steve1

I don't mean to be argumentive about all this. I'd like to learn more. I don't think that any radiation is perfect. There are dangers involved, even with Proton Radiation. It just seems like the best option to me, by far. There is tons of proof on the effectiveness of Proton Radiation. The insurance companies don't want to admit that because it costs them more. This is changing. Today most insurance companies will pay for Proton treatment. More than 180 companies have paid for it in the past. Loma Linda usually can convince insurance companies to pay for this. So, I'm hoping it all works out.

There are two things holding back Proton Radiation treatment. One is the higher cost. Two is old school doctors who are not willing to admit that there is a better treatment. It's not easy to admit that what you were trained in is obsolete. More and more evidence is being produced each year, stating the superiority of proton treatment. Yes, there are still doctors and studies that say say the opposite. Further clinical trials will bring out the truth. The cost is coming down. With shorter treatment periods and advances in technology the initial cost will be brought down greatly. Insurance companies will quit griping when that happens. The initial cost of treatment, with protons is often exaggerated. The cost is not three times higher, as this article states. Proton Radiation is about $8,000 more than IMRT for the treatment. To say that IMRT has just as few side effects is ridiculous. I'm not 80 years old, so I do worry about secondary cancers. It's also important to figure the cost to treat side effects and complications. If the job is done right the first time, there will not be problems later. This can add up to a huge amount of money. And how do you put a price on quality of life? I don't want to spend my remaining years wearing a diaper or wearing a urine bag. I'm not willing to give up my sex life. I don't want an old school treatment. Nor do I want IMRT. Who knows what the long term damage is from that. It's new. As far as complications in the short term or later, ask people who have had Proton Radiation done. 99 % are willing to say they are satisfied with the treatment they received. Most of the people getting Proton Radiation, at Loma Linda, are being treated for Prostrate Cancer. Conclusive proof may be coming twenty years from now. I don't have that long to wait. I don't listen to old school doctors stating that their treatment is just as good. Where is there proof? One or two studies isn't enough.

That's a good question.....Maybe I better wait til this last appeal is over with. Then I plan to tell the world what I really think of them. Maybe I'll even get a law suit for slander. At this point I hate their guts. If they pay for my treatment, I'll say that I love them....

I've decided that I might opt for a prostate transplant. I'm not sure how much that will cost. I was thinking of getting one out of a black stallion. I know they can transplant pig hearts, and that sort of thing, so a horse prostate shouldn't be that much harder??? After that they may have to keep me away from good looking women. I might start snorting, and squealing, and go galloping after one of them.

The bottom line is that randomized clinical trials have never been done to determine which prostate cancer treatment is better. So, it's impossible to say which treatment is best. There is a ton of research that shows that Proton Radiation is at least as good as any treatment out there for killing the cancer. Where Proton Radiation is clearly superior is in terms of side effects. 99% of men treated with proton radiation for prostate cancer are happy with their treatment. This comes from a recent study done this year. Compare that to other treatments. Most men, that I've met, who had other treatments, are depressed as hell. Most are impotent. Many have huge problems with incontinence. Not to mention other side effects. Almost 100,000 men have been treated with Proton Radiation. Most state that their life after treatment is as good or better than it was before. The treatment is painless, non-evasive, and no recovery time is needed. The radiation is safe enough to even use on children. Yet exact enough for brain cancer. I truly believe that once the cost comes down, it will make the other forms of radiation obsolete. Twenty years ago, there was one treatment place for Proton Radiation, Loma Linda. Now there are ten in the U.S. Each one costs 200 million to build. Ten more are under construction,with ten more in the planning stages. Soon there will be thirty in the U.S. There are 23 in other countries. Why would investors spend that kind of money if it was no better than IMRT? IMRT is new. It's only been around for ten or fifteen years. Noone really knows all the side effects from that. The bottom line is that X-ray radiation (also called photon radiation) is dangerous. You're being exposed to thousands of times the radiation you might get from a dental x-ray. It is destroying healthy tissues on it's entire path through your body. Comare that to Proton Radiation. With Proton, the radiation activates when it hits the tumor and then stops. It's like comparing a smart bomb to a cluster blomb. Radiation can cause secondary cancers. The chance of secondary cancers is twice as great when comparing IMRT to Proton Radiation. The chance of secondary cancers from Proton is almost zero. X-ray radiation also makes you tired and sick. I just talked with a lady who had x-ray radiation for her cancer. She said it was worse than chemo. I'm not sure if you glow in the dark after IMRT, but I don't want it. There have been a ton of studies stating the absence of side effects from Proton Radiation. That includes short term or long term side effects. There is even a following of hundreds of men who have had proton radiation for prostate cancer. They are called "Brotherhood of the Balloon". These men are willing to tell anyone how superior Proton Radiation is. Name another treatment that has a fan club like that? I was told that if I paid cash, Loma Linda would settle for $80,000. Most places charge closer to $125,000. I've read that IMRT is about $8,000 less that Proton Radiation. I'd gladly pay the difference but the insurance company is saying either pick another treatment or get little or nothing. Yep, I agree....Insurance companies are a racket!

While it may have looked like this to you as an outsider, you really don't know why he was there or what "expensive cancer treatment" he was there to receive. As an employee of a large NCI, my experience is that people without private insurance do not get the latest and greatest treatments. So try to take comfort in knowing that he was likely not there to receive the same treatment you were denied for. Good luck, I know the insurance companies are frustrating.

I was diagnosed with prostate cancer many months ago. There are some terrible treatment options for that, so I read everything I could find on the subject. I decided that Proton Radiation was by far the best way to go. I figured it would have the best quality of life after treatment. I didn't want the terrible side effects and complications that go along with the other treatments. So, I signed up for treatment at Loma Linda Hospital in California. Over the years, my place of employment has paid in hundreds of thousands of dollars for health insurance. I figured I was well covered, if disaster ever struck. A week before the wife and I went down to Loma Linda, the insurance company notified us that they weren't paying because Proton Radiation costs more than the other brand-X treatments. We're on the third appeal in this mess, and things still don't look good. We decided to go on down to Loma Linda and meet with our Doctor. The hospital said they would help us fight the insurance company if we did that. I was truly impressed with what they have to offer down there. I would love to have their treatment. We were standing outside the hospital enjoying the warm weather, when a van pulled up, with a cage in the back. Out of the cage steps a very large black man, dressed in orange jump suit and shackles. With his jailer in tow, he shuffled into the hospital where he was able to receive the best, most expensive cancer treatment in the world. There I stand, someone who has worked hard all his life, trying to do the right thing, just to find out his insurance isn't worth crap. I struggle with the concept that life isn't fair! Does this piss anyone else off, or is it just me!

If you would have asked me a couple years back, on what the best home defense weapon is, I'd have picked a shotgun. After shooting a pistol a lot recently, I'd rather have that. Don't get me wrong, a shotgun is still a good choice, but we all have our druthers. Most home, shootouts are up close and personal. A pistol would be better for that, in my mind. You can hold your pistol out in a supported position or you can shoot with it up close to your body. With a long gun, I feel it could be swatted to one side or even be taken away from you if someone is up close. A shotgun with buckshot, would definitely stop an attacker more quickly than a pistol. It might take multiple hits from a pistol to do that. With birdshot there would be less chance of shooting through walls. It's easier to point and shoot a long gun. So, there are pluses to a shotgun too. I'd never trust something like rock salt for home defense. It isn't much of a fight stopper. It might just make someone madder than they already are. If I have a Meth-head in my house, someone who has every intention of killing me, or my family, I want something that is going to put them down. The racking sound of a shotgun may have little effect on someone who is out of their head on drugs. One more draw back of a shotgun is that it may not have the big pattern that everyone wants a shotgun for. If a perp. is up close, it may have no bigger pattern than a rifle. So, these are all things that need to be considered. I do have a short barrelled 870 in my closet. I plan to attach some slugs to the outside of it. Since it has sights I could shoot out to a hundred yards if need be. No, my house isn't that big, but it might be good to have, if the fight went outside, and a longer shot was needed. Buck shot, or bird shot isn't worth much at longer ranges. A slug would also penetrate a heavy baricade if needed. When the Zombies attack, I'm going to be ready.

Well said Duluth! Your words brought back a lot of memories....

In my office I have an American flag on my wall. It was given to me by this same Airborne Ranger who was once my student. He carried that flag into combat on more than one occaision in Afganistan (in his pack). It was truly an honor to receive such a gift. I can't think of many possessions I value more. I like reading books about War, but to tell you the truth I don't have a clue how terrible that must be. I plan to retire this Spring, from the school I work for. I'd like to work for the V.A. next. These guys need our help. Kyle was doing just that when he was killed. Working as a therapist with combat vets could be dangerous. I talked with a woman once who was a high ranking Naval officer. She was a therapist working with Vets. I asked her, if she might be a little frightened to work with some of these guys. Some of them had killed many times. Violence is part of their job. Therapy sometimes brings out a lot of anger in a person. She said she wasn't too frightened and she is continuing to see vets every day. She said SEALS and RECON marines are usually very resistant to therapy. These guys are hard core. Talking about feelings doesn't come easy for them. I talked with another therapist who was a clinical psychologist. He said he has been threatened several times in sessions. One guy was going to hit him with a chair. This work may not be easy to do.....Maybe I need to rethink this some. I'm not near as brave as some folks. Maybe I should just retire and be a skydiving bum!

. Then why did you just do it? No free passes on this one. You just did exactly what you're complaining about. . I'd like this not to be a gun thread. Don't you ever get sick of arguing the same arguments over and over about guns. I was on these forums ten years ago and the same people were arguing that same stuff then. Some people must love it. I get sick of hearing the same arguments over and over again by the same people. There's plenty of other things we can discuss in this thread other than how evil guns are. So, let's just leave guns out of this one. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Quibbling over that is not honoring Chris Kyle's memory. I think what this tragedy really brings to light is, what can we do to better help veterans returning from combat. I had a student who was in my classroom twenty years ago. I sometimes told stories about my times in the army. Mostly airborne jump stories. When he joined the army I told him, to be sure you go Airborne. He was thinking of going Special Forces too. He thought he'd join the Rangers first. Today he is over in Afganistan serving his third tour. He's an Airborne Ranger. His Dad is over in Afganistan too. His Dad had his pickup blown up a few weeks ago. His older brother served in Iraq, and was wounded there. I used to work with the mother of this family. She is waiting at home, worried sick that something bad is going to happen to her husband and son. Some people give a lot for their country. I sometimes wonder if I was the one who convinced this young man to join the army and go Airborne. I just hope he can survive all this and come home undamaged physically or mentally. The last time he came home, I could tell that the war was wearing on him. His biggest concern was that nobody seemed to care about what was going on over there. I'm grateful that people seem to be supporting our combat veterans a lot, these days. There's probably a lot more we should do to help them....

A true American hero is murdered, and then someone tries to build a anti-gun thread around his name. I think Chris Kyle deserves better than that. I read his book quite a while back. I don't think most people know that Kyle was a Texas cowboy. He rode saddle bronc, and was well on his way to becoming a champion. He ended up being busted up really bad and he had to give up the sport he loved. He was lucky to even get in the navy because of his previous injuries. I've only met a few men who made it through SEAL training. I look up to anyone who can accomplish that. SEAL sniper training also washes out a lot of men. Number one, you have to be smart, have the ability to think under pressure, and never quit. Chris Kyle has more confirmed kills than any other sniper, in our history. He did it to protect himself and his fellow soldiers. I can't recall all the exploits in his book. One of those stands out in my memory though. He was dragging a wounded Marine to safety. The guy died in his arms. That alone shows the true character of this man. Is it any wonder so many veterans are having problems when they come back. Many are trained to kill, and then they go to combat where they suffer horrendous trauma. Anger enables them to do their job. Then they are asked to return to civilian life and be like everyone else. They are asked to turn off all that they learned in combat. Sometimes that is next to impossible. These men are not the same young men when they come back. It may take years, just to learn how to cope in a healthy way. I think the biggest reason why I respect Kyle is that he was trying to help his fellow combat veterans after he got out of the Navy. He knew how hard this was. He had issues himself. Kyle took many Vets out hunting and shooting. That is what he did growing up, and he knew it could help. Many Vets did benefit from that. Yes, this sort of thing can trigger past trauma in some. Maybe this wasn't the best approach for a Vet who has serious emotional issues. It's too bad that Kyle was killed by a friend. Noone is infallable. Kyle probably never saw it coming. I don't know volumes about exposure therapy. It does need to be done carefully. Triggering too many feelings too fast can send someone off the deep end. That is probably what happened to the guy that murdered Kyle. It is easy to hate the guy that did it, or to call him a nut case, or worse. It is also understandable when you look at what some of these guys have been through. Anyone else have some thoughts on this?

I'm no expert on any of this, but I've been doing plumbing a long time. At one time, I was a plumber's apprentice. They ran out of work, so I went back to work in the woods. Codes are tricky. Some places don't have any. It depends on how far back in the sticks you are. Most people use PVC for drain pipes these days. Cast iron with lead and oakum went out of style a very long time ago. Pay attention to getting air behind water on your drains. They need to be vented properly. You might need some sound advice on this. Ask a pro, not the next door handyman. They still make CPVC plastic pipe. You can use that for both hot and cold water supply. It glues together, just like PVC. It takes a different glue though. The bad news is that it breaks easily when a line freezes. This new PEX piping is wonderful stuff. Almost everyone is using it now, because of it's ease of use. Copper isn't too hard to work with, once you learn how to soldier. Use the PEX pipe...it's just a lot easier. You'll need to buy a crimping tool. I've used some shark bite fittings. They seem expensive, but work well. I don't know much about them. As someone mentioned you might have to cut a lot of holes, if you redo everything. That might be a huge job. I watch Holmes on Homes all the time. Sometimes it's best to hire a professional to do things right the first time. Maybe you can do the grunt work for a pro. Don't dive into a job that is way over your head. Mistakes will cost you a lot later.... Most plumbing work is fairly easy. I sometimes ask a ton of questions to a variety of people before diving into something I'm not familiar with.

Our school staff is the decision maker in all this. It isn't our administration. If the staff decides to give this cheapskate insurance company the boot, that is what will happen. I think I'm doing the right thing, by getting them riled up....

I'm finding out that one big lever in all of this is the fact that I work for a large school district. We pay this insurance company something like three million, a year. Everyone in my school is pissed about the run around I'm getting. In their efforts to save money, this insurance company is going to lose big, if they continue to deny payment. I think our school is ready to drop this insurance company like a hot rock...... I received a letter from the head of this insurance company the other day. It had about three inches of butter all over it, saying how concerned he was. Then he attached an opinion article stating how the treatment I want is not any better than old school treatments, yet it costs a lot more. That letter not only went to me, but to the president of our state union (MEA). So, I wrote him back stating how I thought his attached article was B.S., I also sent that to the president of the union. I hate playing games like this, but what else can you do. My appeal process is still underway. I'm starting to feel more optimistic.....

We've got an apt. with a Dr. at Loma Linda next week. I'm hoping he will write a letter and give me some help fighting the insurance company. It may be a long flight for nothing, but I'm not willing to quit on this. There seems to be a big war waging between old school treatments and newer technology. The insurance companies latch onto any study that says an old school, (cheaper) treatment is just as good. They sent one study today stating that traditional radiation treatment is just as good as Proton radiation, at half the cost. Believe me these people are educated and slick. There's all kinds of research out there that proves about anything you want. I'm going to need help fighting these "Ding Dongs". Insurance companies have teams of lawyers who make a living out of chewing up people in need of better treatment. I'm not very optimistic that I'm going to win on this!

I'd encourage anyone who anticipates getting Prostate cancer to read the book...."You Can Beat Prostate Cancer", by Robert J. Marckini. It's a comprehensive book that looks at all the present day cancer treatments. This would also be a good time to ask your insurance company if they will cover the treatment you want. If not drop them like a hot rock. One in six men will eventually get this cancer.

I'm still thinking of that too. That surgery is quite an ordeal. The wrong sureon can really mess you up, so you need someone very experienced. If the cancer comes back they can then do radiation. It sounds like you can only have radiation one time, then you have to go on female hormones which chemically castrate you. Some people choose to be castrated because it is cheaper. The thought of that scares the hell out of me. I friend of mine's dad had seeds implanted in his postrate. Then the cancer came back. He chose to die rather than take the female hormones. So, I want a radiation treatment that is going to work. It sounds like if it doesn't work the first time, you don't have many choices left. Proton treatment has like a 95% chance of stopping the cancer, if it is in the early stages. I heard that the old school, external radiation, has about a 78% chance of stopping the cancer. When you're fighting for your life, those percentage points matter. It seems like most people who have the external radiation, have the cancer come back. My Dad had his postrate cut out. He later had infection problems. He wore a urine bag for four months. There was a long recovery time. Then the cancer came back. After that he had radiation treatments. He came out of it impotent. He may have had other side affects too. What scares me, about surgery, is that I heard that 60 to 80 percent of men come out of it, impotent. I'm still a wild stallion at heart! Robotic surgery may be somewhat better, but they are still cutting all kinds of nerves and blood vessels down there. If I'm wrong about any of this, please let me know. I need to write an appeal tonight. I'm probably going to have to settle for an old school treatment with lot's of side affects. I appreciate everyone's imput on this.... The good news is that postrate cancer normally spreads slowly. It is a killer though. Once it gets in your limp knodes you are probably going to die. One guy waited three years before he could get better insurance and then receive Proton therapy. I hope to get another PSA test tonight. My PSA about doubled in three months. I haven't had it checked for about six months.

It might be good to get a biopsy done, Jerry. My PSA jumped from five pt. something to 9.1 in just a few months. They bored 12 holes in my postrate. There was cancer in four of them. It's no fun turning into an old fart! I hope there is nothing wrong. It could just be an infection or something else. Check out proton radiation, if you need it. Your insurance might pay for it. Mine is about worthless. I might have to settle for some treatment, that I really really don't want.

I found out recently that my insurance company is denying coverage for the cancer treatment I want. There reasoning is that there are other treatments that are cheaper and supposedly just as goodl. The other treatments often have god awful side affects which I don't want. I've got postrate cancer. I did a lot of research and found proton radiation treatment. It's the best. It has about a 95% kill rate on the cancer I have. It is not an experimental treatment. It has been around for over twenty years. Some insurance companies pay for it, but others don't. It is about twice as expensive. Any suggestions on what to do? I can't wait months and months to hagle with them. I can file an appeal and then wait 60 days for them to get back to me. I talked to two insurance reps. yesterday who said it is almost a sure thing to be denied again. What a nightmare!

That braggart may have been lying but there were some Special Forces MACSOG HALO recon jumps in Nam. http://www.modernforces.com/SOG_halo_1.htm 377 I've done some reading on this. If I read right, those recon missions involved insertion by helicopter prior to 1970. In 1970 the first halo missions were attempted in Vietnam. Correct me if I'm wrong ont this. Maybe I misread this.... I remember hearing some real scary stories of recon missions in Vietnam. One of the guys I trained with, said he didn't take his jungle boots off for weeks at a time, when they were out on a mission. He said one time an entire NVA company walked within feet of where they were hiding in the bushes. Real scary stuff.... I would have given my right arm to go through halo school, but never got it. Halo operations have come a long way since the early 70's (when I went through S. F. training). The pictures posted with that article were interesting. The Uzi was considered top of the line, for a submachine gun, in the early 70's. A lot of guys loved their Car-15's. Weapons have evolved a lot since those days. I imagine their are better weapons now.

Well, our school is on alert again. It's supposed to be the end of the world today. Somebody made a threat to shoot up our school. Extra police are out roaming the halls. We're supposed to keep our doors locked. The FBI is supposed to be here too. To tell you the truth, I don't think this is a credible threat, but who knows, this is a crazy place. When I started teaching here, thirty years ago, this town had the highest murder rate in the U.S. Paul Harvey said he wouldn't even fly over this town in an airplane, because it was that dangerous. It is sometimes called "Stab City". Knives are the weapons of choice, but that may be changing to firearms. If I don't make it you can split up my gear!

Jerry, Living that close, you probably have a lot more insight on this than I do. I'm just glad it wasn't worse....

lawrocket posted earlier that this was a gun free mall Have you seen something that says otherwise? ....I'm just replying to those who are slamming concealed carry laws or places. There are several posts suggesting that civilians with guns, failed that day. I'm just saying more or less what Lawn Rocket said earlier.......This trajedy could have been far worse. The fact that this was a gun free Mall, may have been the reason more lives weren't lost that day. About thirty years ago there was a similiar shooting in a Mall in Salem, Oregon. My brother was in the police academy then. He met another cadet who washed out of the academy. I guess he was not police material. Probably a section 8, kind of guy. A few weeks later that same kid shot up a Mall in Salem. If I remember right he killed a few people and then took his own life. This sort of thing has been going on a long time in all parts of the country.

Most Malls have people spread all over. Sure there were probably many packing a weapon that day, but they were nowhere close. The shooting was over before they could get there. Maybe they were so far away, that they didn't even hear the shots. It sounds like the two that were carrying that day did the right thing. They didn't shoot for fear of hitting somebody else. This perp was heavily armed. The damage could have been far worse. This nut case knew this mall was an open carry place. I think one of the big reasons there weren't more killings that day was because this was a place where concealed carry was allowed. He chose to end his own life, before someone else did that for him. This is far different from a school where guns are not allowed by anyone.....