Phoenix-Fly Tracking Gear Failing/Blowing Up

[elias123 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc_tiZ3P19c

During a wingsuit training jump, practicing barrel rolls and wingsuit-style pulls, my tracking pants blew up. I just did a wingsuit-style dummy pull where after I could not open or separate my feet anymore. This is when I knew something went wrong, so after about 5 seconds I turn and track back towards the dropzone. It is then that my pants blew up entirely, making me go head low. I decided to keep a tracking position and pull like a wingsuiter would since I could not separate my feet.

I think this happened because I lost 40 pounds in about a month, slimming my waist down. that way air got into my pants at the waist area, exploding it from within. (at least that's what I think has happened)

Comment, critics, feedback ... all welcome.

(Also posted this in safety and training forum)

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[fasted3 0]

Exactly what part(s) failed?
Did the belt break; buckle come apart?
If more than one failure point, what do you think broke first?
Losing a lot of weight like that would certainly have an effect on the fit of the suit, and a large air pocket inside could increase the stress a lot.
My PF pants do fit tighter on me. No problem with them after maybe 50 - 75 jumps by me and others.
Good job on an interesting jump.
Really curious about the belt.

But what do I know?

[mccordia 73]

Its not a common mailfunction.
On wingsuits, its 'easy' to blow em up (I think especialy Scarry Perry is the king at that). When there is a small tear or hole, and there is a lot of pressure on the fabric, its easy to suddenly (explosivly) tear a hole in a wing.

But to be honest, I think what Im seeing in the video is something completely different. It looks like the loose fit makes the pants slide off your body, and the airpressure/drag cleanly inverts them, only hanging by the cuff (as at 1:17 into the video, I seem to see a pair of Pantz without tears of flapping bits of fabric, just inverted).
The wind flapping and trashing the fabric around at 140mph then does the rest, and probably causing some tearing at some part.

Im not sure if thats what happened, but if I had seen that video without hearing your description, thats what I would guess happened there.

That aside. Dont spend valuable freefall on doing 'trainingjumps' on wingsuit pulls etc on your own, before you're actually starting on a real wingsuit. Its better to have this stuff taught to you during a good groundcourse/FFC (which Ill gladly do with you for free, seeing you are keeping your promise to work up towards the required experience level first), and spending this time/jumps on learning stuff like relative flying to others. Teaching you a lot of fine body controll with regards to leveling, upfloating, diving etc that will help you a lot in both formation and (solo) performance flying when you transition to a wingsuit at some point.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[elias123 0]

Quote

Exactly what part(s) failed?
Did the belt break; buckle come apart?
If more than one failure point, what do you think broke first?
Losing a lot of weight like that would certainly have an effect on the fit of the suit, and a large air pocket inside could increase the stress a lot.
My PF pants do fit tighter on me. No problem with them after maybe 50 - 75 jumps by me and others.
Good job on an interesting jump.
Really curious about the belt.

It is (according to my limited and humble opinion) pretty much exactly like Jarno said :"It looks like the loose fit makes the pants slide off your body, and the airpressure/drag cleanly inverts them, only hanging by the cuff (as at 1:17 into the video, I seem to see a pair of Pantz without tears of flapping bits of fabric, just inverted)".
When I landed on the ground my pants were simply hanging to my shoes totally inverted. The buckle is history, it lies somewhere in the harbor of Antwerp, but I think a rigger can easily find a way to fix my pants. It must have been a combination of what Jarno said plus the belt buckle not being able to cope with the forces involved (I think).

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[LetsGoOutside 0]

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But to be honest, I think what Im seeing in the video is something completely different. It looks like the loose fit makes the pants slide off your body, and the airpressure/drag cleanly inverts them, only hanging by the cuff (as at 1:17 into the video, I seem to see a pair of Pantz without tears of flapping bits of fabric, just inverted).
The wind flapping and trashing the fabric around at 140mph then does the rest, and probably causing some tearing at some part.

I'm seeing the same thing.

[mccordia 73]

The weightloss you mentioned could be the reason the fit was soo loose it made your pants come off.
Remind me to use this excuse , when Im in a room with a screamimg lady while Im doing 'the penguin shuffle'

I understood you wrong when you sayd 'blew up' (as I thought the pants had torn/exploded) but I guess you only ment 'overly inflated'.

Glad to hear the buckle was the only thing really damaged in the process.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[elias123 0]

Quote

That aside. Dont spend valuable freefall on doing 'trainingjumps' on wingsuit pulls etc on your own, before you're actually starting on a real wingsuit. Its better to have this stuff taught to you during a good groundcourse/FFC (which Ill gladly do with you for free, seeing you are keeping your promise to work up towards the required experience level first), and spending this time/jumps on learning stuff like relative flying to others. Teaching you a lot of fine body control with regards to leveling, upfloating, diving etc that will help you a lot in both formation and (solo) performance flying when you transition to a wingsuit at some point.

I've been focusing on wingsuiting and training towards it ever since we met, doing some other flying in between. I'm really motivated to start wingsuiting and although wingsuit training jumps in a tracking suit are definitely not the same, it makes me feel more confident. After My pants blew up I made some jumps on a birdman impact suit (which is inferior to the PF tracking suit if one would ask me), just to do some barrel rolls (which went perfectly) and especially to practice closing my legs and arms and bend my knees to 'simulate' a wingsuit pull. So far it all went good :) It makes me feel more secure and confident if I practice stuff enough.

Thank you so much for offering a FFC. I'll keep on jumping and I'm confident that pretty soon we can start making some work out of it :)
Thanks again.

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[elias123 0]

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I understood you wrong when you sayd 'blew up' (as I thought the pants had torn/exploded) but I guess you only ment 'overly inflated'

Yes, your right, I misformulated :)

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[mccordia 73]

Just to clarify:

In Dutch/Belgian: blow up/blew up is written as op blazen, and it means to inflate
In English (Eli, pay attention): blow up/blew up means EXPLODED!

The Pants merely INFLATED on this jump, and didnt EXPLODE or tear

That aside, in German, the term blazen means something else (and much funnier)

But anyways: Eli> your suit INFLATED, it didnt BLOW UP. Your tracking might be dynamite, but this is a bit overdone

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[matto765 0]

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I think this happened because I lost 40 pounds in about a month, slimming my waist down

I can't fix your pants for you, but I will buy you a cheeseburger.

[elias123 0]

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That aside, in German, the term blazen means something else (and much funnier)

What does it mean then? Pretty curious now ^^

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[elias123 0]

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I think this happened because I lost 40 pounds in about a month, slimming my waist down

I can't fix your pants for you, but I will buy you a cheeseburger.

Now you've got me drooling all over my keyboard

"In a mad world, only the mad are sane"

[virgin-burner 1]

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That aside, in German, the term blazen means something else (and much funnier)

What does it mean then? Pretty curious now ^^

its actually spelled blasen, and it IS a really enjoyable thing on the receiving end..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Zeemax 0]

Is it similar to the dutch word pijpen?

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[Gadget 0]

Damn you do speak your languages macca!

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If people from Poland are called Poles, why aren't people from Holland called Holes???
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[Zeemax 0]

Het spijt me, ik spreek geen Nederlands

Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE
Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies

[fasted3 0]

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But anyways: Eli> your suit INFLATED, it didnt BLOW UP. Your tracking might be dynamite, but this is a bit overdone

I agree, in fact all that happened is a failure in the belt. Even though mine fit well, if the buckle broke or slid off the webbing, my pants would fall off too. I don't find this a flaw with mine, but do think the belt buckle could be better. I've had a bit of sliding occour, and any damage to the plastic could cause the buckle to fail, especially with the added stress of a loose fit. I do think that what was provided is adaquite, it just requires attention on the part of the jumper, and should not be used if any problems are seen. I wear cool boxers, but still...

But what do I know?

[ScottGray 0]

Agreed -- I have a pair of the PF Tracking Pants and about 3 years ago while in flight I began to think "Wow that's very breezy and a little cold!" felt back and NO PANTS !!! They had slide down to my knees.

The issue was that I was jumping a Mirage container with the free fly leg straps to bottom of the container webbing. It had lifted the back side of the Pants up slightly, airflow had gotten under the belt and ..... result was PANTS AROUND THE KNEES. Pulled the pants back up and once on the ground promptly removed the webbing. Keep that belt tight !!

WSI-5 / PFI-51 / EGI-112 / S-Fly
The Brothers Gray Wing Suit Academy
Contact us for first flight and basic flocking courses at your DZ or boogie.
www.thebrothersgray.com

[Sangi 0]

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Agreed -- I have a pair of the PF Tracking Pants and about 3 years ago while in flight I began to think "Wow that's very breezy and a little cold!" felt back and NO PANTS !!!

LOOOOOOOL

"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean