rigging65 0 #1 May 30, 2003 QuoteBrings up a good question for riggers. If you know the owner is overloading the reserve, what is your responsibility? I was asked to post about this, and I think it's an interesting topic. Riggers: To what degree to you consider yourself responsible for the gear you repack for your customers? That is, if you know they guy is 250lbs, and is jumping a 109 reserve, do you feel obliged to say/do anything? Would you refuse to pack it? Other comments? I guess I'll lead off by saying that IMO my job as a rigger is to recertify equipment to the specification laid out by the Mfg. and the FAA. How that equipment is used after it leaves the loft is out of my control. It does beg an interesting moral question though.... I have been known to discuss gear choices with people I think are in over their heads, but I also manage a gear shop, so that kind of goes with the territory... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #2 May 30, 2003 If it was a Newbie jumper who was being mislead by someone else into thinking his gear was safe, I think I'd say something......but if the jumper is experienced and wants to risk getting hurt big time, I don't think you would be liable in any way to do the services he asks. If you didn't pack his reserve, he could always get another rigger to pack it. I think it's the jumpers responsibility after that. The DZ owner or safety officer should probably intervene with this jumper though.......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #3 May 30, 2003 Quote I guess I'll lead off by saying that IMO my job as a rigger is to recertify equipment to the specification laid out by the Mfg. and the FAA. How that equipment is used after it leaves the loft is out of my control. It's out of your control. There are times in a busy loft the rigger has no Idea who the owner of the equipment even is. You can state your mind about that person being over his head, however, you'll be wrong until proven right. Put it this way, .. it's not your problem my reserve is too small for me. I have to figure that out on my own. I know the weight limitations put on by the Manufacturer but I choose to ignore that. The FAA says 254 pounds so I'm way under as far as that's concerned. Now in reality I do over load my reserve more than I should, and would have a larger one but my rig won't fit it. I'm not in the position to replace my gear quite yet. It's not that fun too land in a tight area but if you become good at crashing, it's do-able. My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #4 May 30, 2003 Gonna play devils advocate here. Would you feel that it was your responsibility to judge someones abilty to fly the kit they want to buy though you? Bearing in mind they might know shit?Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #5 May 30, 2003 QuoteWould you feel that it was your responsibility to judge someones abilty to fly the kit they want to buy though you? Bearing in mind they might know shit? In the US, yes, it is my responsibility to judge someone's ability to fly what they think they want to buy - cuz if I sell them something small and/or aggressive and they fuck up guess who gets sued? After 6+ years of selling gear, with a few well chosen questions I can generally figure out if a person can handle whatever it is they're considering. I'll err on the side of conservative and refuse to sell it if I'm at all unsure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 776 #6 May 30, 2003 Out of curiosity, how often to you refuse somebody? Do they generally take advice from you and go bigger, or do they hang up in a huff?I got nuthin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #7 May 30, 2003 Quote In the US, yes, it is my responsibility to judge someone's ability to fly what they think they want to buy - cuz if I sell them something small and/or aggressive and they fuck up guess who gets sued? Ah, yes, but we're not talking about selling them gear, we're talking about repacking a certified canopy into a certified H&C system. Let's not confuse the issue here.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #8 May 30, 2003 QuoteLet's not confuse the issue here... Was replying to a question about buying/selling gear... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #9 May 30, 2003 [bowing appologetically] I see, you are totally correct... [/bowing] "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #10 May 30, 2003 QuoteBrings up a good question for riggers. If you know the owner is overloading the reserve, what is your responsibility? As I recall, the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) pertaining to parachute riggers doesn't enter into this nebulous area. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 May 31, 2003 I burned out on this question a decade ago after repacking too many low speed parachutes for pilots of high speed airplanes. They are big boys, They can take care of themselves. If they are smart enough to learn how to fly million-dollar Mustangs according to the numbers published in the pilot's handbook, they can read the numbers written on the parachute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #12 June 1, 2003 QuoteRiggers: To what degree to you consider yourself responsible for the gear you repack for your customers? That is, if you know they guy is 250lbs, and is jumping a 109 reserve, do you feel obliged to say/do anything? Would you refuse to pack it? Other comments? I would mention the fact to the jumper. I'm sure a lot of people are overloading their reserves without actually even knowing it. I still would pack the reserve and let the jumper decide for him/herself what to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #13 June 2, 2003 Most skydivers do not know what a slow speed canopy, a standard canopy, or CAT A-B-C limits are. The question that comes to mind is.... When I log the owners name and address and I know he's overloaded/overspeed, am I liable? If you burned out this question 10 years ago, were there any law suits you know of? And, most skydivers can't read the numbers, they never see them! Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
