Fallrates in different suits/experience levels

[mccordia 73]

I was just wondering what kind of times/fall-rate people where experiencing at what weight and how many jumps it took them to get their fallrate down to where it's at now...?

When you first start out and you hear those stories of 2 to 3 minute dives from 12000 ft, you tend tend to get discouraged quickly when you cant get any slower then xxx mph the first few jumps.

A small list of (now 'slow-falling':)) peoples exprience (BM jumps and maybe regular jumps when they started?) could maybe give fast-falling first-timers something to aim for...?

Maybe something like this?

fixional example
El Duderino
1,85 (meters) 85Kg
1st BM jump at 900 jumps

0-10 BM jumps - Classic II - 90 mph avg.
10-30 BM jumps - Classic II - 65 mph avg (trying hard)
400 BM jumps - S3 - 11 mph avg (on my back picking my nose)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[dragon2 0]

So far it doesn't seem te matter which suit I jump.... In 88 BM jumps so far, all I get is 50 mph, in a Classic, ClassicII, Skyflyer or a S3!! Trying hard usually results in 55 or more mph tho
The MTR1 was slower tho.

I do get lots of speed in the skyflyers, but so far, no extra lift. Probably takes way more then the 5 jumps I have on each...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[mccordia 73]

The last few jumps I've been sort of 'stuck' at around 70/65mph or so (Skyflyer, weigh about 85 Kg without my rig)
But I still look like a flying plank, there's probably more speed to be won/lost in de-arching more at the hips.....

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[TALONSKY 0]

When I started flying birdman I weighed 220 LBS @ 6 foot 3 inches tall. Our exit alititude is 13000 AGL. When I started flying wingsuit I had just over 430 jumps.

GTI 1-6 jumps 90-80 MPH
GTI 6-20 jumps 80-70 MPH
GTI 20-30 jumps 70-60 MPH

Skyflyer3 1-10 jumps 60 MPH
Skyflyer3 20-40 jumps 55 – 50 MPH @ 220Lbs I only had 2 flight that went over 2 minutes I had one jump that I registered under 40MPH for just a second or two.
Lost weight 190LBS
Skyflyer3 40-50 55-45 MPh
Skyflyer3 50-60 Jumps 55-45 MPH. I now have over 2 minute freefall on all jumps and last jump flying a little conservatively at first (flocking) I got 2 minute 20 seconds.
Kirk

[VectorBoy 0]

If you are in the ballpark you should be happy. Its really hard to quantify precisely unless your gauge is a cliff backdrop for glide and crossing the valley your measure of distance.

I've posted before you can take up to ten computer audibles up and no two will give "matching numbers", five will be within ten percent, three will give totally erroneous readings and two will shut down and not register the jump. I regularly fly with three and am happy when two of them are within 15%. They are just not precise enough for the numbers you want. They are good for altitude alarms and not a whole lot more.
But high performance two ways with a good pilot are a better benchmark of actual achievements.

Anything above a 2 or 3 way and there is some "dirty" flying going on to make sure everyone can get in tight. If its a really big way the numbers may be no better than what you get on a tracking jump ( although distance covered will be a lot greater ).

To answer your question I am 5'9" #170 with
About 40 classic two jumps ( none in the last year )roughly 150 S3 jumps and about 30 matter 2 jumps. I spent a lot of solo jumps on the classic but now rarely do solos and mostly bigger than two ways. Chasing students tend to drop faster too as does flocking with a low performing base pilot.

Less than 20% of my jumps was I trying to get good numbers but instead mostly flocking relative and safely or aerobatics ( on solos or smaller ways). On the classic it took my about 20 jumps to get into the low 50's. This took less than 10 jumps to do on the S-3 and about 20 jumps to do on the Matter 2. It took more jumps to do on the matter it does fly different than the bird-man suits that I'm used to and I do less "number getting" jumps now and more flocking than before.

When I say the low fifties I'm saying a "full time" steady state glide not a one time on a jump micro second event. Back when I goofed around with profiling software I registered spikes of the mid to high thirtys and regular dips into the mid forties.

I can get "numbers" in the high 40s on both my matter2 and my S-3 pretty easy. But unless the numbers are close ( within 5%) on multiple audibles for both halves of the jump I won't call it sustainable and maintainable.

Regardless the matter2 and S-3 will give me more forward drive than the classic for a given fall rate.

Along with getting good fall rate numbers there should be some importance on being able to slide forward and back but on level with and up and below but on line with a steady, stable base formation. And probably more importance on flying that steady stable base.

I know of jumpers that are getting real numbers in the forties and can prove it. I know of jumpers that report numbers that are erroneous and its obvious when the come to flock. So beware of "number envy" by posts on this forum, your mileage may vary

Sorry for the long reply hope this helps

[gus 1]

I'm about 6 ft and 170 lbs kitted up. After 80 or so ws jumps on my GTi I can just about nudge my averages under 50 mph. It took a fair few jumps (40 odd) before I could get it under 60.

I borrowed an S3 a few weeks back, flew it horribly and came down with a 49 mph average! Mine's due August 11th
Bear in mind that at the leading edge of our fledgling dicipline people like Robi and Yuri are NOT obsessed with fallrates but with glide - although that's a much more difficult thing to measure and compare.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[TALONSKY 0]

As far as fall rate, I think you are right about the audible computers. Also it is hard to find clean air to get an accurate reading. I actually lost my Pro Track on a jumps a while back. Now I use my video camera to time my freefall.
Oh, I forgot to add to my original post my weights 220lbs and 190lbs are without gear so add 20lbs for gear.
Kirk

[pbla4024 0]

For me it took about 20-25 jumps to got below 50 mph with Classic 2 (average Pro-Track TAS). I'm 171 cm 65 kg (without rig). Friend with maybe 10 WS jumps made 52 mph (TAS for second half of jump). S-fly designer told me his minimum is 53 kmh = 33 mph.

Fido

[ManBird 0]

Quote

there's probably more speed to be won/lost in de-arching more at the hips.

This is a misconception a lot of people have. You DO want to stick your butt up a bit, but that's just to keep your pelvis from disrupting your "airfoil". You want a slight d-arch at the center of your arms wings -- generally your sternum. It's more like caving in your chest than a d-arch. This is assuming you aren't pregnant or have a giant belly.

To find your "apex", point to the center of each arm wing and draw a line between the two. The center of that line should be the highest point of your body. Then you have four points that need to be the lowest: shoulders and toes. The rest of your body should be in between.

The shoulder and arm position is critical, and hard to describe -- I'll do my best. Imagine that you standing straight up in a hallway. Stick your arms out directly to your sides so that the back of your hands touches the walls, fingertips pointed at the floor. Now imagine that your hands are nailed to the wall in this position. Push your shoulders forward without moving any other part of your body. Your hands are still directly to your sides, but your shoulders are in front of your body.

Look at a low wing aircraft and look at the shape of the wings. Your shoulders are where the wing attaches -- at the bottom of the fuselage. The wingtips are at about the middle of the height of the fuselage.

And then legs are easy -- knees locked, legs as straight and wide as possible (you should feel tension from fabric on the sides of your calves), toes pointed. I generally push my heels out to the sides to ensure symmetry. It doesn't exactly boost performance -- it's what I do to fly stable when my legs are locked.

This is a performance body position. Backing up Glen, the more people on the dive, you further you'll want to stray from this type of flying, as it can go unstable fast.

Backing up Glen again in saying that there's a lot more to this stuff than chasing numbers. A wingsuit pilot's skillset should include the ability to fly relative at just about any fall rate, as well as get long distances and delays. Tricks are fun, too.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[skydiver41 0]

I'm 5'10" 220 lbs (245 in gear, just call me human anvil)

Scott Cowan is my co-pilot...N203E

[ManBird 0]

Quote

I'm 5'10" 220 lbs (245 in gear, just call me human anvil)

With the exception of those with 11lbs on their heads (like Deuce), my theory is that you don't make the same channel of air as you do without a camera. When you go "head high" to keep everything in a landscape orientation, there's a tendency to stick your chest out. I've noticed this in my own flight with a camera.

A trick I stole from Mr. David Haygarth is to film with your head sideways. My fall rate is up in the high 50s or low 60s if I'm looking up to film. Looking sideways or down, I don't measureably gain fall rate. Kirk (TALONSKY) has been getting a really good fall rate and glide with a camera on, as well.

In summary, don't look up or straight ahead. If you want to film something above you, work on backflying. Your fall rate will be about the same as looking up, only you'll get a much better shot.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click

[TALONSKY 0]

I have a Sidewinder 2 helmet with a PC105 in it and have not noticed any differance in my fall rate. I have at times I been paying more attention to the camera shot than my body position.
Kirk

[VectorBoy 0]

Yours is about as aerodynamic as a camera helmet can be. An FTP or a helmet with a side box and top mount still won't be so smooth to the flow

[kallend 1,682]

I've only made 6 jumps, all on a Classic II. The first three were around 60 - 65mph, the last three were all under 55mph. 5'11", 190 pounds out the door.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ManBird 0]

Quote

Yours is about as aerodynamic as a camera helmet can be. An FTP or a helmet with a side box and top mount still won't be so smooth to the flow

I jump 2K's FF2. It's a side mount, but it's pretty slick. IMO, I think it is less the camera itself and more the way your body reacts/gets positioned when filming.

"¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯"

Click