Canon's new HDV camera

[MB38 0]

Forgive me if this has been posted before, but it caught my eye today and I figured I'd pass it on.

Canon just released their new HV10, a decent little HDV camera for about 1300 bucks. I haven't read much about it, but the form factor was what caught my eye. It's the first HDV camera I've seen that would look right at home on the side of somebody's head.

While I'm not a real HDV fan in general [pisser quality compared to the "real deal"], this seems like a neat little device. It's one of the first truly "consumer" HDV cameras I've seen.

They claim that it captures true 1080 resolution video. While I'm not too familiar with HDV [I try to shun it], I've been under the impression that it generally doesn't capture true 1920x1080 video... something closer to a 1440 pixel width if memory serves. I could be making all of this up, but it seems nifty if it's for real.

Anyhoo, that's about it. It's nice to see a vertical form-factor HDV camera come out.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[DSE 3]

It would be really easy to turn this into a "why do you hate HDV especially if you've not created a for-broadcast" thread, but I'll avoid that.the new Canon does have a 1920 x 1080 sensor, FWIW, I posted links yesterday, and they're calling it "true HD" although that is simply manufacturer hype. It still has a format outputtion of 1440 x 1080 with a PAR of 1.333. That's what HDV is.
All Canon/Sony cameras capture "true 1080" images, so that's also a bit of a misleading comment.
BTW, Varicam, HDCAM, LDK6000 (the big guns of HD) don't capture 1920 x 1080 either, so yet another misleading comment.

The big benefit of the new cam is that it will read the XLH1's 24 and 30p modes, both of which look like hell skydiving.
The HV10 has a great form factor as a palm cam, and at least one protective box manufacturer already has one in their hands with which to create a protective box for skydiving photography.
The A1U is an exceptionally common skydiving HDV camcorder, the HC3 has a smaller form factor than the HV10 does, and even though they're heavy, the JVC HD10 and HD1U have both been used for a lot of skydiving photography.
All in all, it's a great time to be considering HD for skydiving, especially as your clients won't be viewing SD for much longer.

[Stumpy 256]

Sorry i don't get it - are you implying that HDV cameras are not as good as what we are currently using or have i completely misread your first sentence?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[quade 3]

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Sorry i don't get it - are you implying that HDV cameras are not as good as what we are currently using or have i completely misread your first sentence?

I don't think he's implying anything . . . I think he's coming right out and saying that HDV (consumer version of HDTV) isn't as high a quality picture as HDCam (broadcast quality HDTV).

He's right.

Although (and this is my opinion now), as far as consumer equipment goes . . . it's far better than ANYTHING else and quite a good value for the money.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Stumpy 256]

Ah - ok, i thought the implication was that it wasn't as good as the PC/ HC series of this world.

That makes more sense.

(Edited to add: Thanks Quade - its late, and i'm tired!)

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Shoot 0]

If Canon can make a "PC-type" HDV camera then Sony can too. Now that would be good news!

Hope it'll fit inside my FF2

[MB38 0]

Heheh, sorry about the buried snarky remarks regarding HDV. It is an impressive format for what its meant to be... and I think it is to HDCAM as miniDV is to DVCAM [profound! ]. I don't want to steer this into a nice HDV discussion either, it's groovy and I'd love to see some freefall footage shot using it.

Regardless, this seems like a groovy little camera.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[DSE 3]

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Heheh, sorry about the buried snarky remarks regarding HDV. It is an impressive format for what its meant to be... and I think it is to HDCAM as miniDV is to DVCAM [profound! ].

.

Uhh...I put most of my comments in another thread, but DVCAM and DV are EXACTLY the same thing, excepting that DVCAM has a slightly different head pitch and speed. Still 25Mbps or 3.6MBps, and this is why all DVCAM devices play standard DV, and why nearly all DV devices play DVCAM.
Maybe you meant Beta SX instead of DVCAM?

[newshooter12 0]

i'm really thinking most people use different 'standards' (ie... DVCAM or HDV) and 'hardware' (ie... PC-***, etc...) interchangably... so disscusions get confusing. it sounds like most people realize when you buy the broadcast version of equipment you're getting a lot more, but penny-for-penny consumer/prosumer equipment that is coming out can be a great deal considerin what we do with it in skydiving.
matt

[MB38 0]

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Heheh, sorry about the buried snarky remarks regarding HDV. It is an impressive format for what its meant to be... and I think it is to HDCAM as miniDV is to DVCAM [profound! ].

.

Uhh...I put most of my comments in another thread, but DVCAM and DV are EXACTLY the same thing, excepting that DVCAM has a slightly different head pitch and speed. Still 25Mbps or 3.6MBps, and this is why all DVCAM devices play standard DV, and why nearly all DV devices play DVCAM.
Maybe you meant Beta SX instead of DVCAM?

I'll be honest... when I was writing that post I bounced back and forth between DVCAM and Beta. I'd write one, delete the other, write one, delete the other... I settled on DVCAM because of its name alone.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[DSE 3]

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I'll be honest... when I was writing that post I bounced back and forth between DVCAM and Beta. I'd write one, delete the other, write one, delete the other... I settled on DVCAM because of its name alone.

Just to pound it in deeper I suspect you meant Beta SX and not BetaCam or DigiBeta, but I could be wrong. Prosumer DV is actually superior to the significantly older (and now discontinued) BetaCam. The only reason many ENG users kept using BC over DV is because at the time, there were no larger format/shoulder mounts. Then along came the larger version of DV, known as DVCAM. It didn't take long to make the switch. DVCAM is the most widely used production format in the world today. And it's "just" DV.

[MB38 0]

Aaaaugh!!! I just thought Canon's HDV camera was nifty!!!

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[Fast 0]

So... Anyways...

Have you guys jumped the new camera yet? How does it work compared to the sony models that we have seen? Does it have a Lanc port for a cam eye? Is it as small as it looks (looks to be about the size of a PC-350 *discontinued*)


And anyone know if we are gonna see a wideangle that can handle HD resolution anytime soon w/o really bad quality loss?

I would like to shoot in HD but not at the cost of top mounting which would require me to buy a new helmet.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[DSE 3]

The HV10 isn't scheduled to have a preproduction model just yet. Altair makes the sensors in the Canon, so it's likely going to be pretty good. Sony makes the sensors in the higher end cams for Canon, so they're not going to be significantly different than the Sony.
If you want small form HDV right now, Sony's HC3 is similar in size to a PC, somewhat smaller, but won't fit the PC boxes. Bonehead is working on a box for the HC3.

[Shoot 0]

Cookie is working on a HC3 box too.

[DSE 3]

good to know. I'd written a while back asking about a box for the HC3, but didn't get a response.
Cookie makes some slammin' stuff.

[Shoot 0]

http://www.cookiecomposites.com/blackboxinfo.htm

[Fast 0]

Looking at the pre-release photos the one thing I don't see is any type of indicator (lanc) port. That is unfortunate.


I had the oppertunity to jump with an HC 3 this weekend and I am very much in love with the quality of the video. I just don't know if I would want to put that on the side of my head. This canon looks like it would side mount very well, I will just be nervous w/o a external indicator....

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[PhreeZone 15]

350+ jumps with out an external indicator and I've only missed one shot and I caught it on the outside of the plane. Cam-Eyes are great, but they are not as required as a rig is to video people

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Fast 0]

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350+ jumps with out an external indicator and I've only missed one shot and I caught it on the outside of the plane. Cam-Eyes are great, but they are not as required as a rig is to video people

Hah, yeah. I have missed a few here and there even with my cameye, but normally caught them in freefall. The lack of a lanc port wont stop me from buying one of these if they test well for skydiving. They look pretty small and that is nice.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[MB38 0]

HC3 vs. HV10. No mention of a lanc port, but that's not exactly a notable feature for the Times.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[bofh 0]

Seems like it will not work so well for skydiving after all.
Canon's optical image stabilisers have had problems before in freefall. Min zoom of 43mm (in 35mm terms) is most often too little and a converter would cover the focus sensor below the lens.

[Fast 0]

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Seems like it will not work so well for skydiving after all.
Canon's optical image stabilisers have had problems before in freefall. Min zoom of 43mm (in 35mm terms) is most often too little and a converter would cover the focus sensor below the lens.

I think it is a little early to make that call. The HC3 has a similar picture size as this camera does and works fine with a wide angle lense. I did notice when using it that I had to be a bit farther back than I am used to, but I could adjust to that and it was only really an issue when the formation I was filming got really long. (I actually slid around to keep the formation lined up with the "widescreen" direction.)

Looking at the pictures of the camera, I think most of the wide angle lenses will be able to go on there w/o covering the sensor.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[bofh 0]

Let's hope you're right, because it looks like a really nice replacement for the old PC...

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[MB38 0]

Which wide-angle lens are you using? Does it resolve to HD or is it just a standard SD lens?

I really don't know what I'm talking about.