skycop

https://www.facebook.com/BadgeCams/videos/1279107782121176/ This is what "small" guns can do, and how quick things can go bad. But yes, I know, the guy was running away when they shot him................... "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

When someone is holding a gun, even a "small" one, it's not very ambiguous to those involved. They are treating this like it's an NFL replay, many armed encounters are within 3 feet, within 3 seconds, many under poor lighting conditions. The NFL has 5 camera angles, excellent lighting, and still different people draw different conclusions. If you have a gun in your hand, and you are ordered to drop it by armed cops, and you refuse, they aren't gonna wait for you to point it at them. There is a high likelihood you are going to get shot. The last two incidents were both 100% preventable, and those behaviors that caused them were not precipitated by the cops, the cops reacted to them. In Tulsa the reaction appears to be incorrect, and the officer has to answer to that criminally. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

I've been looking over a lot of info regarding this shooting, none of it looks good. I'd give an educated guess that this is a case of poor tactics and sympathetic fire in the case of the female officer. My theory would be the male officer discharges his taser to keep the guy from getting into his car. The guy is obviously not in a right state of mind for whatever reason, deploying the taser would have prevented this thing from going mobile. It's unclear if the officer deploying the taser gave the "TASER, TASER, TASER" warning. If he didn't (or even if he did), the pop of the cartridge can be mistaken for a gunshot, in high stress situations. The second issue would be positioning, it would appear the female officer was acting as cover officer for the taser. If so, she is not in a good position to cover, and/or observe the taser deployment. My theory is she was out of position, heard the pop, and fired. I see an indictment coming regardless. Now let the flaming begin............ "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

I've quoted that study in other threads. To many groups, certain media outlets, and some in here, facts really don't matter. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

By Justin Juozapavicius Associated Press TULSA, Okla. — An attorney for a white Oklahoma police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black man said the man ignored officers' commands, kept touching his pocket and was reaching through a window of his SUV when he was killed. Police video from the incident Friday shows 40-year-old Terence Crutcher walking away from the officers and toward his SUV with his hands up then approaching the side of his vehicle, before an officer shocks him with a stun gun and he is fatally shot. Police were called to the scene to respond to a report of a stalled vehicle. Police Chief Chuck Jordan announced Monday, before the video and audio recordings were released, that Crutcher had no weapon on him or in his SUV when he was shot. It's not clear from the footage what led Betty Shelby, the officer who fired the fatal shot, to draw her gun or what orders officers gave Crutcher. Shelby's attorney, Scott Wood, said Crutcher was not following the officers' commands and that Shelby was concerned because he kept reaching for his pocket as if he was carrying a weapon. "He has his hands up and is facing the car and looks at Shelby, and his left hand goes through the car window, and that's when she fired her shot," Wood told the Tulsa World for a report Tuesday. Local and federal investigations are underway to determine whether criminal charges are warranted in the shooting or if Crutcher's civil rights were violated. Tulsa police helicopter footage was among several clips showing the shooting of Crutcher and its aftermath. In that video, a man in the helicopter that arrives above the scene as Crutcher walks to the vehicle can be heard saying "time for a Taser." He then says: "That looks like a bad dude, too. Probably on something." Crutcher's twin sister, Tiffany Crutcher, called for charges Monday. "The big bad dude was my twin brother. That big bad dude was a father," she said. "That big bad dude was a son. That big bad dude was enrolled at Tulsa Community College, just wanting to make us proud. That big bad dude loved God. That big bad dude was at church singing with all of his flaws, every week. That big bad dude, that's who he was." Police video shows Crutcher walking toward his SUV that is stopped in the middle of the road. His hands are up and a female officer is following him. As Crutcher approaches the driver's side of the SUV, three male officers walk up and Crutcher appears to lower his hands and place them on the vehicle. The officers surround him, making it harder to see his actions from the dashboard camera's angle. Crutcher can be seen dropping to the ground. Someone on the police radio says, "I think he may have just been tasered." One of the officers near Crutcher backs up slightly. Then almost immediately, someone can be heard yelling, "Shots fired!" Crutcher's head then drops, leaving him completely lying out in the street. After that, someone on the police radio can be heard saying, "Shots fired. We have one suspect down." Officer Tyler Turnbough, who is also white, used a stun gun on Crutcher, police said. Shelby's attorney, Wood, said Turnbough fired the stun gun at the same time Shelby opened fire because both perceived a threat. The shooting comes just four months after former Tulsa County volunteer deputy Robert Bates was sentenced to four years in prison on a second-degree manslaughter conviction in the 2015 death of an unarmed black man. Bates said he mistakenly grabbed his gun instead of his Taser. Shelby worked as a Tulsa County sheriff's deputy for four years before joining the Tulsa Police Department in December 2011, officials said. She has been placed on paid leave. The initial moments of Crutcher's encounter with police are not shown in the footage, and Wood said the situation unfolded for about 2 minutes before the videos began. Shelby did not activate her patrol car's dashcam, said police spokeswoman Jeanne MacKenzie, and the ground-level video released Monday came from the car of a second officer who arrived at the scene. Initial police briefings indicated Crutcher was not obeying officers' commands, but MacKenzie said Monday she didn't know what Crutcher was doing that prompted police to shoot. Two 911 calls described an SUV that had been abandoned in the middle of the road. One unidentified caller said the driver was acting strangely, adding, "I think he's smoking something." After the shooting, Crutcher could be seen lying on the side of the road, blood pooling around his body, for nearly two minutes before anyone checked on him. When asked why police did not provide immediate assistance, MacKenzie said: "I don't know that we have protocol on how to render aid to people." The American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma, which also called for charges, said Crutcher was left to bleed while officers stood by. The group's executive director, Ryan Kiesel, said Crutcher's death shows "how little regard" Tulsa police have for the community's minorities. Dozens of protesters gathered outside the county courthouse Monday evening holding signs that read, "Justice 4 Crutch" and "Don't Shoot." U.S. Attorney Danny C. Williams said the Department of Justice will conduct a civil rights investigation to determine if charges should be brought in the case. Speaking Monday in Tulsa, civil rights attorney Benjamin Crump said Crutcher committed no crime and gave officers no reason to shoot him. "When unarmed people of color break down on the side of the road, we're not treated as citizens needing help. We're treated as, I guess, criminals — suspects that they fear," said Crump, who is representing Crutcher's family just as he did relatives of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed, black Florida teenager who was fatally shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer in 2012. He said Tulsa police drew their own conclusions about Crutcher. "So I guess it's a crime now to be a big black man," Crump said. "My God, help us." Copyright 2016 The Associated Press "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

You are exactly correct, the "bad actors" are less than 1%, I'd put that up against any other profession. The only difference is a "good cop" is only one controversial incident away from the "bad cop, bad actor" mantra. Ask Darren Wilson. The way for accountability is to get involved, get to know your local police department or precinct. Take a citizens police academy, do a ride along, the results will open your eyes. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

That is complete and utter BS. But in the last week 5 cops have been shot, with at least one killed. They have responded and engaged threats involving IED's and armed terrorists, during these engagements the only casualties were LEO's and the bad guy. During lawsuits if you follow all the policy and procedures, the city or governing agency can be released from liability. By definition, guess where that can leave the individual officer? Potentially on their own. Hardly, extensive debriefs and training updates are constant. For everyone of these controversial incidents, there are ten of thousands similar incidents every year that go relatively as planned/trained. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Ok, So you still have no idea, thanks for the clarification. Here is another interaction I doubt you'll see on many news outlets for any length of time. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3db_1474325245 I've done this several times as well, so have many of my colleagues, you'll never see it on the news. Although many years ago, one of my guys had one jump. Remember the before mentioned shit sandwich? Get the idea now? "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Really? Even if an IED/VBED is suspected, what would you want as confirmation? The detonation? With that said, I agree to an extent. There was an incident in Cincinnati in 2001 that triggered riots. The officer was chasing a guy who turned around and grabbed at his waist. It was low light conditions and the officer fired. The suspect was unarmed, he was charged with manslaughter and he was acquitted. IMHO that officer should have been terminated, he wasn't. It's not that easy. In Afghanistan the contacts usually aren't within three feet, within 3 seconds. In South Carolina a trooper panicked and shot a guy for simply reaching into his car. He was found criminally negligent and is in jail, and rightfully so. That incident did occur somewhat in a vacuum, criminal charges resulted. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

You have no idea. I've said it numerous times, these things don't happen in a vacuum. Sometimes you are given a shit sandwich, and have to take a huge bite, through no fault of your own many times. Cops make mistakes, I've also said this over and over. A pilot is negligent and kills a couple hundred people, the media, and misguided people don't take to the internet and say all pilots are "bad". Medical malpractice kills thousands yearly, yet all doctors aren't indicted. Good cops sometimes make bad decisions, good people sometimes make bad or stupid decisions as well. All the facts aren't out in this, nor is the investigation complete. If the DOJ is involved and the shooting is bad, they will prosecute. In the case of Darren Wilson, his shooting wasn't bad, yet his life was ruined. Like I said earlier, the tox screen should be interesting, I also read where the individual said something to the effect of "it's gonna blow" during the incident. Then ignored commands to stop and headed back to his vehicle, reaching the drivers side where his hands were down, and he may have been attempting to reach into the vehicle. If those facts are true, what would you do? Given the events of the last week? "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Ok, let me rephrase that; I can say, with a high degree of certainty, the same could go for a large white guy, in this situation, not following commands in the same manner. I stand corrected, I'll never say never. I've been involved in numerous types of these situations, I can say race was not a factor. In one case the guy ended up dying (not from a gun shot). He was white, and it sucked just as bad to be there. No one wins in these. What was that you were saying about hyperbole? No, not really. When things go sideways it sucks for everyone, luckily it doesn't happen as much as the some groups and the media would like you to believe. The false narratives have already started on this, along with selective editing. As I stated his hands were not raised after he reached the side of the truck. But the media is showing him walking away with his hands raised, there is no still shot of him at the side of the truck that I've seen. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Agreed to an extent, but the same would go for a large white guy, in this situation, not following commands in the same manner. It's actions, these things do not happen in a vacuum. How many experienced jumpers have you known, or read about who botch their emergency procedures? These are trained people who should react properly, but don't for whatever reason. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

His hands were raised as he walked away, back to the truck, they were not raised after he gets near the drivers door. You have no idea, but hyperbole seems to be all the rage these days. It's very possible, hence the we'll see part. I linked an actual example of a recent situation where the suspect refused to show his hands. He then waited to draw the officers in, then spun around and opened fire. You chose to ignore that. So yes, it is a red flag, when someone refuses to show their hands, then refuses other commands as well. You may not like it, but that's not relevant to the situation at hand. For further perspective this last week, there were 5 cops shot within a 48 hour period 2 were targeted along with a targeted stabbing. LEO's also thwarted and responded to 3 terrorist attacks, and engaged in a gun battle with the suspect in one of those attacks. Are cops on edge? Yes they are. I've had two friends retire recently because they've had enough. In this case, if she panicked there very well could be criminal charges. Again, we'll see. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

No, but it's a red flag, especially if it's done repeatedly and other commands are ignored as well. It will be interesting to see the toxicology results on this guy. My WAG is it's either drug related, or a medical/psychological situation. Either way it looks bad, we'll see. This is what can happen when someone ignores commands to show their hands. Again red flags, there is no do over. http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/221578006-Video-Austin-police-fatally-shoot-suspect-in-gun-battle/ "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

That's why I said possibly, I do know that there are a large amount of "assault rifles" kept at home by Swiss reservists. Every time I'd travel by train in Switzerland there were several older guys, with rifles, traveling to training on the train. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

We've already had this conversation, many times. No other free society on earth is as heavily armed as ours, like it or not. (With the possible exception of the Swiss). I'll repeat this once again. In my travels, all the cops I've met in other countries think American cops are nuts. Because our society is so heavily armed with weapons..................... and rights. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

It's an illustration of why cops still have to be wary, even after a suspect is on the ground, sometimes even when partially under control. People wonder why Alton Sterling was shot, this is a glaring example. Same goes for the situation in Ohio, looking for robbery suspects. They are located and run, kid pulls a weapon from his waistband, it's game over. It's sad, a tragedy on many levels, but the predictable/justified result. Hesitation in this business can lead to many unintended results, very few of them good. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Funny, It's the same two guys, almost every time..... "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Really, Reach much? "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

But, but, but...............he was going to give up...... http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/221578006-Video-Austin-police-fatally-shoot-suspect-in-gun-battle/ "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Ya think........ "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

MMMMkkkkkkkkkkk...... Had he just robbed someone, then ran from the cops, then pointed a realistic facsimile pistol (or rifle) at them, I can virtually guarantee the outcome would be the same. Apples meet Oranges.............again.......... "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

Sadly this isn't the Onion, it's Slate.com. I've linked this this piece of "journalism" regarding the recent shooting in Columbus Ohio. This is simply incendiary, by any objective standard. This isn't an op-ed, it's a "news" story. I realize Slate is a left leaning outlet, but this goes well beyond reporting. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/09/15/tyree_king_13_killed_by_police_in_columbus_ohio.html The last three paragraphs are incredible, they sum up what I've been talking about. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=009_1473893879 This happens everyday in this country, but you see very little of it. As far as the kid goes, when I watched the football coach slap the shit of a kid in the 8th grade, should I have intervened? At that time the kid deserved it and learned a valuable lesson. Have you been in a school in the last 20yrs? The lack of respect and discipline is appalling, but by today's standards this is unacceptable behavior and I wouldn't have tolerated it. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

A complete job task analysis would be a bit lengthy, I was speaking in very general terms. All those teams we coached, kids we mentored, Explorers Post I ran, special events we organized, just to name a few. Some done on my own time, with my own dime, might say that goes without saying. I run into grown adults who still know my name, and thank me for helping them in any of the above endeavors. That's what goes with actually serving your community. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"