USPA 0 #26 April 8, 2003 Hmmm.. without wanting to start a flame war, try to do the following: Image you decided to buy a rig, you know it's wise to jump a 190, but oh... that 170 looks tempting. No, I'm gonna be safe(r) and get a 190. Now I need the rig itself and maybe it will fit that 170 too, so later I can jump that canopy in the same rig. Ok got that into your mind? Now imagine having 60 jumps, 200-300 jumps is a LONG way into the future (that's alot of jumps!) so downsizing well, after I know this canopy let's say 150 jumps is alot of jumps, maybe I can go to a 170. Ok got that too? Both you and I know 150 jumps is shit in terms of learning to know your canopy. At least 300 jumps in not to many years and you know the basics of how it flies. Remember that also! No read your post thinking like a guy wich I described above, now how do you feel about that 170? The point I'm trying to make is that we should stop learning people that it is normal to get smaller and smaller canopies. I've got nothing against small canopies, I love them! But it takes great skill, knowledge and experience to fly and use them safely. A worldwide problem at the moment is people are flying those smaller canopies without getting the "oh shit, I'm gonna die" experiences with canopies in which they can safe themselves. It's all about attitude!The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #27 April 8, 2003 Quote It's all about attitude! and Atlitude!!!sorry couldn't resistI swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #28 April 9, 2003 If I have too I can put my 135 in my container sized for a 190 now, though its very squishy. Although when I was new to packing it took me a long time to get my slick brand new PD 170 into the same container. How good are you at packing? How new is your canopy ( PD zp or gelvenor fabric ). Since you are very tall its going to be hard to get a container that fits you off the shelf. Once you get a good fit you will most likely hang onto it for a while. To get the most outta your money you may want a first used main and a custom container sized one size smaller. But Arthur even after you get your own rig and can spend more money on jumps, will you be able to jump enough to stay current and get the experience for a downsize in the near future? Some people downsize pretty soon, some downsize in gradual steps spaced over time in the sport and some people kick ass and groove in a wingloading pretty close to 1.1 or 1.2 for many years, all for different reasons. What do you want to do with your gear and which reason will be yours. Glen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #29 April 9, 2003 Pd doesn't really have "demos". I asked Lisa as well and she said that doesn't really happen. But there are some gear stores out there that sell theirs in good condition with just a few hundred jumps on them.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozzie 0 #30 April 10, 2003 Did you even read his post? It said: "what you could try is getting down to a 170 first then buy your gear.". He did not say HURRY and get down to 170 nor did he say WHEN you get down to 170. He said TRY getting down to 170 (as if it may not even happen). That means be patient and not in such a hurry to get your rig. Learn to fly the 190 first (in the mean time learn more about rigs and what u really want or need) and THEN go out and buy your rig with a max size of 170. "Spoken like a true freeflyer" was a total BS comment to make and a flame on way to many people in with one stroke of the brushy mouth. Whichever way he goes, a bag 150-170 or 170 to 190, the problem you describe will still be there and is the subject of a whole other topic. This topic is, can I get a rig that will easily and safely accommodate a 150 through 190 main and save money over time for doing so. OswaldMotion = Emotion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyflyr11 0 #31 April 10, 2003 yes i would have to aggre on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #32 April 10, 2003 Arthur, please stay big. Go with the used container to fit the used 190 and play with it. You won't lose much on the purchase and you will be safe. Unless you are going to be jumping alot (say 5-10 jumps a week) it will be at least a year before you drop down in size to something smaller. Most containers for a 170 will fit the 190. You jump that for say 250-700 jumps then try the 170 and the 150. That should take you right through at least 1000 jumps unless you love canopy flight and really specialize in that. For me even after 600+ jumps on my 170 spectre I can still have some fun on landing doing a 180 front riser turn. That said I can't wait for my new 135 sabre2. But I have 50+ jumps on a 150 and 40 or so on various 135 and a few on 120s. Remember get the canopy that you can land safely in a tight spot out down wind and in traffic, NOT the one that you can land.Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #33 April 10, 2003 Don't worry Chris i will be a member of the Skytrain club for a while!!I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Islandcool 0 #34 April 10, 2003 If you're ever at the DZ at Otay and I'm there you can jump my rig and mess with the Hornet 170 a bit. The wingloading will be a little higher for you but I'll let you give it a go if you want. I'm not one to promote going small either. I do like my hornet 170 better that my Tri 190. Both fit in the container about the same and I didn't have to change the closing loop. There are differences between seven and nice cells in packing volume...isn't there? Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viking 0 #35 April 10, 2003 Thanx but no, not ready for it yet.I swear you must have footprints on the back of your helmet - chicagoskydiver My God has a bigger dick than your god -George Carlin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #36 April 10, 2003 QuotePd doesn't really have "demos". I asked Lisa as well and she said that doesn't really happen. But there are some gear stores out there that sell theirs in good condition with just a few hundred jumps on them. PD doesn't have demo's huh??? they do. do you mean for sale? they do that to. they also have used canopies (trade ins) http://www.performancedesigns.com/stocklist.asp Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #37 April 10, 2003 I don't know how common it is, but my friend jumps a Mirage that's been modified (by a master rigger) with some carpet padding to fit a smaller canopy in it. Just enough to go down one more size than the container was designed for. It's an option if you do go with a container that's too big for what you want. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #38 April 10, 2003 Albatross said: Quote Remember get the canopy that you can land safely in a tight spot out down wind and in traffic, NOT the one that you can land. Just don't follow Michele or Ladyskydiver into the pattern! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Islandcool 0 #39 April 10, 2003 Quote Just don't follow Michele or Ladyskydiver into the pattern! Dude! It's way to early for me to be wetting my pants over here.Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #40 April 10, 2003 Quote Just don't follow Michele or Ladyskydiver into the pattern! Love you, too, Shark! Prior to coming to CA, I'll have you know that I stood up my last 6 jumps. And, I'm taking a canopy control class next month with a gentleman from PD so I will get better. Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #41 April 10, 2003 His question was regarding the sale of Demo canopies and according to Lisa they don't really sell those. You can buy PD demo canopies from gear stores that have them.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
