Need advice on video and camera gear

[NexGenSkydiver 0]

I am going to build a camera helmet, top mount, and i am curious about what video and still camera you all would recommend i get. I know very little about still camera, but know I wanna get a HD video camera. Thanx for all the help.

[dragon2 0]

Look around the forums a bit, basically it's a Sony HC5 or Sony CX6/7 for a HDV topmount and a Nikon D80/D70S or one of the Canon digi rebels for stills.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Icon134 0]

Better yet speak to a local videographer (either during down time on a cloudy day or at the end of the day over a beer)... I know that I'm happy to speak with new jumpers about camera gear the options, what has worked for me and what hasn't...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[rwieder 0]

This brings up a point i've been wanting to discuss for a while. While i have three camera helmets, and a number of camera suits, all different in equipment/lenses/ etc...There are no courses offered to teach/instruct vidiots. You basically learn by trail & error and hope not to injure yourself or anyone else while your at it. It seems to be one of the aspects of our sport that is being overlooked. Why? I don't know. IMO it's because we're so focused on Canopy Piloting Skills, or the lack thereof. I see A licensence holders get their license and immediately strap a camera on the side of their helmut without any formal training. It's often dealt with by turning a blind eye towards the practice.

I would ask someone to step forward and offer some seminars, camps at the DZ or what ever to teach about the different types of equipment, suits, a beginning point and an ending point in videography, or what i refer to as skytography.

Any thoughts?

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[The111 0]

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I would ask someone to step forward and offer some seminars, camps at the DZ or what ever to teach

I've seen this happen at a few DZ's in Florida. If you are one of the most experienced camera flyers at your DZ, offer one up. If you're not, then urge whoever is one of the most experienced guys/gals to do it.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[PhreeZone 15]

Norman Kent is offering a camera camp this summer I think at Summerfest and Tony Hathaway offers camps at Z-hills from time to time.

Camera flying is a black art, most of what you need to know you actually learn away from the sport. Exposure, lighting, angles are all things that you learn on the ground and usually only with a lot of practice. The real trick is to take all of the things that you learn on the ground and apply it in the air and still be able to fly your body to get the shots needed.

The issue is there are more "flight recorders" out there then there are "camera flyers". Being a flight recorder is easy being a camera flyer is a lot harder.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[rwieder 0]

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Norman Kent is offering a camera camp this summer I think at Summerfest and Tony Hathaway offers camps at Z-hills from time to time

Not in the gulf coast area of Texas he's not.

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Camera flying is a black art, most of what you need to know you actually learn away from the sport. Exposure, lighting, angles are all things that you learn on the ground and usually only with a lot of practice

Agreed. I have been a Shutter Bug all of my life. The equipment i've got figured out.

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The real trick is to take all of the things that you learn on the ground and apply it in the air and still be able to fly your body to get the shots needed.

Therein lies my concern. Everybody wants to be the best that they can, but instruction is vital to the safety aspect.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[sinjin 0]

i took one of tony hathaways weekend classes,, i highly recommend it for anyone... he teaches to the level you are at and has great experience and knowledge,, if i could make to chicago this summer i would !!

dont let life pass you by

[DSE 3]

Norman Kent, Mike McGowan, Joe Jennings, and a few others all teach/offer classes on this subject. Norman has a video we produced on the subject.
There is a class at Summerfest, and of course, see your local video pro.
I guess my point is that there are a lot of resources out there; it seems folks don't avail themselves for some reason.
As a newbie camera flyer, I went to Perris starting at jump 30, to begin preparing for flying a camera (missed out on a lot of fun jumps shooting for one discipline, but...got some great instruction on the ground, in the air, and in the tunnel. I felt I at least had figured out that I no longer didn't know what I didn't know, I just needed to learn about that which I didn't know. Now that I have more experience, I'm realizing how much more I don't know that I don't yet know. If you can follow that logic, you've started drinking early in the day.
The resources are there at all levels regardless of budget, skill, and geo location, IMO. Just keep your head on a swivel to notice and recognize them.

[NexGenSkydiver 0]

If you arent going to give me advice on camera gera please post somewhere else....this was about what camera gear people would refer a friend to not camera class bullcrap.....who the one person who actual did that, thanx

[PhreeZone 15]

We can't give recommendations until you list your prerequisites. If you don't have a list of these then we can't help you.

For video:
Tape or Tapeless? If Tapeless what video editing program?
Size filter threads?
Needed transitions?

For Stills:
Brand?
Frame rate needed?


If you don't even know the answers to these simple "bullcrap" questions the best we can point you to is someone locally that you can sit down with and discuss every one of these questions in details and learn from them to help make your own decisions.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[stratostar 5]

NexGenSkydiver

The bold part says a lot about your "bullcrap" attitude, the advice you seek is covered in great detail within these threads on this photography and video fourm, had you taken the time to...

1. Read the sticky on the top of the page
2. learned to use the search function
3. Asked a few of the locals, first before posting
4. Read any of posts on the first page
5. Signed up for one of the classes offerd as implied by a few poster & the moderator of this fourm, DSE.

Don't come to Christmas dinner and start throwing turds on the table if you expect to have the well virsed provide you with the info you seek to learn that we know or your going to get nothing but bull crap!

I might add that you buy Norm Kent's DVD on camera flying that was produced by DSE's company and you might also look into print media books on camera flying till you learn to how to be nice to those you seek answers from.

Have a good day!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[NexGenSkydiver 0]

Well I have been looking at the HD SONY video cameras, the 3 5 and 7. I know several people with the 3, but one says go with the 5 goes it is better, the other says the 3 is better because of the flutter, but cant tell or show me how bad the flutter is. I think the 7 would be nice to be able to go tapeless, plus less moving parts, which i think would be more reliable, but dont know how much quality is lost with compressing it to flash drive. I currently have pinnacle studio 11, would you reccomend another program? As far as stills go I know very little, but i have been told a rebel sti or xti i think it is......but like i said i know very little about stills, thats why I am in here asking trying to learn more

[DSE 3]

Your friends are talking about OIS vs EIS, and the CX7 is EIS. The HC series are all OIS excepting the HC5. You need to prefix the model number, because there is a CX7(MSPD card) and there is the HC7 (HDV/tape).

As far as a still camera, the Rebel series are more or less the standard for skydiving photography with tandems and fun jumps. Some folks jump Nikons and Pentax, but I'd venture a dare that Canon is far more common. mouth switches are easier to find, too.
TApeless uses AVDHD, tape uses MPEG.
The HD Primer thread might help you understand the differences a bit. It's a good place to start, anyway.

[PhreeZone 15]

Here is some advice on stills. Buy a camera (any camera) and then shoot 2-3000 frames on the ground away from the DZ. Not just of the dog and the family but of things like flowers, still life, sports, the sky, etc. Learn the camera, learn how to adjust the settings to get what you want and then apply that to freefall. Please don't just put it on automatic and walk away, thats like buying a $2000 computer to play Freecell on. Read books on photography, you'll learn more by reading a few boks then you will in 500 pictures and you will learn an incredible amount in 500 pictures if you are really looking at them after you take them.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[DSE 3]

Can't find the thread at the moment, but there is some posted footage linked here, of OIS vs EIS between a Canon and Sony cam.
You can turn off stabilization if you're freeflying, and it's not too bad, if you're a solid freeflyer (I'm not). For belly flying, OIS isn't really an issue, particularly for tandems (again, if you'r a solid flyer on your belly, I feel I am).

Regarding stills, Phree gave you some very good advice. Putting on a camera and putting everything to auto might get some pix here and there, but it's more about luck than skill. The Rebel is the place to start, IMO. And it may be a place to "finish." Matt Hoover shoots amazing images with his Rebel, good enough to be printed on textbooks and such.
Back to the camcorder....research a lot, if money is tight and you absolutely can't afford a mistake. Plan the ENTIRE workflow. Don't make the common (and stupid) mistake of "I want this camera, now I gotta figure out what support tools I need for it."

[NexGenSkydiver 0]

Does anyone have any experience with the cx7? have they had any noticable difference with the video quality because it is compressed? How bad is the flutter on the video camera's, like how noticeable is it?

[DSE 3]

*ALL* of the camcorders in this discussion, and most camcorders on the market are highly compressed formats. Some more than others.
No, the "flutter" you're referring to comes from OIS, as mentioned several times. The CX7 can suffer from it. It's a combination of helmet type and flying style, plus OIS. I know quite a few freefly guys that have zero problem with the CX7 and there are a couple who have PM'd me saying they have issues.
How bad is it? Once you've discovered it's there, you may not be willing to accept it. I wouldn't.

[JGarcia 0]

I've done 2 of these seminars in the past year with great feedback and results. Maybe it's time for another one, seeing as NextGenSkydiver (Shane) jumps at my DZ.

Shane... your posts on these forums are coming accross quite abrasively. If you're coming to this (or any) forum with questions, be prepared for topics to wander off-topic and to take any and all advice you receive with a grain of salt. I applaud you for ask questions, but you cannot demand answers to these questions.

No matter what anyone recommends, it ultmately comes down to YOUR personal preference. Having the best, and the latest may not be the what's RIGHT for you. The only thing that will determine that is trial, error, and EXPERIENCE. A perfect example of this is Joe Jennings and Tony Hathawait. With their DECADES of experience and tens of thousands of jumps, what do you think they shoot when they're doing their tandem videos? I can tell you that both of them use Sony PC-100's. Not PC 1000's, or HC/HCX, etc.

Why? Do they not keep up with the times and see that there are better camera's out there? Are they LastGenSkydivers? No, I can assure you that's not the case. They have bigger and badder toys to play with, but for the application you'd be using it in, they choose reliability and work-horse durability, something that is yet to be determined with the newer cameras.

That being said... come into this with an open mind, knowing that the gear that you buy, will not necessarily be the gear that you stick with. Get advice from the local peeps at the DZ... from there... you can make an informed decision based on what you like or dislike about what people are saying and showing you. Utimately, what's best for me, or JoeShmoe DZ.commer, may not be what's best for you.

See u at the DZ!

--Jairo

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!