Cookie Composite HC5/7 Box is WAY too loose.

[TallGuy 0]

My HC5, Cookie Composite BlackBox, and Flatlock came in and I have a serious dilemma. The camera shakes around in the box like beans in a maraca.

I mounted the box to the Cookie Composite Flatlock per manufacturers instructions. This prevents me from further securing the camera with a camera screw. I had read in several places that this box was tight including on the Cookie Composites website: "You will notice that there is very little excess room in this enclosure but just enough to fit the Cameye2." So I was working with the assumption that the camera would be held in the box snugly enough that shaking wouldn't be an issue.

I'm wondering if I was sent the right box (It was labeled BlackBox for HC5/7). DSE had mentioned that he didn't think a larger battery then the one that came with the camera would fit in the box. This one seems to have an inch gap in the back. I'm almost certain it could fit the largest battery available (NP-FH100). Perhaps the design of the box has changed and now larger batteries are required? With the camera pushed forward by a larger battery the controls will be on the far edge of the holes that were cut for them.

Is anyone else encountering this issue? Did I forget to do something?

I'd contact Cookie Composites and inquire with them. but I've had no luck in the past. I've made a couple attempts to contact them using the contact us form on their website but I never got responses. (maybe my mail service is blocking them) So I figure I'll inquire with you their customers instead.

Also do any of you have tricks for securing the cameras tighter in their boxes?

And JP we're all very happy that you are pleased with your thumb screw...

[skydog 2]

I had Cookie fit my flat lock to the box and they have drilled a hole through the plate fro the camera screw.

When I get back to the DZ I will take a picture and post it.

With the screw in place it (obviously) holds it all tight.

Journey not destination.....

[jtval 0]

that pretty much eliminates the use of the box ,no?

Sure you keep it safer form the environment but the luxury of the box, IMO, is that I can have a quick release for the camera.

On a busy day, it would be frustrating if I had to unscrew my camera everytime before editing.
EDIT: I would be more apt to find a piece of fabric to hold the camera in place so I can cram it in when I need to jump. It would STILL be annoying though.

My photos

My Videos

[The111 0]

When I had a box that was too big for my HC90 I shimmed it with business cards and covered them in gaffer tape. I learned that trick on here. Not perfect, but can be a solution.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[TallGuy 0]

I'm kinda with you on that jtval.

I bought a box for 3 reasons. Physical damage protection, snag protection, and insulation from the elements. There is so much gap in this box that I don't see how it will provide much of the later. Currently I find myself in a position where I need to trade stability for ease of access. Also another frustrating thing about it fitting so loose is that the box will take up significantly more real estate on the top of a helmet that I'm trying to share with a digital SLR camera.

I'm very confused as to how EVERYONE billed this box as being VERY tight. I'll take a picture when I get a chance of how not tight it is. Right now I'm working with the assumption that Cookie Composite mislabeled the packaging and that my box is designed for a similar but larger camera.

Finally just because I seem to be in a mood to bitch. on their website CC says:
"The BlackBoxes come with all the fasteners required for mounting or order with the Liquid Flatlock and we will mount the quick release plate to your BlackBox at no extra charge." They don't make any references to a custom or modified release plate. I opted to buy my box and Flatlock from para-concepts.com and mount it myself so that I could avoid the hefty shipping charge and surprise custom/taxes bill from FedEx that you get after you receive your order when you order directly from CC. So I don't have the hole or screw that skydog mentions Perhaps CC should inform customers that if they want to use a BlackBox in conjunction with a Flatlock that they need to order directly from them to get the propper configuration.

[stratostar 5]

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I bought a box for 3 reasons. Physical damage protection, snag protection, and insulation from the elements.

In over 10 years of jumping cameras, I have NEVER had a video camera fail, do to any of the 3 things you posted and all of my cameras have been exposed, no box, no condom, nothing but a "granny strap" for helping to hold it tight and a quick release.

1. Physical damage protection- don't drop your helmet & duck your head on climbout! If you can't do that you shouldn't be flying camera in the first place.

2. snag protection- Fly stable and pull stable! Again if can't do that you shouldn't be flying camera. If it's going get ripped off your head let it go, no box is going to stop that anyway.

3.insulation from the elements- cold don't hurt shit and why are you jumping your cameras in the rain & snow? If your jumping in those conditons you deserve to get your camera fried.

Boxes are so over rated and a waste of money as well as unneeded extra weight. But don't spread that info around the people who build them love taking your guys money and are laughing all the way to the bank, IMHO.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[TallGuy 0]

1. I'm 6'9" in a tight plane. I'll do my best to not hit/rub the top of the plane ceiling and door but I KNOW at some point I'll screw up. Even top notch canopy pilots chow their landing once in a while.

2. So if I deploy perfectly every time snags are impossible? That's comforting. EVERYONE makes mistakes. Saying that you shouldn't fly camera unless you can always deploy perfectly is perhaps a bit extreme. I'm sure I do the grand majority of the time but I'm equally certain that there have been times when I did not and there will be a time when I will not again. It's that margin of error that I am planning for.

3. Moisture in the air and condensation is bad for cameras. There are plenty of people here who can tell you of when it has caused poor video or even damage to their cameras.

It's cool that you've had good luck with your configuration. I'm sure many can echo your sentiments. That said, there are others with different experiences who can tell you how they have benefited from using a box. I respect you sharing your experience and OPINIONS and I'd be happy to learn more from them. However, stating them as absolute FACT for all people in all configurations does little service to any of us.

[stratostar 5]

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I'm 6'9" in a tight plane

So kneel and duck at the same time. I'm not saying I haven't bashed a camera into the top of the door or roof before, but it only takes once or twice and you won't do that anymore.

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So if I deploy perfectly every time snags are impossible?

I didn't say it couldn't happen, just it is far less likely to happen if your not tumble'n. Most of the time any snags that hit your camera, can, one snap your neck, two remove your camera from helmet, or three remove your helmet for you, box or no box.

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3. Moisture in the air and condensation is bad for cameras.

So what are you using an underwater camera box? Those crappy little boxes are not going to stop the moisture or condensation from getting on or in your camera @ 120 unless you going to wrap it in plastic. And yes over the years I have gone thru some rain clouds (very wet), but the video kept rolling and only messed up later, once dried out it was fine, still working today.

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I'm sure many can echo your sentiments.

Yes and many of them are the best in the world.

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stating them as absolute FACT for all people in all configurations does little service to any of us.

Where did I say that?, If you want to waste money on a box and carry the added weight around and fool yourelf into thinking it will stop the 3 problems you said were the main factors as to why you got a box, that is on you. In the mean time I'll keep using my, 15 year old 8MM or 10 year old 525 or my 4 year old pc 100, cameras that have been in lot's of heat, cold air, ice, moisture, condensation, in all types of climates accross the country, without any cover at all and they all have hundreds of skydives each and they all still work fine and have for years.

I stand by my statement that d-boxes are way over rated and the guys making them are laughing all the way to the bank. The only reason I see to have one is the built in ones on some side mounts, (FF2 etc)

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[The111 0]

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So kneel and duck at the same time.

I LOL'ed.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[TallGuy 0]

I understand and appreciate your arguments for not using a box. They are not without merit. As with almost all gear choices there are pros and cons that we need to weigh, be it a AAD, RSL, hard or soft reserve handle, In this case I still perceive that the pros for ME to have a box outweigh the cons. It's easy to say, "just duck". I will make a very conscious effort to. But you aren't in my rather large shoes so you can't fully relate.

In my experience I have seen boxes save cameras. Without hard statistics I can only speculate on how one might reduce the risk of snags but it seems reasonable to think it a worthwhile precaution. I do intend to augment the box with insulation to protect it beyond the it's mere ability to "break wind".

I'm sure that many of the best in the world will agree with you. I suspect many of the best in the world might argue against as well. Norman Kent addresses some benefits/and downsides of using one in his new training video.

You never claimed your statements were absolute fact But they do seem to carry an absolute tone.

Hope your positive experiences without a box continue.

[The111 0]

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You never claimed your statements were absolute fact But they do seem to carry an absolute tone.

Stating opinions becomes much more time consuming if you must proceed each one with "it's my opinion that..."

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[SkydiveBase 0]

Hi TallGuy,

Attached is a photo of the plate you need. If you email or call us we can organise getting you the correct equipment. Apologies for the delay. We may have to surf here more often.

Jeremy Hunt

[jtval 0]

My MAIN reasons for a box are:

-Supposedly, they help eliminate tape flutter.I haven't jumped without a box so I don't know if my TRV-19 and -22 would be subjected to it.

-The TRV's are WIDE cameras that I top mount. I wanted to be sure they would stay on my head.

and

-Protecting the camera from the elements other jumpers who may possibly kick off my lens on exit. So far, I haven't been kicked in freefall but THAT is why I chose a box over an L bracket. My lens is NOT low profile. it's a $29 best buy lens that works awesome.

My photos

My Videos

[jtval 0]

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3.insulation from the elements- cold don't hurt shit

I disagree to some extent. Cold doesn't cause permenant damage but it does fuck up my camera on jumps where I go from cold to extreme cold. Though, cold seems to be less constant then heat at messing with my functionality.
My camera doesn't want to record anything after about 107 degrees.

MY GUESS, is that it's 107 degrees on the ground and about 70Degress at 10,000ft AGL. The cooler air makes the hot heads collect condensation and makes the tape record the "blue screen of death."
I jump in Vegas where condensation is more of a theory than a reality.

I try not to jump in such extremes, anymore. but I DO AGREE with what you said in your next post.

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Those crappy little boxes are not going to stop the moisture or condensation from getting on or in your camera @ 120 unless you going to wrap it in plastic. And yes over the years I have gone thru some rain clouds (very wet), but the video kept rolling and only messed up later, once dried out it was fine, still working today.

The Dbox did not prevent the element from reaching the camera. PERIOD!

My photos

My Videos

[stratostar 5]

Dude, don't get me wrong here, I know lot's of people who use them and lot's who don't. Your right to each there own, you got do to what works for you. So I hope you can get it to work out for you.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[stratostar 5]

The kind of cold I'm talking about is is like -20 @ 13.5, but now I'm smarter then to jump in the real cold of winter, that is a young mans game.

The worst thing about the cold I have seen is the batt. life is very low and it takes the camera a while to start to work. (slow)

I can see what you mean about going from very hot and (vagas) Altitude cold, in the desert I did notice how hot my cameras would get if left in the sun for even a small amout of time.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[DSE 3]

It's pretty obvious from the thread that like everything else, to each his own.
Bear in mind that different aircraft, different heights, environmental conditions, various helmets, camera types, and uses all call for the value of a box or not. I have a box on my side mount, because I'm concerned for riser slap. I don't have a box on my FTP.
Our environment is much like JT's; very warm on the ground (typically 100+ in the summer) and cool up top and practically zero humidity. I'm less concerned about those days than I am about my camera being in the warm car on the way to the DZ in the fall, and then hitting the near zero temps aloft (like today), and then coming down to the 50 degree temps.
I don't think there is a right or wrong, but given the variables...it's safe to say that generally, a camera kept in a box or condom is likely to last longer or at the least have less exposure to risk than an exposed camera may be.