One difference in design between Sfly & Birdman

[TALONSKY 0]

Reading the article the December’s issue of Parachutist about the invasion of the Skyflyers I noticed something when looking at the pictures of the S-fly and comparing them to birdman suits(GTI, Skyflier…etc). The S-fly’s wings just look like a very stretched piece of fabric, but when you look at any birdman made suit the wings resemble more of the shape of a RAM air parachute( meaning that they are inflated and holding a contoured shape). I would assume this is one of the reasons why birdman suits seem to perform better (at least by all the reviews I have read anyway).
Kirk

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I thought either you or Steve had ordered an S-fly just for shits and grins.

[kevin922 0]

I don't know if you checked flybirdman out, but there is some good info and pictures of the S-Fly. The S-Fly's wings do inflate, the profile is different from birdman suits. Also there is comparisons between the crossbow, s-fly, and matter. The short story is the crossbow and the MTR-1 are almost identical, with the exception of some fabric that covers every other cell on the leading edge of the wing of the MTR (which supposadly gives the matter less wing pressure?) they are basically the exact same.

The S-FLy is a "2 year upgrade" of the crossbow, you will notice the design appears to be the exact same. Loic basiclly improved construction so that the tears that ou will see after little use in the crossbow and mtr1 don't occur. No big profile changes or anything.

[TALONSKY 0]

Steve was going to order one until he ran into a wire transfer issue with the company and then I think he is now pondering the idea of getting a Crossfire 2(after putting some jumps on mine) instead of the S-fly.
Kirk

[crawford 0]

Is it just me, or does everyone pretty much agree that the Birdman versions of the wingsuit is by far, much superior? I am very curious to hear from someone that has flown both and get a real good comparison discussion going. To look at all the suits out there, it just seems that Birdman has put a lot more thought into the whole process, but then again, I may be impartial! Thoughts?

"Sure, those Golf Carts may look all warm and fuzzy, but they WILL take a chunk out of your ass!"

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Scott Campos has jumped both and has written a review of the Matter and his comparison to BirdMan products. It's here in the wingsuit forum, so just do a search.

[LouDiamond 1]

That review can be found HERE

Having talked to both Cedric(Matter) and Loic (fly your body) and having seen some of the changes in the S-fly from the previous versions I think they have addressed some of the durability and comfort issues. It remains to be seen if the performance of the suit(s) has been substantially improved over it's predecessors. For the most part, the profile of both of the suits remains fundamentally the same as does the method of flight. If any improvements are to be seen I think it would be due to material changes and or better regulation of airflow into the suit since the whole suit is basically the wing. If however there has been a substantial change in design, like the evolution of the classic I to the current SF, then I could see a possibility of there being marked performance improvements.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[kevin922 0]

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Is it just me, or does everyone pretty much agree that the Birdman versions of the wingsuit is by far, much superior? I am very curious to hear from someone that has flown both and get a real good comparison discussion going. To look at all the suits out there, it just seems that Birdman has put a lot more thought into the whole process, but then again, I may be impartial! Thoughts?

I have a matter in the mail to me, and have been informed Matter is doing a "lot" of design changes to their suit and should have a prototype or early production suit early next year of that. Cedric didn't get into details as to what changes they were making.

I haven't laid eyes on the other suits in person, but from all the research i've done it appears that yes birdman seems to be the superior product. Both from a quality of construction to performance range. I have met and talked with Robert and Jari and have talked on the phone with Loic and Cedric. Robert has really done some ingeious things with the birdman wingsuits, one example is the rear air deflector - it is an awesome design... but this is not to say that a s-fly or a matter isn't a good suit,

I think the performance range is totally different.
How does a wingsuit "perform"? Is it forward speed? is it vertical speed? is it the fact it doesn't kill you? Remember the swooping down the mountain video? That wasn't a birdman suit doing that - it was basically an s-fly. Does that mean anything other than the fact Loic is a badass with big balls? I'm sure the same feat could be done with a birdman suit - i can't say i'd be the first to try it though, I don't like cold weather :-).


Some of the same design flaws with the crossbow are said to exist in the matter. (crossbow does NOT equal sfly). One of these is quite scary, the ability for the cutaway and reserve handles to go inside the suit.

I will try and update and have the most detailed information about ALL the suits on flybirdman.com as I can get my hands on the stuff as well as fly 'em.

Kevin

[dragon2 0]

I have only one jump om a Matter, but I found the Matter much easier (more intuitive?) to fly then the Classic. And I didn't have any problems with the Classic either, it's just that the Matter seems to take less effort to fly, don't know exactly why.

Getting the suit around my rig took me forever tho....

We dubbed the Matter suit 'Komo' (which is a well-known brand of garbage bags ) because of the fabric. I kinda like the look, just wonder how long it'll last from the reviews here...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[LouDiamond 1]

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Some of the same design flaws with the crossbow are said to exist in the matter. (crossbow does NOT equal sfly). One of these is quite scary, the ability for the cutaway and reserve handles to go inside the suit.

That is not entirely true. If improperly assembled there is a possibility however, done correctly it is not an issue as the system is redundant in keeping the handles in place with both velcro and metal snaps , which can be seen HERE and once properly assembled it looks like THIS

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[kevin922 0]

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Some of the same design flaws with the crossbow are said to exist in the matter. (crossbow does NOT equal sfly). One of these is quite scary, the ability for the cutaway and reserve handles to go inside the suit.

That is not entirely true. If improperly assembled there is a possibility however, done correctly it is not an issue as the system is redundant in keeping the handles in place with both velcro and metal snaps , which can be seen HERE and once properly assembled it looks like THIS

Cool! glad to know that issue has been resolved.

[mccordia 73]

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We dubbed the Matter suit 'Komo' (which is a well-known brand of garbage bags ) because of the fabric.

So that comment kinda stuck huh :)

I do think that (just from a fashion point of view) the suits from birdman look better.
That matter suit (on the ground) to me, looks like a big shape-less shoppingbag that's loosely draped around your body on the ground. Where as a birdmansuit is much tighter/form fitting.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[kevin922 0]

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We dubbed the Matter suit 'Komo' (which is a well-known brand of garbage bags ) because of the fabric.

So that comment kinda stuck huh :)

I do think that (just from a fashion point of view) the suits from birdman look better.
That matter suit (on the ground) to me, looks like a big shape-less shoppingbag that's loosely draped around your body on the ground. Where as a birdmansuit is much tighter/form fitting.

well that is the difference between a suit that is made for you and one that isn't :)

[dragon2 0]

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That matter suit (on the ground) to me, looks like a big shape-less shoppingbag that's loosely draped around your body on the ground.

well that is the difference between a suit that is made for you and one that isn't :)

Thanx alot Jarno

Well both suits weren't made for me, the one that is is still underway, it's been over 3 months now But I guarantee you it won't be looking anything like a shopping bag whatsoever

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dragon2 0]

We flew a 3 way today, me in a Matter (too big suit for me), a guy in a custom GTi and a BMI in a custom S3. And it actually worked start flying better -> WOW I'm going way up high -> less dearching, wings slightly collapsed -> aargh now I'm level but falling behind again -> repeat. I got it eventually tho, not really smooth but we could stay together okay. Fun!!!

I haven't hooked up my pro-track to a computer yet, but my new Neptune gives a list of a couple altitudes and speeds for each logged jump, and it read 42 mph at 9k for my first solo jump today, 2nd jump on the Matter suit I ever did. If that's true, it's the slowest I've ever fallen. So the suit performs just fine, fallrate-wise, but not forwardspeed-wise I think, compared to BM.

ciel bleu,
Saskia