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Side-Spin

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Today I went into a side-spin, a pretty entertaining side-spin. It happened when I rolled over to back-fly and didn't close my leg-wing. It happened so fast that I didn't have time to try to out-fly it. I was spinning on my side, faster, faster, and faster. My first instinct was ... ball up. I tried. I really tried. However, the speed of the spin kept me from being able to fully ball up. The more I tried to fully ball up, the faster I spun. My next instinct was ... open up my wings and attempt to out-fly it. I quickly opened up my wings and found myself out of the spin and into a tumble which I managed to out-fly. The rest of the flight was uneventful.

The lesson ... close your leg-wing when rolling over. I managed to do much better rolling over and back-flying the next flight. I'm still humbled by those who appear to back-fly effortlessly in the videos I watch. Someday ...
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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Are you sure thats the lesson?

How about the fact that balling up while spinning was next to, or in your case, impossible. And this is the defacto escape maneuver for a flat spin as per the wingsuit instructors. I'm not saying that flat spins are all that prevalent in wingsuits just that balling up might just be the wrong thing to try and do.

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Are you sure thats the lesson?



Yes.

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How about the fact that balling up while spinning was next to, or in your case, impossible.



While balling up didn't stop a side-spin, balling up has successfully stopped flat-spins (on belly and back).

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And this is the defacto escape maneuver for a flat spin as per the wingsuit instructors.



I think it should be the first thing to try. Like an emergency procedure. One try, two try, next thing.

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I'm not saying that flat spins are all that prevalent in wingsuits just that balling up might just be the wrong thing to try and do.



It might be the wrong thing but I think it should be the first thing (once you've realized you can't out-fly it).

PS: Do you think arching (instead of balling up) would stop a side-spin? I'm thinking about trying to induce the side-spin again ...
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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I've never been in a flat spin in a wingsuit but I have been in a flat spin on my back, hands out above my head in free fall that I purposely induced very easily. I tried to ball up or just arch and could not, any attempt spun me up faster. it sucked up a lot of altitude...... later on the ground some Aff instructors said the right thing to do is get into a delta or introduce some dis-symetry to my body.

When all of the hullabaloo about wingsuit flats spins came out I tried to induce one at altitude to investigate recovery procedures but was never able to get into one in a wingsuit. I remember how hard it was to ball up, near impossible. Not sure I'd recommend balling up as a recovery for a wingsuit flat spin. But I'm no expert. I've tried to get into a flat spin in a wingsuit and couldn't. I've never seen one live or on video so don't have any second person data to extrapolate from.

I have been in a couple of side spins while in a fetal position on exit that just wanted to spin faster, once I opened my wings they stopped and I flew out of them.

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I've never seen one live or on video so don't have any second person data to extrapolate from.



To see a 1st person point of view of a flat spin click HERE
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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I've tumbled (a collapsed wing ;)), balled up, and recovered. I've flat-spun (bad exit :$), balled up, and recovered. I've side-spun (left open leg-wing while rolling over to back-fly :$), balled up, popped opened wings, tumbled, and recovered.

I've got a hypothesis for the side-spin. Now to test it ...

Edit: I'll get video. :P
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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To see a 1st person point of view of a flat spin click HERE



Looks like a knees together and bent, back to earth every which way mostly head down tumble. Not even remotely a flat spin of any significant centrifugal magnatude but thanks for posting it..... next

When I think of flat spin I'm talking, like I experienced without a wingsuit, a dizzying but constant turn rate that locks your body flat and prevents recovery.

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I've never seen one live or on video so don't have any second person data to extrapolate from.



To see a 1st person point of view of a flat spin click HERE



I remember that view. :D However, my spin was much shorter in duration. Try, try, try next thing (and cutting away your wings should be the second to last thing to try). The video may confirm my hypothesis. Did you notice during the side-spin portion that the feet were askew? Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I'm thinking the leg was a rotor.
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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To see a 1st person point of view of a flat spin click HERE



Looks like a knees together and bent, back to earth every which way mostly head down tumble. Not even remotely a flat spin of any significant centrifugal magnatude but thanks for posting it..... next



I've been in a flat-spin (belly to earth) and a side-spin. Neither was tumbling. Both got faster and faster. If my hypothesis is correct then I'll be able to get video.
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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Please do.

I've got tons of video of head down carves, arched half loops with continuous heading changes, tumbles and take outs galore. I'm looking forward to seeing a video of real death defying flat spin in a wingsuit. The kind that had plenty of wingsuit people scared to try new stuff for years.

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Please do.

I've got tons of video of head down carves, arched half loops with continuous heading changes, tumbles and take outs galore. I'm looking forward to seeing a video of real death defying flat spin in a wingsuit. The kind that had plenty of wingsuit people scared to try new stuff for years.



Death defying ... :D I don't think so. I haven't defied death three times. You get yourself into a spin and you get yourself out, that's what it's all about. Oh, it's also about sharing how you got yourself out (so people have more things to try than cutting away their arm wings or worse, pulling).

PS: Malcom, was I tumbling during the spin or was I just side-spinning? I remember just side-spinning but you had a better view ...
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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Dude,

track out of a flatspin. close your arm and leg wings. arch and track. This will do several things. First if you are in a flatspin and ball up you fall out quickly and violently. a track out will send you out with minimal altitude loss. If you are in the sky with others and you ball up you change vertical direction VERY quickly. like when a freeflier "corks" out.
I f the track method does not work then ball up and use the method that currently works, but im telling you tracking out will stop the spin quicker and safer.

Justin
Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

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Thanks. I'll try it. Also, I'm keeping in mind the change in vertical speeds when I'm trying new things (especially with others). As far as recovering, my methods have worked (fairly quickly) so far but I'm always open to trying new methods.
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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To see a 1st person point of view of a flat spin click HERE



Looks like a knees together and bent, back to earth every which way mostly head down tumble. Not even remotely a flat spin of any significant centrifugal magnatude but thanks for posting it..... next

When I think of flat spin I'm talking, like I experienced without a wingsuit, a dizzying but constant turn rate that locks your body flat and prevents recovery.




Then stop being lazy and find the other outside videos of flat spins on SM.com. We've only discussed this topic for about the last 6 years, some of the threads you've posted to in fact. Flat spins can happen and the earth really is round, whether you believe it or not.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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Then stop being lazy and find the other outside videos of flat spins on SM.com. We've only discussed this topic for about the last 6 years, some of the threads you've posted to in fact. Flat spins can happen and the earth really is round, whether you believe it or not.



I have searched most of the SM WS videos and still have not seen a true flat spin. You are right I have been posting my lack of faith that they exist for years. You can call me lazy but I just don't believe you..... and I'd much rather just post pics of my -new to me- SM1 under the pic posting protocols set forth by BDrake. Feel free to slap a Campos on there. Don't be lazy;)

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I watched this particular jump from above also in some what of a ball to keep up with him. It started off as a bit of a carving spiral, but then progressed into a fetal position side spin. After watching it I thought a possible solution would be to arch out of it and then extend arms. However due to my *extreme* lack of any meaningful experience that idea might have been the worst.
Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

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I doubt it is the worst. I'm still thinking about trying it if I can induce the side-spin again.

PS: I'm glad that last flight went so well because it was my 100th wingsuit flight. Next time we need to plan for more overs and unders though ... :D
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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I watched this particular jump from above also in some what of a ball to keep up with him. It started off as a bit of a carving spiral, but then progressed into a fetal position side spin. After watching it I thought a possible solution would be to arch out of it and then extend arms. However due to my *extreme* lack of any meaningful experience that idea might have been the worst.



Sounds exactly like what you should do. We really need some footage of a real spin and not just footage of tumbling poor airmanship ( that we've all experienced from time to time) . That spin talk scare people and needlessly so.

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dude everything is a vanity purchase. but thats a nice one, and those stripes really do slim down your figure!

flat spins don't exist! at the best we are talking of a semantic disagreement. more likely its a metaphysical conflict on the nature of human flight.
word to your mother,
RJ$$
BASE 1117

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