sit position to correct

[coca 0]

hi,

I'm new in sit flying as you can see in the picture.

can you give me some advices to redress for my next jumps?

thx

coca

[McDuck 0]

Are you able to hold your sit for the entire dive, or are you corking to your back/stomach frequently? I know that picture is a rather brief moment in the entire dive, but it looks as if you're doing what most beginning freeflyers do to get stable, which is leaning forward over your knees with your arms way back behind you to try and compensate for the backsliding that is caused by leaning forward like that. While there are certainly more experienced freeflyers here who will be able to better guide and correct you, you may want to practice proper body position, focusing on your upper body, while sitting in a chair. There's some good material towards the end of this thread (clicky) that might help build some muscle memory in your legs as well as help with your upper body postioning.

Edited to add: Beautiful picture, by the way.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[coca 0]

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Are you able to hold your sit for the entire dive, or are you corking to your back/stomach frequently?

Beautiful picture, by the way.

thank you.

I keep the same weird position all over the jump, it seems stable, but is not nice and is hard tou move forward from there. it's not the first time someone tells me that I should be more vertical, arms not behind, separate legs, and so on, but even if I think about it the position remains...

in this particular jump I was turning around the cameraman...

[skymama 35]

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I keep the same weird position all over the jump, it seems stable, but is not nice and is hard tou move forward from there.

That's because it's hard to move forward when you're positioning yourself to go backwards.

You definitely need to get your torso more vertical. Try sitting in a chair with your rig on and then get that 90 degree angle going. I don't think people realize that they are bending over a little to compensate for the weight of the rig on their backs. At least, I didn't when I first started. Also practice holding your arms out to your sides so you can see your fingertips in your peripheral vision instead of having them so far behind you.

If you want to see how much you are really moving around, try jumping with someone who has a really good and stable sit. Ask them to just sit there so you can come to them instead of them coming to you. If you're in that position that you posted, I think you'll probably see that you're backsliding pretty good. Don't worry though, I think everyone does that to some extent when they're first learning. Practice, practice, practice.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Peej 0]

Great advice from the Duck and the Mama so far, one thing to remember though, we call it "sit" flying and we tell people to practice the position by sitting in a chair. The tendency though is for them to then get in the sky and want to sit on the air, which leads to ass flying.

One thing i tell all my students, and this was taught to me by Eli Thompson, is that your points of balance when sit flying are under your arms and under your heels. So when you get out of the plane you really want to drive your heels down into the relative wind and have your hands in your peripheral vision. You also want to really focus on getting those nice 90 degree angles going. ie, arms in relation to your sides, between your legs, your legs in relation to your torso, etc.

If you send me an email address via pm i can send you all of the literature i've found on the net.

Cheers

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[dharma1976 0]

chest back

neck straight

legs wider

feet straight

relax

arms forward more

relax

smile

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[ccowden 0]

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your points of balance when sit flying are under your arms and under your heels. So when you get out of the plane you really want to drive your heels down into the relative wind and have your hands in your peripheral vision.

Bingo! It is head up flying, not sit flying. Your stability needs to come from your lower body with movement control assisted by the upper body. In this picture, you are flying from center mass by leaning over your hips and then catching yourself with your arms. You need to straighten that body out more, sit up tall, chin up, push down with those heels in a nice wide, stable stance, and find your stability from your lower body so that your arms can come forward in a more relaxed helpful position. A good head up position should "basically" mirror a head down position, being slightly more bent at the waist and knees, and look alot less like "sitting in a chair."

[McDuck 0]

Thanks for the clarification, Chris. That helped me too.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[ccowden 0]

Just trying to add a bit more to the other posts. All good info so far, I just think it is better to get that "sit flying" out of our heads and think more in terms of "head up flying." If you are sitting on the air, you are not flying well with your lower body, so the rest of your body will have to compensate, making it difficult to control sliding and fallrate. Flying a good tall position with a nice stable and wide stance will allow your upper body to more easily move and control your forward and backward movement, fallrate and docking.

Flying head up really well, is much harder than flying head down. The people who can fly really well on their feet are the people who impress me. I am pretty mediocre at it and continue to learn on every jump. We all need to never stop learning and thinking that as soon as you can "sit" stable, it is time to move to head down. Heck, I was watching some jumps with Jimmy T the other night and he was critiquing his form. The boy has 16,000 plus jumps and is still trying to get better at flying and learn. Damn if that doesn't put it into perspective!

[Peej 0]

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I just think it is better to get that "sit flying" out of our heads and think more in terms of "head up flying."

That's good sh1t, thanks Chris! I will definately be telling junior freefliers to think that way in the future.

To the original poster, just to add to what we've all said, a little trick that i tell newby fliers is to focus on putting your heels together before you drive them down into the air. Just a quick tap. That way you're focusing on driving them down on level with each other.

Another little tip is that if you put your arms out to either side and find that you're suddenly cork screwing, take a deep breath, that will bring your shoulders onto the same level.

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[McDuck 0]

Yeah, I agree with Peej. That not only helps me get MY mind on the right track as far as my own freeflying progression, but it helps me be better able to give the right advice and assistance to new freeflyers.

I've been reviewing the jumps we made at the Dublin boogie, almost daily, and I've been picking up new tips and ideas almost every time I watch how you flew your body during those jumps.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[mattjw916 2]

Everyone already put a lot of good info here but I'll throw in my 2 cents:

Starting at the top: Chin up, back straight... don't reach behind you with your hands. Think about pushing back with your elbows keeping your arms slightly bent pinching your shoulder blades together and thrusting your chest forward. Upper legs perpendicalar to torso and knees wide for stability. Lower legs perpendicular to upper legs pushing down with your heels.

I never call it "sitflying" either. Esp since I can fly daffy headup and I'm not usually "sitting" at all.

Have fun!

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[coca 0]

great advises !

next jump I won't forget the breathing, watching my hands, don't think on sitting but more like a head up straddle, 90 degrees (or more) everywhere, symmetry while pushing on heels... for the moment I handle pretty well the smiling part !

[bradp 0]

Symmetry around all axis is what its all about. However, you do get right symmetry, and wrong symmetry.

Much of what Im going to say is a repeat of what has already been said. And possibly some more to ponder.

1. Your upper body

You are leaning forward too much. Your torso needs to be more upright and inline with your ass, and you need to have your chest proudly presented and not slouched forward as you will have a slight backslide with a slouched upperbody.

2. Your legs

Your legs should be a bit wider. Try flying with a 90 degree angle between your legs. This will change your symmetry so that you do not need to have your arms so far back to keep balanced.

Also your left leg is pushed down further than your right leg. Make sure your feet are level and the bend angle at your knees is equal on both legs. This will stop any unintentional side sliding.

Also, always make sure that your shins are always perpendicular to the ground, even when adjusting speeds. When your shins are perpendicular to the ground there is less drag on the lower halves of your legs trying to push them up. Also, if you had to fly with your shins tucked under your thighs that could also cause a slight backslide with the wind deflecting off your shins.

3. Your arms

Your arms are way too far back. Ideally you want your arms next to you, or only a slight bit behind you. Try flying with a slight bend in your arms, and roll your shoulders back a tiny bit so that your elbows are pointing downwards. This gives you a wider range of motion with your arms in order to make it easier to take hand docks.


But the best advice I can give you is to continue getting video footage or stills of your skydives and keep on analysing them, as often as possible. And going out there and making a concious effort to correct all the mistakes you are making. Otherwise you end up ingraining these mistakes and bad habits into your muscle memory, which will be a lot more difficult to change later.

Keep it up! You are doing styling up there!

Cheers,
Brad

[Brumby 0]

I was in a simialr situation as you. wasnt sure where my legs, head, back, arms etc etc were meant to be. I done quite a few solo jumps and picked up alot of bad habbits like back sliding, arms too far back etc so i got some coaching from Louis Harwood from Avalore Freefly. (best thing i ever done)

My advice would be to get some coaching also as they can give you in air corrections and you soon get used to the feel of where each part of your body is meant to be

[JGarcia 0]

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A good head up position should "basically" mirror a head down position, being slightly more bent at the waist and knees, and look alot less like "sitting in a chair." --Chris Cowden

I found a couple video frame grabs taken last weekend of yours truly that more or less show what Chris talking about, so you can have a visual reference. Notice that with good body position, you don't need your arms to your side/back to keep stable/head-up.

In the shot that I'm pointing to my head, I was trying to tell they guy with the video to put his head back a bit more, and in the other to put his chest back/straight (because he was leaning forward) and stick it out a bit...tricks I learned in the wind tunnel with Martin Skrzypczak.

Hope it helps, and good luck...

Cheers!

--Jairo

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!

[ccowden 0]

Those are perfect for illustrating my point. Thank you.

You can see very clearly in your shots that there is a big difference between "sit flying" and "head up flying." With a good solid head up position, as in these pictures, your arms are free to do other things and your stability and movement comes from your lower body, just as it does in head down.

Thanks Jairo!

[McDuck 0]

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Those are perfect for illustrating my point. Thank you.

You can see very clearly in your shots that there is a big difference between "sit flying" and "head up flying." With a good solid head up position, as in these pictures, your arms are free to do other things and your stability and movement comes from your lower body, just as it does in head down.

Thanks Jairo!

Quick question for my own personal edification: even with a good, solid head-up position, does there still need to be equal and opposite compensation for a dock with your hand?

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[Amanduh 0]

I can't see the ground in those pics...damn industrial haze.

[ccowden 0]

It's like everything else you learn in skydiving freefall. The better you get at flying your body in a certain orientation, the more you will be able to do without so much effort. Yes, sit docks require compensation with the other half of your upper body, especially when learning. After you get better, you will be able to compensate with your whole body, requiring less drastic compensation from a single part. Think of it this way; when you first learn to pull, you are taught to place your non-pull hand ontop of your head to compensate because if you don't it would flip you over or cause a bad turn. But once you have some good skill, you can leave your other hand right where it is and still pull with no real effect to your stability or heading. That is because you learn to fly your whole body and compensate using everything, not just your other hand. It becomes second nature.

It is about flying your body, whether it be head up or head down, and when you move your arms, the rest of your body needs to compensate for that. I usually still compensate by putting the opposite arm behind me, but it really depends maneuver I am doing. When flying a really nice solid lower body, you will be surprised what you can do with your arms. But it takes alot of practice and the place to start is opposing movements with the arms and not turning your heading. You need to stay square to your heading.

[McDuck 0]

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It is about flying your body, whether it be head up or head down, and when you move your arms, the rest of your body needs to compensate for that. I usually still compensate by putting the opposite arm behind me, but it really depends maneuver I am doing. When flying a really nice solid lower body, you will be surprised what you can do with your arms. But it takes alot of practice and the place to start is opposing movements with the arms and not turning your heading. You need to stay square to your heading.

Yeah, I've noticed that I have a tendency to carve when I square up for a dock. That's something I need to rectify before I proceed further. Thanks for the tips, Chris. Spot-on as always.

Kevin - Sonic Beef #5 - OrFun #28
"I never take myself too seriously, 'cuz everybody know fat birds don't fly." - FLC
Online communities: proof that people never mature much past high school.

[fruitmedley 0]

Hey! I'm still new to the discipline, and I'm still learning as well, so my advice is in no way expert. But I have had some amazing freeflyers give me awesome coaching so I'll do my best to pass it on: that was my exact body position when I started to learn how to sitfly. It was natural to draw my knees up to adapt to the new and seemingly unnatural position of butt-to-earth, which in turn caused me to lean forward and push my arms back. Consciously pushing your feet flat and downward is the first step...if you do that, your upper body position will be easier to rectify. If you push your legs down without leaning back you'll keep corking out into a back flip...that'll stop when you keep a strong upper body. When your position is correct you will feel the wind on the back of your thighs, the bottom of your feet, and under your arms. When it clicked for me I felt like I was sitting in one of those old, really square wooden chairs. Do you spin alot? That was a problem for me as well...try toe taps, much like the ones you did as a student on your belly...and look at your knees in your peripheral vision, they should be the same height...that helped me alot, too. I hope it helps a little...post us pics of your progress! Have alot of fun! -fruit

JUMP NUMBERS DON'T MEAN S!#T!!!!!!

[coca 0]

your advises do work ! I still have a lot to do but it really feels different to be more vertical...

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=guestpass&id=s6pj9 (one minute video of coca sitflying)

thank you! next step, to move forward (backward is so easy !)

[Peej 0]

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thank you! next step, to move forward (backward is so easy !)

Point your pee pee where you wanna go

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[JFK 0]

Hey Coca, seems it's getting better :)

One mistake when I started head up flying is that I was not dynamic enough with my legs, meaning that I was focusing too much on my arms because it's natural and my legs were going everywhere.
One way to get the good feeling about the dynamic of the legs/heels would be to try standing with your arms straight to the sky, like you would let yourself fall vertical at the swimming pool :)
When you get a stable position in the airflow like this you should be able to slow yourself down by starting spreading your legs, and don't use your arms for that.

@+,
Jul.

JFK #1013
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