Darius11

You hit the nail on the head. They are using there tribalism to influence,watch each others back, cover up crimes and get away with it. Hmmm where have i seen that before. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

A few things bother me about this issue. One is your point of view and reaction (not just you but the general reaction), I know if I just posted Islamic police are walking the streets of New York and harassing people, holding them, using force, hiding pedophiles, and hiding crimes of fellow Muslims you would have a much different reaction Also it’s not as benign as you assume it to be, as mentioned in the above examples. Also they roam around the city in vans! if you are going to other neighborhoods your no longer your neighbor hood watch, your acting police. One, even in your religious group you do not have the authority to enforce anything on the public who is not of your group or belief, Two you are not a nabghorhood watch if your travelling like a police force from naghborhood to naghborhood. Also once again my biggest issue is your reaction and reactions like it, and that any religious group is trying to enforce anything on the public. Why do you feel you need to express an overly understanding and forgiving view when you know you would not have the same reaction if it was Muslims? Or are you claiming your ok with if they were Muslims doing the same thing? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

There are plenty of genital mutilations in the religion. There is also many accounts of pedophile, and espionage. There are actually similar if not exact cases like the ones you mention in all religions, Thank god they are a small group in all of them. Edit to add: Forgot to answer your questions: would this happen in Dallas? No, and it shouldn't happen anywhere on US soil. My point is no religious police should have any authority here. That's why we have a Constitution. Also just annoyed that we set different standards based on Public prescription which is often not based on facts. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I was only commenting on the motivation behind continuing the "they will take your guns fear." As to the other stuff you mentioned, i have heard all sort of things, from Russian solders on US soil brought just to kill Americans, because they thought US solders would not fire on fellow citizens, TO FEMA death camps, NWO etc etc I don't know who to believe. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Yea i am in NY too so i only get info from local sources or friends who have eye witnessed some douchbaggery. This would be on every TV if it was Muslim or Christin for sure. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I am curios as to how any mention of Shari law gets a few posts here even when they are from the most nefarious sources, Yet the actual practice of religious law being enforced by a religious Militia on US citizens in the US is never brought up? Its happening right here in NY daily. Just think what would the media coverage be and how many threads would be on here if a single mosque sent two guys out to act like religious police? Just blown away but how little press this shit is getting. Should this be allowed? Why is there so little coverage? What would you do if you are swamped by van filled with Shomrim? This guy shot them and rightfully got away with it. At least the law works. http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/11/man-who-shot-4-shomrim-members-acquitted-on-all-but-one-charge-456.html I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Shari law Shari law blah blah blah, How would it work? How would you enforce Shari law on US citizens? Seriously when you actually try to think about case by case bases it becomes obvious at how ridiculous even the mention of it is. I eat bacon the local Muslims say oh I deserve to be punished, they show up at my house to pick me up for my punishment, I tell them to fuck off and call the police? What do you think will happen? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Any idea why? You know that the prison guards didn't make you become Muslim, so there has to be some sort of draw right? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

The Gitmo guys most have not been charged and we already know we have had innocent men arrested, so WE KNOW nothing of the collective term “The Gitmo Guys” I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I find it hilarious that when Obama was elected there was a huge fear in the gun owners community so they went out and purchased a lot of stuff ammo guns, To the point that even during the economy claps the gun stores were doing great better then ever. Does it ever occur to anyone that the people who love shit like “they are going to take your guns away” are the gun manufacturers and retailers? Do you ever wonder why this stuff is on crazy ass right wing websites? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Utopia - a place of ideal perfection especially in laws, government, and social conditions. If there is someone who doesn't want a "utopia" then they are fools. Because, why would you want anything less? Why would you not want to try and make the world good for everyone? That is the idea behind the quote. If someone prefers seeing war, famine, bigotry, etc etc, rather than trying to make the world better, then they are fools, and possibly mentally ill IMO. At the root you are right we all should aim for that, we should view this planet as OUR home and how can we make it best for all of us. It’s a great idea but we still have national pride as one of the biggest motivators for most countries, we are so far away from evolved thought that I don’t think a utopia is possible not yet. Is it something to shoot for HELL YES. But right now the things we do to this planet is the definition of insanity for any species. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

That’s fine I didn’t really see you back up anything, you express what you believe to be true. I explained to you that motive always makes a difference in the mind of the person who commits the action. The only time it does not is if there is no conscience, or the person is too ignorant to understand the situation. This is not hard as a matter of fact it is extremely simple humane psychology. You’re trying to fight that by stating it does not. You’re simply wrong. Motive reasons as to why an action happens are some of the biggest indicators of how we feel about a situation. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

So what’s your point that the reasoning behind the war has nothing to do with the amount of solders who suffer from PTSD? I think your missing the point: We know war sucks (that should be common knowledge) and yes I am speaking from some experience. I haven’t talked to every veteran on the planet but have known a few who fought a just war. Yes they had horrible images in their head, yes it horrific to see your buddy die, but all of that is amplified when the reasoning behind it is questionable or simply bull shit. When you die protecting your home people don’t think oh that’s awesome but it is easily understood by most. This should be simple for anyone to understand. Do you need a study to tell you if you hit your dick with a hammer it hurts before you understand it? What you are saying is there is no difference it’s just the horrors of war that cause PTSD. The motivation, the reasoning you ended up in that war in that place makes ZERO difference. So basically your statement means that either all solders are too fucking stupid to know the difference between a just war and a questionable one, or that they lack any conscience to care? As to this bull shit WTF are you even talking about? if your fighting an evil your fighting an evil. Its not hard to understand. Wonder why we have so many cases of PTSD and suicides? in the last two wars because when you ask hey why did we go? whats the point? no one fucking knows? There have been a few months where we have had more solders die from suicides then in combat your asking for proof? Dude put two and two together. PTSD is not shell shock. i don't care what your Google search told you. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

You do know that it was not just Germany who was the enemy in WWII right??? You should read before you play internet historian!! Ahh remember Pearl Harbor? So we were attacked and it was obvious that the enemy wanted to take over the whole world. If you were not of the superior race you were going to be killed. I think it would be a lot less stressful to fight an enemy you know is wrong and is coming for you then when there is obvious questions of who might be in the right or wrong. I am sure there are people who will get PTSD if they get bullied in school , or if someone breaks in to their home. However if you look at the mass numbers you will realize that when the wars are unjust or at minimum questionable you tend to get a lot more people with physiological issues. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

man where do i get my Obama free stuff??? I mean were both Muslim why can't he hook a brothe up?? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I think there is a lot more to PTSD than a feeling of guilt. I think that may me a small part of it, but the experience of living through something truly horrifying is the main component. It sounds to me as if Copeland is also suggesting that if the war is "Just" than any conduct during the war is justified and not feel any guilt. although it's difficult to imagine what would constitute a war-crime in the OT. I think Copeland is trying to again dismiss a complex medical/science issue with a Biblical answer. He also the nut who dismissed vaccines for true believers. Those who are unlucky enough to subscribe to his BS, will now blame themselves instead of seeking medical help. I agree with part of what is said, that if the war is just you have a lot less cases of PTSD. I think the horrors of war are just that horrific to deal with for anyone; however when you add a questionable reasoning and methods then your mind and conscience will not let you rest. Off course this only applies to people who have a good mental health to begin with. WWI, WWII you had no choice you HAVE to fight, when someone comes in to your home to hurt your family you have to fight. So times are tough but you do not have the running train of thoughts in your head that you do when your action is questionable. I think the only other time I can think of just wars is when a country has been invaded and the people of that country fight to kick out the invaders. During the Iran and Iraq war things were horrifying yes, but there was not one voice who had any question about what needed to be done. There was no alternative in the minds of the public other than fight, fight till we win or die. When you can’t even understand why the fuck you traveled 14000 miles to go to some one else’s back yard to start shit I bet you have a lot of PTSD as you should if you have a conscience I think the reasons should be obvious to most. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Here is where he fucked up Make sure the ass hole breaking the law doesn't get a chance to give his side of the story. One to the chest one to the head. You came in to a store, you had a gun, and you put the gun to a dudes head, FUCK YOU! You see this all the time "my baby was such a good boy!!" Mean while he raped 10 women. So many parents suck dick at their job but that doesn’t stop them from spitting out more kids. If the relative wanted him unshot maybe he/she should have loaned the fucker some money. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

That's fact there was no Isreail before 1948 you can twist it all you want. No one said there were no Jews, there are Jews in New York doesn't make new York a Jewish state now does it? I live on Long Island i don;t claim long island to be a part of Iran. So as i said before there was NO ISRAEL before 1948. Are you denying that there are many Jews who believe the land their own land was promised to them by god, are you denying the religious motivation behind a Jewish State? Iran has no Weapons so it has not violated it. If you can't see how insane it sounds for you to be proud that Israel has signed no contract yet feels the right to tell others to do so, i have nothing for you man. Thats just crazy talk First don't say as always blah blah blah you have been better then that don't become one of these guys who writes of any criticisms and pretends i said shit that i didn't. That's just weak. To the point about not allowing another country to get technology or weapons i find that statement filled with arrogance. First who are you as a country to think you have the right to military intervene in the future of another country? Simply because you think so and you assumed a leads to b and c in your highly paranoid mind. (all the yours i mean Israel not you personally) What gives you the right? Also how fucking retarded do you have to be to not think you are rightfully hated if you did so? Israel is setting standards that it self will not meet yet it tries to enforce on others. Why is so hard for you guys to understand that's not the way a person or a country should act. Its really as simple as that. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Iran It is a theocracy, and I agree religion does not belong in the government. ANY RELIGION. I do not believe in royalty, a king or a queen I find any of those ideas so goddamn stupid it hurts my head. That’s my personal view, however I am not arrogant enough to think that’s the only view that should be allowed and all others are evil. I personally think we the US has the best idea, a constitutional government a democratic republic. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Tell me about it you live in a world where the Israelis just moved in and magically the villagers fled, there was no Mossad killing villagers so they could scare people of their land, none of that shit. It was just the Brits?? You keep telling your self what my stance is because you can't fight a logical fight, The truth does not support what you present as facts. So its much easier for you to spew garbage that makes me or anyone you disagree with seem crazy and full of hate because that is dismissive. This is the usall tactic that is often used which i had already expected and mention before. You rightfully criticize Israeli and the argument you eventually get is that you must be antisemitic when they can not hold a standard of facts. . Now if you can show where i said "they don't have the right to exist" then come at me with a quote. If not stop making shit up so you can paint it black and white in your head. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

Yes remember Edward snowden, Manning?? Torture plans that the CIA uses????Whats your point That WE have the right to run another countries government?? How about Iran come and tell the US how to run their shit. That's the issue with most of you you can set standards for others that none of you would be willing to tolerate for your self. Unfortunately you might be right i do find myself alone/ fighting with the Iranians about the stupid illogical shit they say as well. Fuckem all. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

This has not been proven. I'm not saying that they don't, because they most likely do, but there is no confirmation that this is the case. If you can show me some information proving otherwise, I would be very interested to see it. Signing a treaty would be saying that they have nuclear weapons when they will neither confirm nor deny it. If it comes to it, I hope you are this strongly opinionated about Iran signing a nuclear treaty. I don't have all the information about this so I won't make an uninformed comment. Most of Israel's engagements have been in response to being attacked. They have made pre-emptive attacks before, but its not normally the case. This is opening up a different discussion that would not be relevant to the topic of this thread, so I will leave it for another time. I am an educated American Jew who supports Israel. I don't support everything that they do, but I feel very strongly about their right to defend their existance. Nucks? Are you trying to say that the Israelis have Canadians without signing a treaty? If you can’t see how hard you are trying to make the facts fit your view!? then I can’t help you. No one can as you have already chosen you camaraderie over your sense of logic , and truth. You know they have them NUCLEAR WEAPONS (so you don’t mistake it for Canadians) but want to pretend they don’t, I can’t argue in make belief. You know what I am talking about, but you have to pick a part a misspelled word. That’s the issue with the world the fact that you know but you choose to bull shit your self and spread ignorance instead of having the balls to stand alone and not belong to a group. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

I think your desperately trying to play dumb if you do not see the difference. You have one country Iran, who has had a democratic government removed by the US in 53, has had to fight an unjust war which it did not start with Iraq our alli at the time, Which we the US supported even when chemical weapons were used, A country that's is surrounded by the country that called it an axis of evil. On the other hand you have country that did not exists before 1948, the reason it exists is because they say god said so ( your a lawyer right if you cant see the difference in logic i wouldn't pay you .02 to hire you), Now this country has signed no nuclear treaty, has Nuclear capability, Always threatens there neighbors with possible action, and at the same time says no one else should have them. This is not rocket science, There is a guy with a gun who stole land and resides in it illegally and then also says no one should have guns because they steal land. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

One Isreal poses nuclear weapons Two, they have not signed a nuclear treaty Tree, They have violated more UN resolutions then Iraq Four, they are the country that has had preemptive attacks as a part of their standard MO Five, They have an apartheid I can keep going, and going. The only people who think Israelis are innocent are uneducated Americans and Jews whos sense of morality is much smaller then the sense of camaraderie they feel to their tribe. Your talking about over 60 years of abuse, that the world knows but you cant mention in the US because it is Antisemitism even if it is factual. However the only two you need to know for this argument is that they have Nucks and have signed no treaty. So how can they even say anything???? Why should anyone listen? I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

That statement is full of shit. What i said is they have the right to have nuclear weapons. I think anyone who is not confused by nationalism, their religions affiliations, can logically see how ridiculous it is for someone who has thousands of something to tell others there not allowed. Oh and anytime we get mad we talk about using this thing that we have to wipe you and your people off the map. Hypocrisy is so obvious. God that's a dim statement, for sovereignty!! Do you know how much oil the US has? How much gas? Why do we even try to learn any thing or even expand our technology? Because it will not last long and it will be finished, plus self reliance is something Iran has always wanted and the west hates. The west wants "Arab like nations" who gives up oil and you give them weapons, and technologies that the west can decide to cut off at any time. After the Iran and Iraq war Iran learned it needs to be self reliant or as self reliant as it can be. I think even you can appreciate why a country would want to explore many options and soldifie the future of their people. We would do the same. I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain