!!!!! Um, does being on student status help any? At the rate I'm going, I'll never get to put aside any $ for a rig...sigh... Ciel bleu Michele

So, I sent it in, and here is their response: "Hi, Michelle. Managing Editor Nancy Koreen may review your submission after she returns on July 6, but if it has already been posted on the internet, it would be generally against Parachutist policy to reprint it. Thanks, and I'm glad you made out OK. Kevin Gibson Director of Communications" So, well, we'll see. Maybe my beer debt won't be increased, after all..... and that would mean Sangiro has a "scoop"!! lol. (Just a really yucky thought: if I hadn't made it out o.k., I'll bet it would have been printed there....oh - banish the thought......kay, it's gone) And Wildblue, thanks...it really feels that way, doesn't it? ciel bleu Michele

O.K., (gulp) I did it. Just sent it in. And you're right, Carl, second tier! (so, if I get "published", does that mean I owe even more beer? - it would be a first! lol) ciel bleu Michele

Hi, Dan What he said. lol. I have a pretty good kenetic sense, a pretty good inner ear/balance capacity. But how do I know if I am off? Or is it just a time thing - the more I jump, the more I will feel "balanced" or "unbalanced" in the harness? And by level flight do you mean actually level, or at a constant rate of descent and steady forward speed? Sorry for the languaging, but I haven't figured out all the right terms yet. Thanks - Michele

PhillyKev - Really? Michele

Well, fine, but here in Cali we get to jump all year long!!!!!!!!!!!! Ciel bleu- M

I am so glad you're o.k.! Whew! Michele