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Quotehe "popped" up when he found that by changing his body position, he could achieve both forward and upward motion. He was flying around 78 mph and after popping up changed his vertical descent rate to about 65.
hmmm, your explanation still isn't making it any clearer for me.
TomAiello 26
Quotehmmm, your explanation still isn't making it any clearer for me.
How about this?
Popping up: Effecting a relatively instantaneous transition in flight modes from "dirty" flight (air separating over the back to a greater extent) to "clean" flight (airflow staying connected to a greater extent). A suit with more "pop" is able to transition more quickly between these states, and also has a greater flight range between the two states (i.e. the "dirty" flight is further from the "clean" flight).
The ability to "pop up" is a desirable characteristic in an instructors suit, or in flocking, because it gives the ability to quickly match a wide range of flight profiles, when a flock or student may be altering flight profile dramatically in a short time.
I'm still not sure I'll adopt the term "pop" - although in german "poppen" is slang for shagging
Heffro1 0
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Tony Suits
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The111 1
Quote"dirty" flight (air separating over the back to a greater extent)
"clean" flight (airflow staying connected to a greater extent)
I like that you did not use absolutes here. I.e. separating "to an extent" and staying connected "to an extent." This is in line with what Chuck was saying about flight not being binary (either flying "ON" or falling/stalling "OFF").
Even the most efficient wingsuit flying only has laminar flow to an extent. We are air displacers as much as we are gliders.
Quotehave flown the Raptor for 182 seconds from 13,500ft. to 2,500ft. I have done 204 seconds in a Mach 1.
You could win some nice prizes in Europe /Russia this year
TomAiello 26
QuoteI'm still not sure I'll adopt the term "pop"...
Although it's not a precise technical term, it has the value that it "feels" right, at least in the American vernacular. The term "pop" or "pop up" very clearly captures the feeling of that quick acceleration, for the average american hearing the word(s).
Besides, imagine how much fun you could have using the term in videos that were watched by germans. "And here, Chuck is poppen up on Jeffro--those wacky Americans..."
normiss 721
mccordia 73
Quotehave flown the Raptor for 182 seconds from 13,500ft. to 2,500ft. I have done 204 seconds in a Mach 1
41 mph avg in the raptor
36 mph avg in the Mach1
You definately should make your way down to Russia and Marl
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
Tonto 1
Quote
The term "pop" is definitely not a technical term but is widely used here in America wingsuiters.
On that note, the term "caw-caw" is widely used here as well and you're surely not not likely to find in any aerodynamics books either...
It's not just in America.
t
Heffro1 0
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Tony Suits
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We, as wingsuiters, are FAR from "unpowered aircraft". At best we are "super trackers" with aerodynamic aids. We are far more akin to parachutes and ought to be defining our gliding terms more in common parachute terms than out-of-some-book aerodynamic terms.
Only in the best of maxed-out performance jumps are we anywhere near creating lift as James and some others are trying to categorize it. MOST wingsuit dives are not flown maxed out. MOST wingsuit jumps are leisurely flocks. Some pretty fast and clean, some pretty dirty. I simply refuse to refer to flocking as "stall flying" which has become vogue in some circles. Saying that only flat-out wingsuiting is flying and subordinating all other flight modes is simply not going to cut it. At least not here.
Stalling is a condition where something stops flying and is not controllable. Are we creating lift? No? But we sure as hell can exhibit control, so therefore we are not "stalled." We are definitely flying so long as we are in control. Still, if you must use aviation analogies, I will just ask you what you call a Harrier when it is in transition mode? Is it stalled? Nope, it's flying just fine. We as skydivers in wingsuits simply have a tremendously large transition mode. It goes all the way from falling straight down to maxed out flight. It's semantics. As the GREAT MAJORITY of wingsuit flyers cruise along in that middle ground, we need to be more open minded when it comes to defining "flying".
That is all. I need to go outside and make my fourth wingsuit flight of the day.
Chuck
mccordia 73
QuoteI have a hard time understanding why an experienced skydiver has not ever heard the term "pop"
Aside from the movie 'cherrie poppins' I once downloaded, I also never really heard anyone use this term..
We usualy just call it upfloating or lifting..just like the other diciplines call it?
And I believe there are different ways of doing so.
You can go to full flight to win those few meters, but you can also do a massive push to get back up to someones level by pulling a wingsuit in a near stall. Transforming all forward speed to lift for a few seconds, and just as you would start falling out of the sky, continue flying.
The second method is the one used most often in my experience, as it enables you to gain a few meters, without overshooting the student due to more forward speed..
But tons of different suits, peoples never have the same weight or build, and theres more then one way to fly...
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?
QuoteAnd I believe there are different ways of doing so.
You can go to full flight to win those few meters, but you can also do a massive push to get back up to someones level by pulling a wingsuit in a near stall. Transforming all forward speed to lift for a few seconds, and just as you would start falling out of the sky, continue flying.
The second method is the one used most often in my experience, as it enables you to gain a few meters, without overshooting the student due to more forward speed..
I am talking about both actually, Jarno, as both apply in the kind of skydives I routinely do. You might have to simply pop straight up a meter to do an over-under, or you might have to pop up and speed up at the same time because the flock leader (or your student) changed the pace suddenly. Your "upfloating" episode in the flylikebrick series shows version 1.
By the way, those are fantastic visual training tools and I show them alot to people we coach here at Z-hills.
Chuck
TomAiello 26
QuoteQuoteI have a hard time understanding why an experienced skydiver has not ever heard the term "pop"
Aside from the movie 'cherrie poppins' I once downloaded, I also never really heard anyone use this term..
It may be a difference in slang terms used on either side of the Atlantic.
Ward exited nice and stable, did his practice touches, and began flying his suit, legs out and flat. A few seconds later, he "popped" up when he found that by changing his body position, he could achieve both forward and upward motion (slight change in his hips and arm postition). He was flying around 78 mph and after popping up changed his vertical descent rate to about 65.
The term "pop" is definitely not a technical term but is widely used here in America wingsuiters.
On that note, the term "caw-caw" is widely used here as well and you're surely not not likely to find in any aerodynamics books either...
Katie
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