Scrumpot 1 #26 August 18, 2011 Milked his way down real close to his hard-deck/decision altitude too ...and THEN went for a release of the toggles? ...??? - What'd he think he was gonna do then, just start then actually flying to LAND this? (sure looks like it) VERY lucky that did not spin him up even more/worse at that point and put him into some high-speed dirt! At least he looked at his alt while he was doing this, but as you already point out Douglas - a very real concern that he apparently had NO CLUE that he was not working with a simple line-twist, and that he continued to "work" that as he did, as if it was. He almost CAUSED himself more troubles for sure here, and hope he knows it is time to seriously work on filling his EXPERIENCE BUCKET, as there certainly cannot be much left for him to have to tap into the next time, out of his LUCK BUCKET I'm sure. coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #27 August 18, 2011 Quote Another case of someone having too small of a reserve and not being able to land it. If he had landed on pavement it would probably in the incidents thread.... Support your post. It's an Optimum 160 reserve loaded about 1:1. He normally flies a 135 Storm. In my rental rig, he was flying a 150 Storm. Almost the same canopy. He could have been under an Optimum 253 and had a similar faceplant. How is failing to flare relevant to reserve size? He also landed the wrong direction in the deeply rowed clods, landing perpendicular vs parallel to the rows. Reserve size has nothing to do with it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 177 #28 August 18, 2011 So when does he leave for Norway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #29 August 18, 2011 Quote So when does he leave for Norway? As soon as the record event here in the USA is over (no joke) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #30 August 18, 2011 Quote Quote So when does he leave for Norway? As soon as the record event here in the USA is over (no joke) ........“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #31 August 18, 2011 Quote Quote not his rig, so why keep the handles in the first place!? Quite right! I hold onto them because it is a matter of pride to have them after a mal, and I don't want them to interfere with the reserve deployment - let them go and that is just what they might do. Perhaps the guy wanted to check out how hard a no flare landing would be. apparently, not hard enough to beat some reason into him.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voilsb 1 #32 August 18, 2011 Is he doing the 49 way next month?Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #33 August 19, 2011 Quote Quote So when does he leave for Norway? As soon as the record event here in the USA is over (no joke) And people ask why I don't fly wingsuits anymore.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 177 #34 August 19, 2011 Quote Quote So when does he leave for Norway? As soon as the record event here in the USA is over (no joke) Some things are so predictable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #35 August 19, 2011 You rent this guy one of your wingsuits and are now slagging him off for his performance. IMO you need to man up and take some responsibility for not checking him out thoroughly enough before taking his $$$. Bad form. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #36 August 19, 2011 Quote You rent this guy one of your wingsuits and are now slagging him off for his performance. IMO you need to man up and take some responsibility for not checking him out thoroughly enough before taking his $$$. Bad form. Wingsuit (Vampire 3),h e brought with him from overseas. Suit is his. Helmet is his, goggles are his. Audible is mine. Rig is mine (we don't allow ellipticals like Katanas on wingsuits, and that's what he had. If it were my wingsuit to have taken away from him, I woulda taken it away. If I'd been able to foresee his putting the bridle through the lines...it might have been a different outcome. 400 jumps...you think he can self-manage. What do you want mt to 'man up' to? That I put him under a bigger main than he jumps back home? That we tried very had to get him out of the V3 and into a P2 or Ghost? That we took the time to watch/film his landings due to deployment and landing issues? Or do we man up that we told him he'd soon have problems if he didn't get the basics down.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinciflies 0 #37 August 19, 2011 You let him jump your rig with a wingsuit you admit to being unhappy with him using. You could have told him "no". Now, hindsight is a wonderful thing and everyone fucks up, but I don't care for the way you have posted this as "what an idiot" on here when YOU had the chance to stop it happening. That is all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #38 August 19, 2011 QuoteYou let him jump your rig with a wingsuit you admit to being unhappy with him using. You could have told him "no". Now, hindsight is a wonderful thing and everyone fucks up, but I don't care for the way you have posted this as "what an idiot" on here when YOU had the chance to stop it happening. That is all. Let;s try again.... Foreigner comes in with rig that cannot be used for wingsuiting (his own) We rent rigs We rent him a rig one size bigger than he normally jumps. I personally don't care for the V3 on a lowtimer, but he has logs showing he's jumped it. Signed off by someone I respect. He agrees to recover/repair any damage or loss to the rig. Deal made. The choice of wingsuit had nothing to do with this incident. The choice of rig had nothing to do with this incident. And I'd let him jump it again, right now (if the repack were done) and have yet another conversation about hitting the tail and deploying in a carve. Past that...he's a big boy. Many dropzones won't give folks the time of day. The problem isn't the main, isn't the container, isn't the wingsuit. The problem is in the way it was packed, the way it was misread in the sky, and the way the cutaway procedures occurred. There is also the problem of the no-flare landing. None of these problems relate to his acuity to manage this parachute on this wingsuit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #39 August 19, 2011 QuoteIMO you need to man up and take some responsibility for not checking him out thoroughly enough before taking his $$$. Next time do you propose that he has a rigger standing over his shoulder ensuring that the container is properly packed and closed? Should I start doing this at DZ's and charging for my time to supervise the process? Wingsuit or not, the malfunction was still packed in there. It could have been a hop and pop and he would've still gotten the same result. He took too long trying to figure out that it wasn't a line twist (although clearly visible). A jumper with 400+ jumps should be more versed in their EP's and identifying a malfunction. Also, I'm sure in those 400+ jumps he's learned to flare atleast once or twice... unless hes been jumping a bunch of old T-10's (from what I recall, they flared like shit) It looks like a case of brain lock, thinking he could fix something that isn't going to get fixed without slinging a hook knife or releasing the main. The worst mal I've had in the past > 200 jumps has been a couple brake fires, but I caught them before they spun me up, put some riser input in to straighten me out, and released the other side, all is well. If I would've looked up and saw that mal, I would be testing out my reserve as high as I could."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #40 August 19, 2011 Quote hes been jumping a bunch of old T-10's (from what I recall, they flared like shit) Might explain why you don't like T-10 rounds...... There not designed to "flair" did you toggle it or riser it...LOL Almost as bad as piss poor packing & cutaway.......you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #41 August 19, 2011 Quote Quote hes been jumping a bunch of old T-10's (from what I recall, they flared like shit) Might explain why you don't like T-10 rounds...... There not designed to "flair" did you toggle it or riser it...LOL Almost as bad as piss poor packing & cutaway....... I don't know of ANY canopies that are designed to 'flair' Toggles? What toggles? "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #42 August 19, 2011 Quote Quote So when does he leave for Norway? As soon as the record event here in the USA is over (no joke) I disagree, I think the records are a big joke. PS: It's the name of the game, buy a big wingsuit to fly fast and a small canopy to swoop fast. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rnicks 0 #43 August 20, 2011 QuoteIt looks like a case of brain lock, thinking he could fix something that isn't going to get fixed without slinging a hook knife or releasing the main. Several replies have indicated he was wrong for not chopping sooner. My question is why? It was stated that this was a fairly new wingsuit for him and the first jump on a new canopy. It appeared to have been a solo. (Have no idea on that) With the combo of a new canopy and relatively new suit, it's logical to conclude that he pulled high? If he did pull high, and was on a vampire, there wouldn't have been anyone anywhere near him. It was not a high speed mal. It only started spinning when he released the toggles. Now, it's quite clear from the video that this was unrecoverable. But what's the harm in trying if there is nobody else in the air and it's a slow speed mal. I wouldn't want to chop my canopy at 4000ft, especially somebody elses canopy, unless there was immediate danger. Am I missing something? Apparently though I'm in the minority. So educate me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #44 August 20, 2011 Quote Quote It looks like a case of brain lock, thinking he could fix something that isn't going to get fixed without slinging a hook knife or releasing the main. Several replies have indicated he was wrong for not chopping sooner. My question is why? It was stated that this was a fairly new wingsuit for him and the first jump on a new canopy. It appeared to have been a solo. (Have no idea on that) With the combo of a new canopy and relatively new suit, it's logical to conclude that he pulled high? If he did pull high, and was on a vampire, there wouldn't have been anyone anywhere near him. It was not a high speed mal. It only started spinning when he released the toggles. Now, it's quite clear from the video that this was unrecoverable. But what's the harm in trying if there is nobody else in the air and it's a slow speed mal. I wouldn't want to chop my canopy at 4000ft, especially somebody elses canopy, unless there was immediate danger. Am I missing something? Apparently though I'm in the minority. So educate me! maybe you should hook up with the guy; 500 jumps, and it seems you dont know what you're talking about.. but hey, what do i know, i jump a big wingsuit and a small wing.. how about a threeseome with all of us!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rnicks 0 #45 August 20, 2011 You're right, I don't. That's why I asked. Have anything to help me understand?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #46 August 20, 2011 Quote You're right, I don't. That's why I asked. Have anything to help me understand?? If you have a problem you can not easily fix, do not fuck around with it...what if it gets considerably worse and puts you in a position where you can no longer cut away. Or what happens if you have a problem with plan B and need to do some in air rigging on THAT parachute in order to survive. NEVER give away altitude when you have a problem. Losing track of altitude is the reason some fatalities happen, try to clear it ONCE and C-YA! IF your concern is the borrowed parachute...cut away, open the reserve immediately, and follow the main down. Edited to add: ...and if you have a knotted mess over your head, the LAST thing you want to do is release a brake and pull down the toggle. What did he think would happen? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rnicks 0 #47 August 20, 2011 QuoteIf you have a problem you can not easily fix, do not fuck around with it...what if it gets considerably worse and puts you in a position where you can no longer cut away. Or what happens if you have a problem with plan B and need to do some in air rigging on THAT parachute in order to survive. Great advice! And non snarky too! See VB, it's possible. I guess I am tainted with my only cutaway experience. I was ridiculed to death for cutting away so high. 2000 ft, which was my hard deck at the time. (Low jump numbers) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #48 August 20, 2011 Quote Quote If you have a problem you can not easily fix, do not fuck around with it...what if it gets considerably worse and puts you in a position where you can no longer cut away. Or what happens if you have a problem with plan B and need to do some in air rigging on THAT parachute in order to survive. Great advice! And non snarky too! See VB, it's possible. I guess I am tainted with my only cutaway experience. I was ridiculed to death for cutting away so high. 2000 ft, which was my hard deck at the time. (Low jump numbers) Well, if you cut away anytime in the near future, you better be DELIVERING that bottle to me. Oh, and sacrificing a couple cute girls to me if you want me to pack that damn rig again! Jim, thanks for that explanation... Couldn't have said it better."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rnicks 0 #49 August 20, 2011 QuoteOh, and sacrificing a couple cute girls to me if you want me to pack that damn rig again! Oh, shush you! Besides, I tried to get you to come out here last weekend for our boogie. I told you there would be cute girls here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #50 August 20, 2011 Quote Quote If you have a problem you can not easily fix, do not fuck around with it...what if it gets considerably worse and puts you in a position where you can no longer cut away. Or what happens if you have a problem with plan B and need to do some in air rigging on THAT parachute in order to survive. Great advice! And non snarky too! See VB, it's possible. I guess I am tainted with my only cutaway experience. I was ridiculed to death for cutting away so high. 2000 ft, which was my hard deck at the time. (Low jump numbers) well mate, "i am what i am" as they say.. and it's a proven fact that i am an asshole, cant help it.. my offer is still up tough! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
