Flock vertical rates?

[NoValidTitle 0]

So as you can tell by my jump profile I'm a new WS jumper. I'm just curious what the average flock shoots for as a base vertical speed. I've heard around 70mph so far but to me that seems fast. I'm looking to find a good range to practice staying in. I'm sure not all flocks fly at the same speed I'm just looking for a general. I do need to figure out how to fall fast so I can keep up with the big guys though. My comfortable body position right now on a T-Bird(thanks Simon!) is in the mid 40's. The 70's seems fast to me haha.

Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

[phoenixlpr 0]

90-100 Km/h

[roostnureye 2]

anywhere from 60-80mph usually in the usa, a little less on the other side of the pond... if you want to practice flocking by yourself focus on hitting the brakes and not popping up.

Flock University FWC / ZFlock
B.A.S.E. 1580
Aussie BASE 121

[LukeH 0]

Add weights

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Add weights

No, that won't make money for the suit manufacturers. He should buy a new suit.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mccordia 73]

I think thats only US manufacturer policy...in EU suit manufacturers laugh at you and tell you to learn to fly

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

I think thats only US manufacturer policy...in EU suit manufacturers laugh at you and tell you to learn to fly

That's what he wants to do - fly rather than plummet with the others.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mccordia 73]

Phoenix-Fly is currently developing new flocking tools, for those who suffer from friends who refuse to actually use the suits they are wearing..

The Flockinator and the Speedo are two easy to use add-ons that will work with any wingsuit model currently on the market.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[piisfish 135]

Quote

Phoenix-Fly is currently developing new flocking tools, for those who suffer from friends who refuse to actually use the suits they are wearing..

The Flockinator and the Speedo are two easy to use add-ons that will work with any wingsuit model currently on the market.

I want mine

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[NoValidTitle 0]

Quote

Quote

I think thats only US manufacturer policy...in EU suit manufacturers laugh at you and tell you to learn to fly

That's what he wants to do - fly rather than plummet with the others.

Exactly

Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

[mccordia 73]

I think a big problem flocking is, that we always seem to adjust to the speed/pace of the lowest skilled performer, and even than, try and work out a speed where he/she has range.

Though its commendable in a 'lets all hold hands and be friends' kinda way, ment to not upset people, teaching those people to fly at good speeds would be a much better idea.

If you cant get to an FS formation, or FF bigway. You're simply off that group, and onto doing 2 ways or small groups that teach you to fly at a higher performance level. The group doesnt 'dumb down' to match the lowest skilled performer.

This doesnt mean you have to be an anti-social ass, but working with newer people (or older flyers who dont fly that well) on small jumps can be much more rewarding than lying there with your feet on your butt, arms back staring at someones ankle for 60 seconds, waiting for breakoff so you can finaly fly for a bit.

Sadly in our dicipline instead of upgrading skills, its often downgrading performance or buying bigger suits. The focus on skill doesnt match the focus on gear by far...

That said, its also of good thing for your skills envelope to learn and fly at any speed. Be it fast down, or balistic forward. Some people are great flyers at 100% speed, but seem to not posses anything else but 'on/off' setting for the flying. Learn to work with all ranges. But for sure...try and focus on the stuff that actually flies. Perhaps trying to get the group of anvills to actually speed up a bit more.

Its better to not be in your slot, but chasing a group, and working towards flying at a higher level....learning new things....
If the people you jump with dont challenge you, perhaps switch it around...fly base and challenge them...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[NoValidTitle 0]

Quote

I think a big problem flocking is, that we always seem to adjust to the speed/pace of the lowest skilled performer, and even than, try and work out a speed where he/she has range.

Though its commendable in a 'lets all hold hands and be friends' kinda way, ment to not upset people, teaching those people to fly at good speeds would be a much better idea.

If you cant get to an FS formation, or FF bigway. You're simply off that group, and onto doing 2 ways or small groups that teach you to fly at a higher performance level. The group doesnt 'dumb down' to match the lowest skilled performer.

This doesnt mean you have to be an anti-social ass, but working with newer people (or older flyers who dont fly that well) on small jumps can be much more rewarding than lying there with your feet on your butt, arms back staring at someones ankle for 60 seconds, waiting for breakoff so you can finaly fly for a bit.

Sadly in our dicipline instead of upgrading skills, its often downgrading performance or buying bigger suits. The focus on skill doesnt match the focus on gear by far...

That said, its also of good thing for your skills envelope to learn and fly at any speed. Be it fast down, or balistic forward. Some people are great flyers at 100% speed, but seem to not posses anything else but 'on/off' setting for the flying. Learn to work with all ranges. But for sure...try and focus on the stuff that actually flies. Perhaps trying to get the group of anvills to actually speed up a bit more.

Its better to not be in your slot, but chasing a group, and working towards flying at a higher level....learning new things....
If the people you jump with dont challenge you, perhaps switch it around...fly base and challenge them...

Yeah I didn't anticipate being as floaty as I am in a WS. I'm 5'10" 110lbs so I'm sure that has something to do with it. I will spend a lot of time learning to dive it seems. Once I learn to dive well, I'll have to learn to fly that fast.

Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

[mccordia 73]

Being floaty is often used. But in what way are you 'floaty'

If your weight is the issue, you're flying the same glide-angle as the rest of the group, and not catching up. Lacking the wingload to fly the same speed.

If you're constantly overspeeding the group forward, overshooting. Than they are not flying forward enough, and need to stop using their wingsuits as camera-suits. Something a lot of people do in big wingsuits especially. Fly at okay-ish fallrates, but completely lacking forward speed. Only using their wingsuit to slow their fallrate, not using to generate forward speed.

If you have more forward speed that they have. Its actually mostly their skills/flying style that are the problem...not your weight..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[NoValidTitle 0]

Quote

Being floaty is often used. But in what way are you 'floaty'

If your weight is the issue, you're flying the same glide-angle as the rest of the group, and not catching up. Lacking the wingload to fly the same speed.

If you're constantly overspeeding the group forward, overshooting. Than they are not flying forward enough, and need to stop using their wingsuits as camera-suits. Something a lot of people do in big wingsuits especially. Fly at okay-ish fallrates, but completely lacking forward speed. Only using their wingsuit to slow their fallrate, not using to generate forward speed.

If you have more forward speed that they have. Its actually mostly their skills/flying style that are the problem...not your weight..

So keep in mind I only have 18 jumps on a WS so far but from the few tries I've made at keeping with the group what happens is I can keep up with the forward speed of the group without a problem, they just continue to drop below me.

Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

[Butters 0]

Quote

Quote

Being floaty is often used. But in what way are you 'floaty'

If your weight is the issue, you're flying the same glide-angle as the rest of the group, and not catching up. Lacking the wingload to fly the same speed.

If you're constantly overspeeding the group forward, overshooting. Than they are not flying forward enough, and need to stop using their wingsuits as camera-suits. Something a lot of people do in big wingsuits especially. Fly at okay-ish fallrates, but completely lacking forward speed. Only using their wingsuit to slow their fallrate, not using to generate forward speed.

If you have more forward speed that they have. Its actually mostly their skills/flying style that are the problem...not your weight..

So keep in mind I only have 18 jumps on a WS so far but from the few tries I've made at keeping with the group what happens is I can keep up with the forward speed of the group without a problem, they just continue to drop below me.

What wingsuit are you flying?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[NoValidTitle 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Being floaty is often used. But in what way are you 'floaty'

If your weight is the issue, you're flying the same glide-angle as the rest of the group, and not catching up. Lacking the wingload to fly the same speed.

If you're constantly overspeeding the group forward, overshooting. Than they are not flying forward enough, and need to stop using their wingsuits as camera-suits. Something a lot of people do in big wingsuits especially. Fly at okay-ish fallrates, but completely lacking forward speed. Only using their wingsuit to slow their fallrate, not using to generate forward speed.

If you have more forward speed that they have. Its actually mostly their skills/flying style that are the problem...not your weight..

So keep in mind I only have 18 jumps on a WS so far but from the few tries I've made at keeping with the group what happens is I can keep up with the forward speed of the group without a problem, they just continue to drop below me.

What wingsuit are you flying?

T-Bird

Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

[michalm21 0]

Hey James,
Come on out this weekend. As we talked earlier, being 5'11 110lbs starting out in a WS is not easy to get yourself flying with others. Like the opposite of someone who is 220 flying an Intro
It will be challenging for sure for a while.

I will be organizing again. As you already know, besides me and Walt, nobody who is jumping with us is experienced in flying any formations. So it is complicated right off the bat. Having 4-6 people total if we are lucky right now, with 4 out of those being very new to flying a wing or flying in formations (and with big range in neutral fallrate) we are trying to start from the ground up.

Keep up with us throughout the summer, there will be smaller stuff, more jumps devoted to individual skills, one on one jumps, small 3 ways flying tight and fast (forward), building to hopefully bigger ones.

I will admit, as we are starting with jumpers having basically 0 experience, it will be a long road, but be patient, make suggestions, and I will make sure everyone is flying and having a good time this summer.

Finally, eat some pizza damn it

[mccordia 73]

Skip the formations, and focus on 2 ways playing with speed, level and docks. That will teach you so much more than only doing formations.

A wingsuit bigways, in the end, is nothing more than a 2 way with a dozen or so added people causing a lot of distracting variables that make it harder to focus on your own flying.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[NoValidTitle 0]

Quote

Hey James,
Come on out this weekend. As we talked earlier, being 5'11 110lbs starting out in a WS is not easy to get yourself flying with others. Like the opposite of someone who is 220 flying an Intro
It will be challenging for sure for a while.

I will be organizing again. As you already know, besides me and Walt, nobody who is jumping with us is experienced in flying any formations. So it is complicated right off the bat. Having 4-6 people total if we are lucky right now, with 4 out of those being very new to flying a wing or flying in formations (and with big range in neutral fallrate) we are trying to start from the ground up.

Keep up with us throughout the summer, there will be smaller stuff, more jumps devoted to individual skills, one on one jumps, small 3 ways flying tight and fast (forward), building to hopefully bigger ones.

I will admit, as we are starting with jumpers having basically 0 experience, it will be a long road, but be patient, make suggestions, and I will make sure everyone is flying and having a good time this summer.

Finally, eat some pizza damn it

Hey Michal!

Yeah I'm not upset or anything. I'm a noob myself, I just need to learn an opposite set of skills as most people. =P I'm having a blast flying with people even if I'm spending a lot of time above them. Along the lines of what Jarno said I don't think people should have to fall slower just because I can't get down to them.

I do eat pizza, lots of it. haha I was just blessed/cursed with an insane metabolism.

Hopefully I can make it out on Saturday, the GF is trying to drag me to some get together. I will definitely be out on Sunday.

Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Being floaty is often used. But in what way are you 'floaty'

If your weight is the issue, you're flying the same glide-angle as the rest of the group, and not catching up. Lacking the wingload to fly the same speed.

If you're constantly overspeeding the group forward, overshooting. Than they are not flying forward enough, and need to stop using their wingsuits as camera-suits. Something a lot of people do in big wingsuits especially. Fly at okay-ish fallrates, but completely lacking forward speed. Only using their wingsuit to slow their fallrate, not using to generate forward speed.

If you have more forward speed that they have. Its actually mostly their skills/flying style that are the problem...not your weight..

We all fly better when in the middle of our range. In RW (FS) weights, sleeves, swoop cords... are useful tools used to adjust the center of the range to suit the event. I see no reason why weights shouldn't be used as a range adjuster when flying a WS in a flock. I'm skinny and I'm much more comfortable in most flocks when wearing 10 - 13 pounds of lead under my wingsuit.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mccordia 73]

Quote

when flying a WS in a flock

The key to that statement is 'when flying'....

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Butters 0]

Quote

Quote

Being floaty is often used. But in what way are you 'floaty'

If your weight is the issue, you're flying the same glide-angle as the rest of the group, and not catching up. Lacking the wingload to fly the same speed.

If you're constantly overspeeding the group forward, overshooting. Than they are not flying forward enough, and need to stop using their wingsuits as camera-suits. Something a lot of people do in big wingsuits especially. Fly at okay-ish fallrates, but completely lacking forward speed. Only using their wingsuit to slow their fallrate, not using to generate forward speed.

If you have more forward speed that they have. Its actually mostly their skills/flying style that are the problem...not your weight..

We all fly better when in the middle of our range. In RW (FS) weights, sleeves, swoop cords... are useful tools used to adjust the center of the range to suit the event. I see no reason why weights shouldn't be used as a range adjuster when flying a WS in a flock. I'm skinny and I'm much more comfortable in most flocks when wearing 10 - 13 pounds of lead under my wingsuit.

I fly better near the top of my range. Also, in RW (FS) you don't wear a baggy suit and lead ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[mccordia 73]

Lets skip the whole suit debate...but do agree that the best flocking happens in the 75% to 85% range. Not 50% (which is 'middle' if you take the words from a professor).

Ive seen and done jumps with people flying the smallest of suits at 75 to 80% which made some of the people in huge suits comment 'man..that was fast' showing its more a case of people settling to much on a certain (often low) performance range.....not learning to truly fly their suits...

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Lets skip the whole suit debate...but do agree that the best flocking happens in the 75% to 85% range. Not 50% (which is 'middle' if you take the words from a professor).

Ive seen and done jumps with people flying the smallest of suits at 75 to 80% which made some of the people in huge suits comment 'man..that was fast' showing its more a case of people settling to much on a certain (often low) performance range.....not learning to truly fly their suits...

I've seen pictures of such flocks, with people "flying" with a big arch, their feet up and their arms way behind them. Some of us prefer flying, however.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Being floaty is often used. But in what way are you 'floaty'

If your weight is the issue, you're flying the same glide-angle as the rest of the group, and not catching up. Lacking the wingload to fly the same speed.

If you're constantly overspeeding the group forward, overshooting. Than they are not flying forward enough, and need to stop using their wingsuits as camera-suits. Something a lot of people do in big wingsuits especially. Fly at okay-ish fallrates, but completely lacking forward speed. Only using their wingsuit to slow their fallrate, not using to generate forward speed.

If you have more forward speed that they have. Its actually mostly their skills/flying style that are the problem...not your weight..

We all fly better when in the middle of our range. In RW (FS) weights, sleeves, swoop cords... are useful tools used to adjust the center of the range to suit the event. I see no reason why weights shouldn't be used as a range adjuster when flying a WS in a flock. I'm skinny and I'm much more comfortable in most flocks when wearing 10 - 13 pounds of lead under my wingsuit.

I fly better near the top of my range. ..

Define "fly".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.