baronn

Yep. Pretty sure most non fatal accidents don't get reported. Explain how reporting these to the USPA can change any of those outcomes? News flash, nobody wants to get hurt or killed. Personally I think that's a pretty big motivator. It's also a big reason the AAD's were invented. Not the threat of retaliation for using them. I'm all for keeping as many informed and as safe as is practical. The reality is, we are jumping from airplanes and there are limits to what can be done. The info I found was available to anyone that asked. Not my job to babysit the board. They could have said they found that info and still decided to pass the BSR. Who knows? The meetings claim to be open yet, they aren't broadcast live and they don't bother to even ask members input before passing questionable things like this and the Museum fiasco. They continue to act in a manner that doesn't lend to credibility. Yet, we are continually being asked to :Trust" their judgement. Another News Flash, Trust is earned, time for the Board to prove they understand that....

Clearly you had to look that up......

Not sure what "Skewed" means to you. I do agree that this poll does not represent what may be the total. I said that. I attempted to gather as many facts as I cude and use that to come to a reasonable conclusion. I put a hypothetical number on this for some kind of a base. Is it accurate? Doubtful. What it does represent is high probability of less than 1% of jumps done have an AAD fire. Is that number rite? maybe, maybe not. Is this a reason to mandate a report for an AAD fire and possible disciplinary action by the USPA? Not IMO....

Well, a few specific, witnessed fires, quite a few more "I heard, was told" references and a riggers experience. All told, 17 witness fires and possible 7. Total of 24 from this impromptu poll over 10 yrs that equals 2.4 per yr. I'm sure the number is higher than that as this doesn't reach everyone. Let's multiply it by 10 and put 24 a yr. Pretty low number. How many were instructor jumps? Hard to say. We teach students to be altitude aware, practice it, do our best to remind them on the jump and are told by the USPA to NOT chase a student below 2500'. IF we follow their rules and it still fires on a student, we are threatened with disciplinary action if we don't report it in 48 hrs. Nice.

I musta missed the part where the BOD simply asked for this info without indicating any disciplinary action. And everyone else that has indicated they don't agree with this move. I did the research that they shude have done. The stats I got from Airtec are free to everyone who asked. Still waiting to hear from Vigil. Point is, if they wanted to know how often this is happening, they cude have asked DZO's or they're S&TA's. They didn't. Instead, they went rite to the heavy handed approach. Yer entitled to your own opinion, you aren't entitled to your own facts. Continue to bury your head in the sand. The rest of us will continue to keep our eyes open.

Judging from the responses seen here, I don't believe anyone is opposed to gathering info to attempt to be proactive on avoiding problems in the future. Where I (and it seems a few others here) have a problem , is why is this all of a sudden needed? What events have changed over the last 25+ yrs since modern AAD's have been around that is giving them an indication that the threat of "disciplinary" action is even needed? I have heard of 1 TI that fired an AAD. He was let go by the DZO. Because of actions I have seen the board do in situations like this in the past, it makes me wary of why. Seems like an answer to a non problem and that is almost always a red flag for what the REAL reason is. So far, doesn't seem like that's been answered.....

I got a reply from Aitec today. According to their rep, they've shipped 4750 replacement cutters to the US since 2011. This includes all their dealers and the military. The person I contacted felt the vast majority of these went to the military. That wude make sense. I find it difficult to believe 678 (average) per yr have been fired by sport use.

Anybody know what happened to Bob Sinclairs van? Man, that thing is the closest we have to Museum. We need to find it.

Seems this has stalled out. Not too surprising. I believe most skydivers haven't had this happen and most don't care what the USPA does with the BSR's. I am concerned about the decisions I see coming from the board as I believe some of them are not in touch with what is actually happening in our sport today. It is encouraging that we now have an active skydiver as Prez and an S&T director that has come up thru the ranks as both an active sport jumper and instructor. I personally feel the BSR for reporting this is unnecessary. I simply cannot see why the board feels they need to intervene with the hint of retaliation against its own dues paying members if they don't comply. Absolutely 0 assurance this will be kept confidential with a statistically average use of 1 in 37,500 jumps. I think this just shows where the BOD's attention is and IMO, it's in the wrong direction.

Mite want to read your own advice before giving it to others. 1st line; The principal responsibility of the S&TA is to promote safe skydiving. Toward that goal, the S&TA serves specific advisory and administrative functions: Observes skydiving operations to verify compliance with the Basic Safety Requirements Listen, we can go back and forth like this all day. It comes rite down to the same question I asked at the beginning, Is this a real Problem?. Not 1 person has answered that. Fire an AAD and it's a minimum of a 225 jump. Any student that does that will get a thorough refreshing on alti awareness and a bill. Can't imagine anyone making a habit out of this.So keep yer " For safety" speeches and give a REAL reason this suddenly needs to change...

According to their website, they have an estimated 4000 saves. Out of an estimated 123,000,000 jumps (as of 2016), that equals approx. 1 save every 37,750 jumps. Hardly a "Problem" like the BOD and the new Safety and Training director are saying. Now, to be fair, we don't know how many of those were on a tandem or a training jump but, I'd be willing to bet very few

In response to the new BSR that the BOD just passed, I'm curious how many have had or witnessed an AAD fire last year? Out of those, how many were by instructors? Please no names or places at this time Thanks

So suddenly, having this report is somehow important? We get a new a new S&T and this becomes a priority? Please share with us why? I know Ron and am surprised he wanted this. Not a single person has come on this forum and given anything close to a reason for it. Just the usual, "We discussed it and we came to this and blah, blah, blah...."

No problem. IF this is true, they can simply collect it from the S&TA. This is completely un-necessary to have the members report it.

Assuming and trusting those who haven't earned it or have proven they don't deserve it, is a mistake. Those elected to the board seem to forget they are elected to REPRESENT the membership. Not turn into matriarch's who feel they need to rule thru intimidation and un-necessary rules. To whoever came up with this stupid idea, GET BACK IN YOUR LANE! We're getting fed up with these dumb decisions...…..

The BOD has a long record of going after organizations they disagree with or simply don't like. The main point here is, why now? Has there suddenly been a rash of AAD's firing? Do you really think anyone, Student, AFF instr or Camereperson actually wants to fire an AAD? If there isn't any injuries, this is a non event. Shude be handled on the DZ side (as it always has up till now) and left there. Seems to me we have MUCH more important issues which need attention besides this. For instance the ISMHOF fiasco...….

Please explain how an incident report is destroyed after it has been published?

May want to get familiar before making uninformed remarks. I am not nor do I believe any instructors are :Fearful" of being accountable for their actions. If they were, doing AFF is not a very good choice. Have you ever been to a DZ? Make ANY mistake, perceived or real and everybody and their brother will be critiquing it. As far as I know (incident reports/Parachutist/personal experience), this has not been a problem in the past.. AFF has been around awhile. And all of a sudden, this needs to remedied? My experience tells me there's more to this. I cude be wrong but, I'm usually not. Let's see.

Simple answer They won't. To put ANY trust in the Board is a major mistake. I can easily see some members of the board using this info against anyone/organization they may have a dispute with. They have a long track record of doing that. Couple of options: Stop doing AFF in any way shape or form. IF this happens, keep it under wraps anyway necessary (Bribes, sexual favors, etc...) If yer the camera guy or instructors, don't use the AAD. Or, do what appears the USPA is trying to do. Quit working in this sport and go save the Elephants... The USPA, "If it ain't broke, We'll fix it!"

Put the refurb'd gear in and had the old NDT'd. Passed and then sent them to be shotpeened. Will have them back in a week.. I'll have them for sale if anyone is interested. I was told by the shotpeen guy that they do a lot of these for Textron (Cessna Parent co.) Clearly Cessna feels its a good idea even though it hasn't been recommended or mandated. Have a few more snap off and it's likely the FAA will change that. As any A or B model is over 60 yrs old and knockin on 15-20K cycles, it really it is amazing it's not happened more often

This was the most important thing for the board to do? Don't get me wrong, that's an important thing but, it seems that shude be an S&TA DZO issue. Maybe I missed how big of an issue this is. I've only seen it happen once.....

A new York judge has just approved the use of social media to determine insurance rates. What this means, is they will be able to assess rate increases if they see you participating in "Risky" activities. I always had to laugh when I paid extra because I jumped out of planes but, they never batted an eyelash about climbing trees. Easily 1 of the most dangerous jobs on the planet. BTW skydive instructor isn't even on the list.

NDT testing is the way to go. I acquired a set of gear legs and had them tested. Came back good. I wanna swap the1's in my plane and put these in. My mechanic thinks it's unnecessary. I'm gonna do it anyway.

I've seen this happen once. Pretty devastating damage to the aircraft. I'm a big believer in prevention when I can. Mine is a 1958 182B. Has the flat steel gear legs Is this something to be concerned about?

I'd love to attend the BOD meeting as I have a LOT of questions. I (like many) operate our DZ's on most weekends and can't ignore that. The Symposium is going on most of the week. They couldn't have scheduled the meeting at a time when members actually cude attend? Really shows how the BOD is completely out of touch with their members.