Wingsuit demo and smoke, how to pop it

[kansasskydiver 0]

We're planning a wing suit demo and are planning on jumping smoke. 2 red canisters on our left foot, cutaway system at arms reach, everything all worked out but popping the smoke itself. There will be 2 of us exiting a 182 side by side. We were thinking of having a 3rd person in the plane to reach out and pop the cans for us on the step. Does this sound like the best way as it's very hard to reach down and pop them ourselves while on the step.

The other option is to try to fire it remotely with a string/wire. Anyone have any experience doing that?

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[Bowie 0]

If you are using 4 min smoke cannisters pop it as early as possible in the door on the way out.
They use about 10 sec before they start smoking and is first really smoking after 15- 20 sec. Then it looks fine with the trail of smoke from the plane.
When i do demos in Ws i usually pop the smoke in the door climp out first , And let the other jumpers exit before me...
http://www.flyinggnu.dk/?page=5&mode=sendvideo&id=8

This a link to one of my first movies
i call it smoking Wingsuit.

Bo

Bo Wienberg

vimeo.com/bowienberg

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I would just prime the pins and run a gutted 550 lanyard far enough up my leg that I could reach it either on the step or right after exit. Are you planning on using M-18 smoke or "cold" smoke?

[kansasskydiver 0]

Cold smoke, just the stuff that paragear sells (but red not white), m18's were too expensive and frankly, just scared me too much. We'll each be wearing 2 cans stacked side by side on our left foot with a proper release system that will allow us to chop the bracket in flight as needed without having to reach our foot. The smoke should be here today or tomorrow, but if they're like the white smoke, don't the pins have to be pulled straight out in order to work properly?

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[kansasskydiver 0]

Bowie, thanks for the video. Is that with 1 or 2 cans? And was that they typical paragear cold smoke?

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[Bowie 0]

That is only 1 can. (Orange)
The smoke is 4 min hot smoke normally used for emergency smoke on boats.
It is not as good as cold smoke but it is the only smoke available here in Dk.

Bo Wienberg

Bo Wienberg

vimeo.com/bowienberg

[kevin922 0]

Honestly it is pointless to jump a cold smoke with wingsuit.. unless you're jumping 2 - 3 of them at a time. I've jumped them before and you can't see anything from the ground, and it is very difficult from the sky.

At any rate - i HIGHLY recommend doing smoke jumps without a wingsuit before doing one with a wingsuit. There is a LOT (more) potential "oh shits" that can happen when you add pyro to a wingsuit jump. I jump my bracket on the left foot, the same foot with my LQRS.

At any rate, your question was about popping smoke.. the smoke I use has a pin in it, i have break cord going up to around my knees/hips which i pull with my foot out the door.. i give the can a few seconds to get going and away I go.

Did 3 this weekend, people on the ground loved it.

I did have a scary situation at Nasa Space center a few years ago during some demos where I SWORE i felt a burning sensation on my KNEE.. needless to say I wasn't looking where I was flying because I was too worried about cutting a suit up, chopping, dumping smoke, everything else you can think of.

Lucky for me nothing was on fire and I still to this day can't figure out how an ember or something else could have burnt my knee but not made it through the suit.

2 weekends ago I went to pull the pin and the platform my smoke was mounted on moved with the string... that would have been bad if i got out as it could have done a 180 and started blowing smoke on my suit directly, almost certainly catching the thing on fire. (Needless to say that was an aborted smoke jump).

moral of story - make sure you have your shit together and thought out before doing smoke on a wingsuit jump.

Make sure you have a GOOD hook knife, not one of those plastic ones.

Kevin

[kansasskydiver 0]

Kevin thanks for the info. We're both jumping 2 cans, left foot and it's the stuff from paragear. I'm going to pick it up today and take a look at it to determine if it can be fired remotely with the string. Is the smoke you've jumped this same stuff? White canister, appears to be plastic etc?

And yes I've jumped smoke a number of times, just not on the wingsuit. We a number of practice jumps together, sorting out the exit, flying with the brakcet, cutting it away (used a leesh to catch it for the trail runs) etc. Everything seems to be in line other than popping it on the step.

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[mccordia 73]

I think it should possible to just swing your feet out, and pop the smoke-canisters while you are still sitting in the door.
And then proceed to climb out with the rest of your body.
And once you're outside, have your buddy do the same thing...feet out, pop smoke, climb out and both go!

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[unclecharlie95 3]

there was this guy once who was going to jump smoke for the first time. He got offered the choice between 2 military smokes, one red, one white.

He selected the red smoke and mounted it on suitable bracket, wearing good footwear.

The guy went off to do the demo jump. He popped the smoke in the door, waiting 10 sec and then exited.

At about the same time his friends who were waiting for the plane to return to take the next load decided to let off the other smoke. The instant the pin was removed a 5ft white "phosphorus" flame shot out of the top of the unit and it continued to burn like this for about 3 minutes.

They immediately radioed the pilot to stop the guy from jumping. To their relief the pilot reported that the guy was under canopy and appeared to be okay.

The white smoke was "a high intensity phosphorus" smoke grenade. Luckily the guy had chosen the normal smoke...

Try before you buy... and take a knife with you

BASEstore.it

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Anyone in the military would know that white "M-18 HC" would be incredibly dumb to jump.

[unclecharlie95 3]

Quote

Anyone in the military would know that white "M-18 HC" would be incredibly dumb to jump.

The guy wasn't in the military, but luckily he preferred red over white

BASEstore.it

[kevin922 0]

Yes i've jumped the paragear crap. If I recall correctly it was just a pull top type thing had a plastic circle attached to what looks like the safety wire that is used on aircraft parts... i just bent down and pulled it in the door before I went.. not a huge deal.

Have fun, take pics.

Kevin

[kansasskydiver 0]

Lots of pictures. Digital from the plane, I'll be wearing my video and stills backwards and then the other jumper involved will be wearing his video camera as well. We got some AWESOME test runs done finding the sweet spot for both of us in the videos. Should be a good time. It'll be a Kansas State record hahah well, seeing as there isn't one yet, if I fly 10ft it's a record We're just doing the demo and throwing in the "added" excitement for the whuffos

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[kansasskydiver 0]

Here's the proposed demo

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[kevin922 0]

Are you going to do a test run with the cold smoke to see how visible it is?

Looks neat, wear water gear.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

That's great, Chris. Have fun (and get better smoke next time).

[kansasskydiver 0]

Quote

Are you going to do a test run with the cold smoke to see how visible it is?

Looks neat, wear water gear.

We're not going to be able to do a test run on the smoke to see how visable it is. We were going to last weekend, but they're burning fields and it was just too smoky the way it was. So we jumped the brackets and tested everything out. As for the water gear, there actually isn't very much water in the lake, it's about a foot deep not and there is actually a rather large island in the middle. They're going to have a boat out there just in case for us and we do have belly mount water gear as needed.

It's too bad the lake/river is covered by driftwood or it'd make a nice swoop course back onto shore

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[kansasskydiver 0]

Well we did the demo Saturday and, well, it was eventfull needless to say. We didn't cross the lake, I made it about half way across before I pulled and headed back to the other side. Here's what happen:

1) I snagged my suit really bad on exit just the weekend before, sent it off to hopefully get fixed but the rigger didn't feel comfortable touching it. You can see the hole in the picture (red and white suit)

2) Winds were VERY strong, 55mph at 9k, ground winds around 20mph or so. The initial plan was to take it West to East though the winds were coming out of 350. So we shifted it to a downwind jump run heading South West.

3) I was wearing the GPS on my chest strap to track the dive and the pilot had been flying with it all day, first time too using GPS to spot, so he got a bit comfortable

4) Cessna, I'm sitting student, other birdman in the JM position, poor visibility of where we were. Pilot though know what direction to take the run, we've practied it 2 weekends in a row, downwind approach 1.5 miles etc.

5)"Alright we're there" I put my feet out, pop the smoke, climbed all the way out, looked down and F*CK!!! Other jumper gets out, pops his smoke and sees the same thing as me. We're facing into the wind, 3 miles from the landing zone, and completely in the wrong area of the lake. We hold on the wing, trying to yell at the pilot to bank to the right to take us back to our spot, not working so well, finally we have to abort the jump and just get off.

6)Fly the suit as hard as I could, trying to make any headway, got about halfway over the lake, still on the south side into a headwind and realized this was going nowhere. Pulled at 6k, identified that the other jumper did the same and aborted back to the east side of the lake. We both landing safely in a large field next to the highway, almost exactly where we got out at...

7) The field is surrounded by barbwire. I was walking along the side of it, thought I was clear, wind blew and I heard a snap... Actually caught the thread of my top skin and pulled it tight, causing it to shrink the top skin on my canopy then finally break...

So what we learned. ALWAYS check your spot, even if it's been planned, talked over and checked out on the map. Doesn't mean you're actually there
Jumping smoke isn't a big deal, and jump M-18's next time

Always have a backup plan to abort as needed

Never walk close to a barbwire fence

Included are some shots of the exit

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[bodypilot1 0]

Your first mistake was probably knowing the winds on the ground were at 20mph and still wanted to do a demo.

Second was probably having a pilot that was new to spotting with a GPS.

Third was getting out of the plane without spotting correctly, then trying to give corrections while trying to hang onto the strut in a high drag suit, having already pulled your smoke.

Not to rag on you, but people learn from stupid mistakes, and stupid mistakes make us all look bad.

Never be affraid to call off a demo, or be arffaid to stay in the plane!

Glad no one was hurt.


Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[kansasskydiver 0]

Quote

Your first mistake was probably knowing the winds on the ground were at 20mph and still wanted to do a demo.

It's Kansas, we're lucky if we get a day that is below 20mph

And he wasn't spotting the load with GPS, I was wearing it on my chest, he was spotting it like he had before.

Yes we messed up, that's why I posted it, so others could learn for my mistake

<--- See look, pink dolphins DO exist!

[bodypilot1 0]

Then your first step to possibly correcting it from happening again, would be possibly to go through all the steps and training to get a USPA PRO rating?

There is plenty of knowledge in the rating information to help you make the correct decision to abort ANY demo.


Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[kevin922 0]

Quote

Jumping smoke isn't a big deal, and jump M-18's next time

This is probably the dumbest thing you can think, especially jumping smoke with a wingsuit.

If my prior posts didn't illustrate all the oh shits that are possible with jumping smoke, especially with a wingsuit, then PM me and i'll try to explain a little better.

While cold smoke is much safer than M18s, when you start jumping M18s you increase the risk a good bit due to the high temps those things get.

I'd say this whole jump was a cluster... I saw the word "first" in there at some point, which should be in the same sentence with demo - unless you're describing the location at which you're doing the demo.

Glad you didn't end up in the water :)

Any other pics?