Deniq 0 #1 May 15, 2009 Dear wingsuit community, My experience for wingsuit flying in Germany show that this sport is in Germany illegal! Rush development of the wingsuit technique in the last years bring the wingsuit pilots in Germany to the boundary of the German air laws for skydiving. Air authority is lazy and live in the old times and can’t accept wingsuit flying like different one when normal free fall (with quasi zero forward movement). The limitations are for example: - DZ area of 2 NM - Time between last drop (exit of last jumper from aircraft) and coming with canopy less than 800 meters must be max. 2 minutes. If you break these rules, you can lose much money and in worst case a skydiver license. Hypothetical, every wingsuit pilot jump in Germany illegal and can get any time the problems with authority! What is the situation with wingsuit flying in other countries? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohanW 0 #2 May 15, 2009 What law are you referring to? And is that an actual law? "DZ area" in the Netherlands would probably be defined by the NOTAM, which has been in place for years for most permanent dropzones, long before the advent of wingsuit flying. Can't blame "Air authority" (CAA?) for not giving us more space when we didn't ask for it. Similar may apply to the 2 minutes to take your canopy down below 800 meters. I have never heard of any such rule in NL though. What laws specifically are you referring to? Who makes the rules? What did they say when you asked them (politely, of course And what is this skydiver license you're speaking of? Where can I get one? What do I have to do? I have a flimsy from some private (non-governmental) Dutch skydiver's association that says I've paid my dues for a couple of years, and that they think I know a thing or two, but no police officer is going to know to take that from me, nor will it really hamper my jumping, nor will he have any legal ground for that. Are things different in Germany? Johan. I am. I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #3 May 15, 2009 QuoteWhat law are you referring to? And is that an actual law Its a law up to the point where several jumpers in Marl are now facing quote extensive fines for breaking the rules on freefall time/passing a cloud etc. So yes, a very real problem.JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #4 May 15, 2009 Quote The limitations are for example: - DZ area of 2 NM - Time between last drop (exit of last jumper from aircraft) and coming with canopy less than 800 meters must be max. 2 minutes. -fly in circles -drop wingsuits first -do more freefly-wingsuit like german Rolf problem solved strange rules from the country of the Skyray and the Gryphonscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #5 May 18, 2009 Wait- don't these same rules impact CRW jumps? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #6 May 18, 2009 Quote Wait- don't these same rules impact CRW jumps? who does CReW anyways ?? CreW is soooo 70's.... scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #7 May 18, 2009 Do these new/strickter rules in any way impact Wings over Marl? Asking all participants to fly circles, and hoping the first jumper doesnt fly too long (to have the time between him/her and the last opening canopy not be too long) all seems a bit counterproductive.. Wings over Marl...at Skydive Teuge? JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #8 May 18, 2009 who does CReW anyways ?? CreW is soooo 70's.... Exactly my point. Wingsuit flight profiles don't fly any longer or farther than a Crw flight profile. Flight patterns and methods of separation are very similar. Like you say they have been conducted since the 70's. Is this new airspace regulation threatening wingsuits? To answer your very first question just a bunch of assholes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #9 May 18, 2009 In a large section of EU airspace, CREW is limited to 6k or 9k exit/deployment altitudes. So not sure we want to adhere to those rules eitherJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #10 May 18, 2009 Didn't know that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StefB 0 #11 May 18, 2009 And when you need more e.g. canopy open in 3000 m and 30 km away from the DZ - a nice cross country flight... In Germany your CRW pilot (or better your jumpplane pilot, because he has radio and contact to air traffic control) should ask for a "Flugverkehrskontrollfreigabe" (air traffic control clearance). And your CRW formation must have the (realistic) intention to land on a "zugelassener Flugplatz" (authorized airfield). Both requirements fulfilled then up you go! This topic is in section "Luftrecht" question 23 (sic!) in the german question catalog for wannabe skydivers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #12 May 18, 2009 Outside of some regions where CRW/high altitude deployments arent an issue (outside of the normal DZ operation), the aviation laws here also require an airplane with a transponder code to fly/circle around the canopies (if they open over 6000 ft). Something you only see at dropzones such as skydive rotterdam here in Holland (which is wedged in between all kinds of sh*t, with regards to airtraffic for Rotterdam Intl Airport, and Amsterdam Schiphol)JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #13 May 18, 2009 That is also the case here near some busy arrival routes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deniq 0 #14 May 19, 2009 Extension to my previous post: if you will post video and photo material from German DZs in internet, just check the space between jumpers and clouds. Cool videos/photos of flybys on clouds edge can be under the circumstances big problem for german skydivers. Authority checks time-to-time youtube content Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #15 May 19, 2009 Quote Extension to my previous post: if you will post video and photo material from German DZs in internet, just check the space between jumpers and clouds. Cool videos/photos of flybys on clouds edge can be under the circumstances big problem for german skydivers. Authority checks time-to-time youtube content Just mention in the description its shot in BelgiumJC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
