steve1

There's a bunch of very knowledgeable people on here who know a lot about guns. I have several questions relating to long range shooting. I'd like to pick your brains some. I miss John's advice. Not sure what happened to him. A while back all copper bullets were brought up. Someone mentioned that they won't shoot as flat as lead core bullets. Is that true?

There's so many pistols out there that I was at a loss when it came to picking one out. I know a lot more about rifles than pistols. My brother worked law enforcement for thirty years. He carried a Glock 10 mm. and he loved that gun. I didn't really like the looks or feel of it, at first. The thought of a plastic gun turned me off. I finally bought a Glock 26 in 9 mm, for concealed carry. It was a little fat but I grew to like it. It shoots almost as easy as a bigger pistol. Then I bought a Glock 19 in 9mm. I just love that pistol. It's accurate, reliable, and fits my hands well. I don't have huge hands. The angle of the grip is steeper than most other pistols. If you shoot other pistols this may make a difference in how you shoot. It takes a while to get used to. The people on these forums helped me with my choice of pistol. I'm glad I chose Glock. There is a reason that so many law enforcement agencies, and military choose that brand. I like the larger magazine capacity of 9 mm. A double stack is a little fat, but the new Glocks have a grip that should fit your hand. It's light recoil makes it easy to shoot. With the right bullet it would be a good choice for defensive purposes. I've heard that even the FBI is picking the 9 mm for their duty pistols. I plan to put a custom barrel and new sights on my Glock 19. That may make this already accurate pistol, more so. I've never shot a Springfield Armory pistol. That might be another great choice. That's my two cents worth....

Gee Whiz! This is interesting reading. There were some wild characters jumping in the old days. I don't think I ever met a Texan that I didn't like....

Don't ever lose that DD214. You'll need it later. I even got an extra year of retirement by keeping mine. The VA might need to see it for benefits. I even used mine to get a concealed carry permit. It might be next to impossible to get another if you lose it.

I remember classes where you had to sign your name. They didn't want anyone ghosting out. I'd sometimes sign in as General Westmooreland. You did things like that to keep your sanity. One time we were supposed to go wash the generals car. They sent three of us to get the job done. This car had the officers rank on the side of it. We were all lowly E-4's at the time. We thought we'd have some fun. So while one guy drove, the other two rode in the back. Whenever anyone saw that car they'd snap to attention and salute us. With a stuck up look on our face we'd salute back. We drove all over doing that. It was the most fun that I'd had all year......

I spent about five months at Ft. Polk going through basic and infantry training. There's a reason they call it the ass-hole of the United States. That was back in 1969 and 1970. Infantry training was preparation for Nam. They called it Tiger Land. No fun at all! You'd think that Louisiana would be a warm place. It rained most of the winter. I'm from Montana and thought I was used to cold, but believe me it got cold down there. Those unheated WWII barracks were no fun either. Most all of our drill sargents and many trainees were black. There were race riots going on during that time. It wasn't much fun to be in training then. And then you think you are out.....but no. You are still on call. There were Vietnam Vets who were told they had to go to National Guard drills and summer camps for a year after. Back then you were on call up until you were about 50 years old. In a National emergency they could call you back up.

When I first started teaching I worked in a town that had the highest per capita murder rate in the United States. It received the name "Stab City". Paul Harvey said that he wouldn't even fly over that place in an airplane, because it was that dangerous. I don't think that there was even one homicide due to shooting. The weapon of choice was a knife. The name of the town was Poplar, Montana. This was about thirty years ago. We need to ban those damn knives!

If he weighed more than about 140 pounds he was tough as they come. Being a light weight did make a difference on landing, (particularly a round canopy). One size of canopy and container fit all. The worst part was that you couldn't control where you landed very well when the wind picked up or when you had a bad spot. Landing next to buildings, trees, water, and power lines was nothing but dangerous, back then. Hod may have weighed 160 in the early 70's. I don't think he was ever a light weight. Bill Vonn said that Hod had the biggest wrists that he ever grabbed onto. That was when they built the 400 way in Thailand.

Sorry to hear that. Many of us have been wondering about him.....

Hod Sanders had almost a 1,000 jumps on a 7-TU. When it had some holes or burns on it, Hod would put some more duck tape on it. He said he didn't trust the new gear. When he was jumping with Mirror Image B.J. told Hod that he had to get a hotter canopy. It was taking too long waiting for him, to hike back in, when the wind came up. Hod was about as tough as they come. I couldn't imagine making that many jumps on a 7-TU.

During the 70's, probably the oldest skydiver that I ever knew was about 50. He wanted to learn to jump. He had a younger wife and about five little kids. Maybe he thought he was younger than he really was. So, on his first jump he shattered his femur. I can't recall how many breaks he had in it, but there were several. I later worked construction with him, and he told me how hard it was not being able to work for all those months. I think part of the problem was that our club didn't take much time teaching PLF's. That was something you really needed to learn, back then. Anyone over forty seemed like an old guy back then. I really don't recall many jumpers who were even that old.... Dave Tousey and Bob Smith were only about 35 back in the 70's. They were about the two oldest jumpers that I knew back then. But, come to think of it, Stan Sikes may have been 45......He was one tough old bird....

French jump boots were worth every penny back in the early 70's. I've sprained my ankles several times and bruised my heels a couple other times. Each time I wasn't wearing my Frenchies. My first jump was out of a C-141 in the Army. We'd practiced PLF's until we were sick of doing them. The jump was perfect until I hit the ground. I forgot to keep my knees together and sprained the hell out of one ankle. My army boots were better than tennis shoes, but not as good as Frenchies. I hadn't been sport jumping long before I bought a pair of French jump boots. Everyone had them in 1971, and for good reason. They absorbed a ton of shock. Those air cushions in the sole were great. The extra ankle support helped too. About 74 or so, most of the really cool jumpers were going to tennis shoes. I figured I wanted to be cool too, so I got my Adida's out. The problem was we were still jumping para-commanders. There were times when you needed more protection for your feet. Shortly there-after I bruised both heels. I was waslking around like a ballerina for a week or so after that. Then I had a malfunction and landed in rock pile under a wildly oscilating 24 ft. reserve. Yep, my tennis shoes were about worthless. Both ankles were ex-rayed, but they were only sprained. I was on crutches for a couple weeks after. Then there was that time I made a low turn under a square. Again I had both ankles ex-rayed. My PLF probably saved me from worse injuries. I needed help to walk away from that one though. I ended up with a big plastic boot on one foot, and a couple weeks worth of pain pills. If only I had worn my Frenchies that day. The last P.C. jump that I made was at a jump meet. I was determined to stand it up. I hadn't jumped a P.C. in about 25 years. I slammed into the ground hard. I should have went down, but hell, a bunch of people were watching. This was right next to the tents. Without Frenchies I would have been hurt again. As it was I ended up a hero and everyone clapped. Not bad for an old fat guy!

I recall my first day of jump school. They sat us all down in some grandstands. Benning was like paradise compared to Ft. Polk...... A single Golden Knight exited a Cessna far overhead. He was jumping with smoke. Then his P.C. blossomed overhead. After making a perfect standup in front of us, he strode off. Kind of like the hero walking off into the sunset.... Damn, that was cool! I figured I've got to try that someday! I still recall reading article after article about Gene Thacker in parachutist. I wish I could have met him.

That's right....I forgot about paps. I always wanted one of those shiny things.

This happened when the StratoStar became the most popular canopy on the market. JerryBaumchen I quit jumping in about 75, for 20 years or so. I'm not sure what happened during that time period. It seems like it was a time of big change in terms of gear and what people were doing in the air. Prior to 75 the hot canopy was a para-commander. My hero's "then" were the Golden Knights. They seemed to mostly be jumping P.C.'s packed in a Super Pro Container. Even Jock LaStrap jumped a rig like that, so that's what I bought. Fred Sands had the only Red Devil P.C. in Montana. He was one of my heroes too, so I bought one of them. I think..... the only other hot canopies "then" were the Thunderbow, and Para-plane. I'll never forget watching Randy Mosley land that Para-plane....I was in awe! This was just the beginning of things to come......

Well...something that is making *me* feel older is understanding this thread. To me, a "round" is a 28 ft diameter canopy modified with a T, LL or the really hot accuracy canopy called a 7 TU. I have 2-300 jumps on 7 TU rigs but I never attempted CRW with one. Set me straight, what is a round? Or so I remember.... ........................................................................ I quit jumping for about twenty years. When I came back to jumping others were calling P.C.'s a round canopy. They were considered to be in the same class as 28ft. or T-10 canopies. I felt like saying something. After all a para-commander was about the best high performance canopy out there, in the early 70's. It was a whole lot better than a 7-TU. Nearly everyone in our club, during the early 70's, called round canopies "rags". And that didn't include P.C.'s. I'm not sure when a P.C. became just another round canopy.

I thought I invented doing a hook turn into the wind with a P.C. I know now that lot's of people did the same thing. It sometimes saved your bacon, if done right. Jumping in the wind wasn't always so bad. If you had a bad spot in combination with the wind, it could be deadly. I remember one Utah jumper who was drug to death, when the winds came up all of a sudden. He may have been knocked out on landing. It wasn't always easy to open a capewell, particularly if you are already asleep. I recall one wind jump at Kalispell, that still scares me to this day. I only had about 200 jumps at the time. Dave Tousey was with us. He had older than us, and since he had lot more jumps, we trusted his judgment. After take off we started noticing dust everywhere on the ground. There was a lot of turbulance in the air. Roofs and tin was actually blowing off buildings. All of us had P.C.'s. I don't think I even thought about what kind of reserve I had. They were all round in those days. Mine was a 24 ft. The pilot said he didn't want to land with us on board. I don't know if it was a cross wind landing or what. With scared faces, we turned to Dave. With a shakey voice, I said, "What are we gonna do now, Dave?" "Let's wait and see what the wind does," he replied. A half hour later, the pilot said we were getting low on fuel. Dave looked out, and said the waves, on the lake didn't look quite as high as they did earlier. The decision was made to jump. Dave made a really long spot. There were houses and power lines, everywhere surrounding the D.Z...... Luckily we all hit an open area. I remember a hook turn worked well that day.....It sure beat doing a feet, butt, head landing. I'd made lot's of those landings earlier. A motorcycle helmet kept me conscious each time. It wasn't easy being a jumper, back in the day!......

I remember when having 400 jumps was a lot of jumps. You might have had four or five near death experiences, with that many. I was on a relative work team with B.J. Worth when I had 85 jumps (back in about 72). I might add that we beat the Air Force Academy in competition, at Boise, that year. It wasn't that we were that good, but rather nobody was that good. Nobody had the thousands of jumps, you see today. It was just too hard to survive that many jumps on gear that let you down like a ton of bricks, and left you hurting. Jumping in the wind was down right scary. Sometimes a newbie wasn't that much greener than those who were supposed to know what they were doing. One characteristic of jumpers then, was that they were young and tough. Jumping was just too brutal for an old fart to last long. Yep, things were different then.....I'm not sure why I even miss those days so much. We sure had fun though!

But.....I'll bet you aren't having any more fun than we did! Well....maybe it just seemed like more fun....looking back forty years. After all, those were the good old days! I guess I don't miss hard landings, multiple malfunctions, rear PLF's on wind days, dangerous aircraft, few rules, friends who bounced....maybe I need to rethink things. It was definitely more dangerous to jump back then. But at the risk of being a negative old fart......Maybe everything isn't better today. I really think there were fewer jumpers who thought they were too good to jump with a newbie, back then. More experienced jumpers often jumped with the less experienced jumpers to help train them. They didn't consider it a wasted jump. They didn't expect to get paid for it. I think things have become a lot more clickish today, and that may be one thing that is a detriment to modern day skydiving. I know of many who have quit the sport because of this factor alone..... Back in the day, we all jumped together, and we partied together. Being a Newbie was nothing to be embarrassed by. You didn't have to be a sky-god to hang out with more experienced jumpers. There just seemed to be a different attitude then...... Am I the only one who feels that?

When I started in "71", you could buy a good condition B-12 main container with a 7-TU for around a $120. A belly mount reserve (with a 24 ft. canopy inside) might be $50 to $75. A first jump course was $50. That included your first static line jump. Most people had a Bell motorcycle helmet someplace or a good pair of leather boots. I was a starving college kid back then, but I could still afford to jump......I know inflation makes a big difference, but I really feel the cost of skydiving is much more today.

I don't know much about Tikka rifles. I've been a fan of Remington 700's for the past fifty years. Most are very accurate out of the box. If you fine tune one, and find the right ammo, usually it will shoot tiny groups. It seems like most guys, looking for an accurate reliable rifle, that doesn't break your bank account buy a Savage. Savage rifles are usually quite accurate out of the box. I have a Remington 700 in 22/250, 270, 30/06 and 300 Win. Magnum. All of them have a 3X9 Leupold scope. All are glass bedded, floated barrels, and light triggers. All will usually group under and inch with the right reload. I shot a 1/4 inch four shot group recently with my 270. That was a four shot group. I don't think you can go wrong putting your money into a Remington 700.....

Thanks Pat! In the early 70's we had about the same gear. I remember a buddy who fell like a rock. I was determined to give him his first hook-up. I slammed into him so hard that I was lucky I didn't get nocked out, but we held that hookup. An eagle couldn't have done it any better. I bled all over B.J. Worth's reserve on the ride down. I don't think he was too tickled with me....

Sure. I have a civil defence plan (what it's called in NZ) and supplies. Do I spend a LOT of time worrying about it? No. Its a cost vs benefit equation, same as anything else in life. You prioritise the important and more likely things and focus on them first. For example, I am more concerned about high blood pressure (given my family background) than I am about being cut off from civilisation for an extended period of time - so a lot more thought, time and expense goes into my health and wellbeing than digging bunkers and buying generators. My assessment of the risk of civil breakdown is that the chances are so low that the level of preparedness I have is enough. There is always the chance that I am wrong - but that is the case regardless of how prepared you are. You cannot cover every eventuality, so focus on those that you feel are more likely. ............................................................... That makes sense.... What I invision for the future probably won't happen any time soon. No, I don't have a big bunker in the back yard, but like many Americans I don't totally trust the establishment to keep me safe if things fail. Things could change drastically whether it's a natural disaster or worse. It could happen sooner than you think. I knew one family who refused to leave their home during Katrina. The only reason they weren't robbed or vandalized was because they were home and armed. My brother went through the L.A. riots. You could call the police, but noone would come. He was never a gun person, but first chance he got, he bought one. Many people are thinking about what could happen and they are preparing accordingly. I think that is one reason behind the ammuntion shortage, and why the sale of guns have sky-rocketed recently.....This is more than just panic buying. Many are just planning ahead.

Surviving a natural disaster or riot might be one thing to worry about and prepare for. I often worry about something bigger. What if our economy collapses. If there was no food to buy, no electricity, no water, no gas, no police, transportation, or communication, etc. It seems like it would really be dog eat dog in the cities. Criminals might rule just like they have in other riots. Heading to the boonies might be a good idea, at least for a while. If you had a good stockpile of food, water, ammo, weapons, etc. you'd have to defend it. It might be hard to take it all with you, (if you were on the move). Surviving alone would be improbable. You'd need other capable people to help you. For some just dieing might be an option. Those who survived would need a plan, preparedness, and a lot of luck..... Does anyone else ever worry about this? A friend of mine has a farm out in the boon docks. His plan is gathering together friends to help him raise food and defend what they have. Maybe that idea isn't so crazy after all...... Is it crazy to take a life jacket with you when you go out on the water, or wear a reserve parachute when you jump? I think we all prepare for the future the best we can.....Some don't want to think about it. In nature when animals die of starvation it's the young and old who die first. Since I'm an old fart I might be one of the first to go. This may never happen in my lifetime, but who's to say it can't happen. Someday I know it will.....

Montana has had several Drop Zones come and go over the years. There was once two different drop zones at the Laurel Airport. They were both small but both were a ton of fun. About eight years back they were forced out by rising insurance fees. Bozeman had a jump club during the 70's. I'm not sure what happened to that club. There was a small amount of jumping at one time in Helena. It was never a big club. I heard they may have even jumped at Glasgow, Mt. at one time. That may have been in the 60's. The Silvertip Skydivers are supposed to be the oldest continually run "Collegiant" club in the U.S. The only thing is that I don't think they have a single college jumper in it now. They started in Missoula, then moved to Stevensville. They are now in Hamilton. They just had a boogie about a week ago......