rigging65

Says who?? It's only the proper, staged deployment if you define "proper" as based on a throw-out system. Answer me this: How do you know FOR SURE that you're container is open after you pitch with a throw out? I'm talking about during that delay time before you get stood up. How long are you willing to wait to find out? With my pull-out, I KNOW when the container is open...and I know if it's locked up. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

The way I would "justify myself in court" is the same way I justify every action I perform as a rigger. It's my job to make those decisions...that's why they gave me (and every other rigger) a ticket. If you do some research, you'll find that it is a rigger's responsibility to determine compatibility between components in a certified system. Some further research will yield that pack volumes are not limiting factors when combining components. Any mfg. will tell you that sizing is not exact, therefore, no hard limits exist when combining components and it is the rigger's responsibility to determine compatibility. Pack volumes change based on lots of different environmental variables...no mfg. could ever give you definite numbers, because they change. It's the field rigger who makes the decision on compatibility. Only through experience can a rigger know if a canopy will fit in a given rig. Thats what they're paid for... Riggers can do much more than most people think they can. As issued by the FAA, the ticket makes you the last word in functional responsibility. Some mfgs. don't like for people to know about it, but if you read up on it, you'll find the only thing grander than the scope of practice for an FAA rigger is their tendency to collect rigging tools... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

It's never too early to get into rigging, if you're interested. I started rigging when I had about 30 jumps. It's amazing how much it helps your skydiving as well! It's all about learning and being safe. More information is always good. And don't forget, just because you get a rigger's ticket doesn't mean you have to be packing for everyone out there. Start out slow, packing for some friends and yourself, learning and perfecting your skills. Then go a bit bigger and learn some more. It's a gradual process, it takes time, but it's worth it! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I certainly don't want to raise any hackles with this comment...but did you actually try to pack the container with the Tempo 170 in it? I haven't packed more than a few hundred V3s, so I don't claim to know their sizing like the back of my hand, but I do know this: 1. ParaGear canopy sizing is hit-and-miss at best 2. PD canopies pack much, much bigger and Tempos pack much, much smaller than they "should" based off their published square footage. 3. Container mfgs. list their pack volumes lower than they actually are so they don't get people calling and complaining about how hard it is to pack such-and-such rig with such-and-such canopy, even though the book says it will fit. I've put plenty of Tempo 170s into containers that previously had PD 126Rs in them, and never had a problem. I'm not sure if I've ever done it on a V3 though. I'm only asking because sometimes it's a good exercise to pack stuff that is outside-the-box on paper, just to see what it does. Obviously you don't want to go so far as to force the container and cause it harm, but maybe at least try it and see? Now, you're the rigger, and I applaud you for standing up and telling the customer you thought the set-up was "no bueno". That's what you should do as a rigger...take control and make the choices as you see fit. But, IMO, you should never pass up the opportunity to try and pack something just because the book says the numbers don't jive. Books and Numbers (especially pack volumes) aren't the end-all-be-all of rigging, you've got to try stuff for yourself as well. Altitude, humidity, temperature, age, line type, etc. can greatly change the numbers... Just some thoughts. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

A pocket slider is a small ram-air pocket that is sewn to the leading edge of your slider. As the slider comes down the lines, the pocket inflates, slowing the slider down and softening your opening. I prefer pocket-sliders over simply getting a "bigger" slider...unless you know of a bunch of people who have made the exact same change (ie- putting a 170 slider on a 150) without any complication, I'd be leary of doing it. In reference to the original post, the dimensions of the slider are very important. If it's too wide, it allows too much of the bottom skin of the canopy to get air on it early and can actually make your openings harder as a result. Some of the original FX and VX canopies had this problem. We actually ended up putting smaller sliders on them and they worked much, much better. I'm not suggesting you get a smaller slider, just be aware that a bigger one might not solve the problem...a pocket slider most certainly will because you're adding drag without allow the lines to spread out any more. Since Sabre canopies have been beating people up for many years, and since PD has done quite a bit of research (that I'm aware of) into them, they may very well have a slider of different dimension that will work for you. A pocket slider will, most likely be cheaper and faster to get though. Any middle sized (or bigger) loft should be able to make and install it for you. Good luck! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Jumping your reserve is a great idea. It lets you get a feel for the canopy (or at least the same type and size) in a controlled scenario... before you might need it in an uncontrolled one! PD's program is great that way, but most any mfg. will get you a canopy to try out if you just ask! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Actually, this works really well. And you pretty much have to be an idiot to miss it when you're packing your pilot chute. Plus, in the lame-ass event you did miss it, the p/c would still function as a normal, non-kill line p/c....uless you made the loop so big that it effectively shorted your bridle by more than, say, 2 feet. Then you might have problems getting the p/c far enough out of your burble to get good inflation. Less of an issue with a pull-out, as you need less drag (no pin to pop), but it still could potentially be a problem. But like I said, you'd have to REALLY shorten that bridle up a lot, then miss it during packing, to run into an issue here. If you have problems with kill-line slippage, this is a good method to reduce it. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Actually, since most dropzones aren't located in the hustle and bustle of a city (read: They're in the middle of no-where), you're much more likely to see private ambulance companies responding to pick up our buddies than a city box. Generally speaking, you'll get either a Volunteer Fire Dept. or a city FD rig (if you're not that far into the sticks...) as your First Responders. After that, you'll get a posted private ambulance sometime in the next 10-30 minutes. Having gone through this whole thing once or twice (and being on the receiving end once), the best advise I can give is to get your DZO or S&TA to get in contact with whichever First Responder units will be responding to your DZ and give them the low-down of what they'll most likely be coming across (I mean the actual Station, talk with an officer on each shift). Do all this BEFORE you actually have an incident. Fire guys love knowing what they're getting into before they role, so they'll be more than happy to speak with you. Just call them, or stop buy during business hours..they won't bite, unless you ask them to. If you get on good terms with them, you might actually be able to get info from them about when to request helicopter support...then you can pass that info along to 911 when you call it. At our DZ, the fire station is literally right across the runway from the DZ...and we have people affiliated with both in contact on a regular basis...so when we have to call 911, the First Responders get the info they need over the dispatch to let them know if this is a helicopter worthy event or not. We're in a very fortunate situation having the FD so close...not everyone is, which makes good pre-planned communications so important. For many skydiving incidents, a helo is put in the air during the initial dispatch, just as a precaution....those guys love to fly, and you can always turn them off. Keep in mind, it takes about 5 minutes from the time they are dispatched until they can actually lift off the pad. You can buy those 5 minutes back by having them called them early on in an incident! We've gone so far as to have the Volunteer Dept. near our DZ come out and hold a drill each spring (right about the same time as Safety Day, usually) so that they are all re-familiarized with our landing zones, how to get to them, where the truck access points are, etc. We generally send a DZ representative to that drill to tell the Fire guys what types of injuries they can expect and where. Then the Fire guys can translate the DZ-ese into EMS-ese and then we're all speaking the same language (i.e- was the "landing injury" a "traumatic fall" or a "trip and fall"?) Volunteer Depts. are, for the most part, hard working Depts. that are on-top-of-it, but remember this: They can have high turn over rates, and low(er) experience limits. Having them ALL refresh each year can only be a good thing for your DZ. So be pro-active and make it happen! Good proper planning will greatly reduce the scene time, and that's what it's all about with Trauma. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Let me try to explain... Slightly too long (ie - the end of the finger trap is just below the lip of the middle grommet but is too long going towards the pin - but like only an half inch) isn't such a big deal, but more than that and the loop might bottom out before you've actually got the top where you want it. Not good... Now, if the finger trap is too long (extended out over the edge of the grommet), as you're tightening the loop down you're either pulling "against" the loop and pulling the fibers of the loop apart (causing distortion, and weakening the loop itself), or you're pulling "with" the loop and causing a smooth channel to be formed around the inner piece of the loop (the part you're pulling on) as it passes over the grommet, which can result in slippage of the loop later on...which can, obviously, be only sorta-bad or it can be really-bad. I hope I've made this clear, it's much easier to show this stuff in person. Suffice it to say, the measurements are important! If you're going to build aftermarket loops, you really need to know what you're doing, which materials to use, and how to properly route the finished loop when you're done! I really can't stress this enough...DON'T PLAY WITH MAKING THESE TYPE OF LOOPS UNLESS YOU'RE SURE YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT PROPERLY, please.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Wow, funny that... You'd think some company would come up with something better than that, wouldn't you... Now if the FAA would only cooperate... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

No need to speculate about distances, here are the correct lengths. Please note, while there are tolerances (.25" or less) for this construction, the measurements are not "flexible". Because of the way the loop functions, it is essential that the measurements be as near perfect as possible. Failure to comply with the instructions on the page below can lead to a very very bad day. http://www.tridenthc.com/closingloop.htm Like the page says, if you have questions, ask...don't guess! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Generally that sort of problem is associated with plastic inserts more so that metal ones; a-la Javelin style. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Ain't that the truth.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

And what happens in this scenario if one riser were to release prematurely? If you're talking about an inch or so, it's probably not going to matter too much... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Just a(nother) point of clarification... The Reflex wasn't originally made with risers in that configuration. The Reflex RSL connection point hangs off the side of the confluence wrap. I've never liked where that Jav ring was hung...more than once I've caught rigs with the loop rigged through that ring (incorrectly so). Be careful folks...know your gear! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

FWIW - the cutaway handle IS NOT part of the reserve system and DOES NOT fall under TSO. As far as the FAA is concerned, you don't need to cutaway to put out your reserve. With all that said, I'd leave the cables as they are. It's not going to make a damn bit of difference during a cutaway, and if you every put the RSL on (another subject entirely) you won't need to trim up down the cable... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I do just that.Works great. I've used a Factory Diver w/ glasses underneath for about 3 years now. No worries... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

So. I went through and read this entire thread...slowly and carefully, to make sure I got all of it before I commented. I have a question: What does WeakMindedFool do for a living? Anyone? Where does he live? What kind of car does he drive? What kind of a person is he? If you don't know, how can you attempt to determine if he can or cannot handle the canopy he's flying currently? The point is, if you don't know a person, you can do nothing but "pigeon hole" them into some "category". We often make the blanket statement that "Young jumpers shouldn't be on XXX or XXX loaded at XXX". This might make sense for an arbitrary person that you've never met before and have no other information on, but it's been stated that the jumper we're talking about is progressing along a path based on the input from not one, but several different instructors that have complete first hand knowledge of his skills, personality type and background...something, it would appear, no one that has posted in this thread so-far has. Some people are simply more adept at certain skills than others. What it might take the "average" guy a 1000 jumps to learn, certain people will be able to learn in only a few hundred. That's the way of the world...some people are simply better than others at certain things. Several people made constructive comments in regards to keeping with coaching and staying tied in with Local Instructors when it comes to learning at a bit above the "standard curve". Good for you! Way to be open minded and understand that not everyone comes out of the same mold. For those of you that are convinced that there is only one mold that a skydiver pops out of, or that are too old and jaded to give a second thought that anyone might be able to learn faster than you did, maybe it's time you lay off a bit. I've been to more than my fair share of skydiving accidents, and I've been right in the middle of one that tried to smote me from this earth, so I definitely understand about Black Death. Anyone that's been around for a few years has seen it. It's simply part of the sport. We all do our best to prevent it, but we'll never defeat it. However, none of that changes the fact that we are all different and we all learn at different rates. It is possible to acquire skills and knowledge faster than the "average". Jason's got a good head on his shoulders and he understands what's what. I know this from countless hours of talking canopies/skydiving with him. If I didn't, I wouldn't have recommended that he purchase a 170. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I'll lend you mine...that would really stir it up, wouldn't it? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Julie- It's not my intent to pick on you with this, so please don't take it that way...BUT...you bought the rig as-is. With that said, you do have the option not to have them as part of your system. IMO, and only IMO, it is irresponsible for anyone to jump gear that they aren't confident in (ie- they are confident in the bits that make up the system, and they are confident in how those bits function.) If you don't know why something is the way it is, I would hope you would ask a RIGGER first (you know, the guys who are supposed to know about all this stuff). Asking the readers/posters on this group is fine, but you're likely to get a variety of answers and you pretty much have no way to validate them. This couldn't be further from the truth. One thing everyone learns about skiydiving at one point or another is that there are a whole bunch of ways to do things...some are better than others...but many get used. Some people are uninformed, some people choose to take certain risks for certain rewards, and some people just really need to look cool (don't laugh, it's more common than you think! ) It's great that you're looking for information, please keep doing that! But be sure you're seeking it from valid one-on-one sources as well as from the group (which I'm sure that you are). Your gear is your gear. It doesn't matter if it's new or used, you're the owner. The "bits" that are on there are there by your choice. If you don't want the extra bells and whistles, take them off...until you do, it's the same as choosing to have them put on. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

As a CCD, I'll tell you this: Time management is a crucial key to getting through my courses. This is especially prevalent when you get into the ground prep sections. You need to be familiar with the material, and able to teach the sections without doing too much on-site research. Time management is stressed because none of the skills being taught by coaches should take too long to teach. If you spend all day teaching something, your student will likely forget what you've taught them, or be confused. Teach using the applicable methods, be specific, stick to a plan, and don't try to teach too much at once... Read up and you'll do well! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

See, here's the thing...why do you even have soft links on your rig? The major advantage is that they reduce the bulk at the top of your risers and let you slip your slider over more easily, right? So if you aren't using them that way, then why have them...especially if you think they might cause you other problems. Are soft links stronger than regular links? Depends on what size hard links you have and what you make your soft links out of. Do soft links require more maintenance? Yes? Are soft links of any real benefit if you don't pull your slider down? Not really!! Not picking on ANYONE in particular with this (so don't even try to take it that way), but there are sooo many people who just get new stuff on their rig because that's what's new and cool that week. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE EVERY BELL AND WHISTLE AVAILABLE!!! If you don't know why you have something on your rig that everyone else doesn't have, ASK SOMEONE!! There was nothing wrong with the way risers were set up 5 years ago, but now (since PD found a cheaper way to for them to hook your canopy up to your risers) everyone has to get soft links! We've even gone so far as to make "stops" for your soft links so that you can't pull the slider down so easily. Christ people, there's nothing wrong with a set of #5 links and plastic bumpers! They're simple, straight forward and basically maintenance free. If you don't have any need for the fancier stuff, why have it?!? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

The beefiest ones out there have a sweet little metal tube with appropriate slots cut into them to receive the cables (almost the same as on a "soft" pillow reserve handle...which is not really all that soft

As was said much earlier on in this thread, it's never a good idea to put yourself at risk if you don't need to. I won't get into the arguments about what's "safer" (living through a reserve deployment or landing a canopy without a steering line), but if you have the time, at least you'll have the option. That was never the point. The point was, you should be comfortable with your canopy to the point of being able to land it on rear-risers IF YOU HAD TO. If you go back and re-read the post, you'll see that. But you'd be OK with it if you had to, yes? If not, than you certainly need to work on it. This may (or may not) be a qualification (for you personally) before you downsize...IMO, it should be...but its at least something you need to have thought about and practiced. The way I look at it is like driving a car (for the sake of this discussion, please assume we all drive manual transmissions). If you drove a manual trani and never learned any other way to slow down than to use the breaks, you'd be a fool. Yes? You have another tool at your disposal, you can downshift. Seems like a silly thing, right? Of course you downshift if you have a manual trani, duh! So what's different here? Why shouldn't learning rear-riser landings be thought of the same way? Only using your toggles to fly is like only using your steering wheel (and not the peddles) to drive...you wouldn't do that in your car, so why do it under canopy? This sport IS NOT SAFE. One way that you can help stack the odds in your favor and manage the risk better is to have more tools in your tool bag. If you're a newbie lurking this thread, please take this to heart: Learn how to fly ALL the controls on your canopy, and do it as soon as you can. You never know when you're going to run into a problem...it might only be 4 jumps after you've switched canopies, so start early! It'll save your life (or at least your legs) some day! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

That's probably one of the best things you can do in the sport today to help stack the odds in your favor. Good for you!