mickhardy 0 #1 January 9, 2004 Will the Canon EOS 300D with Sigma 12-24mm Lens, which has a fairly high maximum aperture of 4.5-5.6, still take reasonable freefall shots in low light? If you bump the ASA speed up to 400 at max aperture, what shutter speeds will you get on sunset or near sunset loads? I'm about to buy this combination. I'm relatively new to freefall photography but OK with video. I didn't realise zoom lenses had such a high max aperture compared with fixed lenses. I think I need the range and two fixed lenses is a tad expensive at this stage. Does 12-24mm equate to 19-38mm on the 300D? I'm trying to match the Red Eye (.3) and Blue Eye (.45) Way Cool video lenses. My Sony (.6) matches my 28mm film EOS pretty much perfectly but I'd prefer slightly wider. I'm guessing the (.45) would be about 22mm? Can you make the 300D go as wide as the .3 video lens? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #2 January 9, 2004 That is the combination I use currently - I got the Sigma 12-24EX in December and have only put 4 or 5 jumps on it. Its inner zoom and inner focus that helps for setup but helps make it a heavy beast but at least the 300D is not. The depth of field with that lens is strange and I'm still playing with the best focal setting, the calculated hyperfocal distance did not work so great - I keep it stopped down as much as possible, AV F8 or F9. Yes, 19mm to 38mm equiv. It matches my KUW-042M at ~13mm and my SGW-05PRO at ~18mm. From what I've seen the KUW-042 is actualy wider than the stumpy .3s - might be the camera difference but I just love conversion lens numbers they're so random. This guy did a detailed writeup on the lens: http://194.100.88.243/petteri/pont/Reviews/a_Sigma_12-24_f4.5-5.6/a_Sigma_EX_12-24_f4.5-5.6.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #3 January 10, 2004 Look at the Sigma ex 14mmf/2.8 that is a kick ass value . I do not use any zoom lenses on digital cameras as there are sharpness issues . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #4 January 10, 2004 I was very excited about that lens, but it got very, very poor reviews. The 15 fisheye by Sigma is a great value, and with the clipping that occurs due to the 1.6 mag factor, it really doesn't distort very much. I suggest sticking with fixed lenses. I do use the 28-200 on the ground and even in the air occasionally, but fixed is better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #5 January 10, 2004 There was a lot of early poor reviews: bad preproduction samples, snap comclusions, etc. The current opinions have been mostly positive. A lot better than the Canon, Sigma and Tamron 14/2.8 rectilinears that are almost as wide as the 12-24 - those 3 lenses get horrible reviews and the test shots I saw with them suck (especially for $750 to $1000). If you like the fish-eye effect there are several out there, I have a 12mm FE that is silly wide. You can pick up a Zenitar 16mm FE - its $130 and samples look just as sharp its just manual, in freefall - who cares. I just don't like FE effect that much. I would have bought the Sigma 12-24 anyway - for hiking, it works amazing for framing a waterfall or an overlook. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickhardy 0 #6 January 12, 2004 Thanks heaps for your replies. The Sigma 12-24mm review was particularly useful. The fixed lenses such as the Sigma 14mm 2.8 would be nice for low light jumps but I'm usually drinking beer by then. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vdschoor 0 #7 January 12, 2004 I really like the fixed lenses though, I have the Sigma EX 15mm F2.8 FishEye and I absolutely love it. The FishEye effect is hardly visible, unless you make up the shot to be like that (place the horizon really far to the bottom of the lens) Deuce's 14 is way cool too, but it's frikkin' massive! The problem with the zoom lenses though is you have to tape them down so bad... You have to tape down the zoomring, the focus ring etc. etc. I think the fixed lenses are just more lens for the money compared to zoomlenses, at least in skydiving. Just my $ 0.02 Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #8 January 12, 2004 Quote I really like the fixed lenses though I agree with you, for all of the reasons you've listed. On top of that, the wider f/stop availability on a fixed lens as well. I know one cameraflyer, though, who uses a very nice zoom lens for all his jumps (student jumps). He manually zooms in to get a close up of just before exit, then manually scrolls it out during the exit! His shots are incredible, but that's just too much for me. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vdschoor 0 #9 January 13, 2004 QuoteQuote I really like the fixed lenses though On top of that, the wider f/stop availability on a fixed lens as well. That's true, if you want the same f/stop on a zoom lens, you're looking at spending some major jumptickets! Quote I know one cameraflyer, though, who uses a very nice zoom lens for all his jumps (student jumps). He manually zooms in to get a close up of just before exit, then manually scrolls it out during the exit! His shots are incredible, but that's just too much for me. ltdiver WOW! That is way cool, I guess he figured out how to set the focus then huh? That would be to much work for me though, and on top of that, the risk of seeing my hand in the video, since my stills are front-mounted. I already have to bump up the zoom a little bit in order for that massive lens cap on the 15mm to disappear from the video.... Thanks, Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mickhardy 0 #10 January 13, 2004 Thanks again for all your replies - you're not making it easy for me. I guess fixed lenses are worth the extra bucks. Rather than taping my current 28-80, I have a big lucky band, which slides over the zoom. On manual focus, you don't have to tape the focus as it's locked inside the lens. Is the 12-24 similar? I live in a smallish town so I can't try before I buy. I'll have to buy over the Internet. Zooming on exit is pretty cool - I guess he must be over the sensory overload thing. In the few still jumps I've done, I've forgotten to take any photos, forgotten to turn the camera on, forgotten to set the focus, and forgotten to fix the zoom. Early video was even better. I'm getting two video lenses from Way Cool, the new Black Eye (<.3) and the Blue Eye (.45). Which still lenses would most closely match these on the EOS 300D? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites psw097 0 #11 January 13, 2004 The Sigma 12-24 is inner zoom and inner (FTM) focus - the length of the lens does not change during zooming. It is full time manual focus - the focus ring does not rotate or any part other part of the lens during focus. It is all internal. For the price of the 12-24 you can get a Sigma 15/2.8 FE and a Tokina 17/3.5 or Sigma 20/1.8 - so I don't know about extra bucks - but none are 12mm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vdschoor 0 #12 January 14, 2004 Quote Zooming on exit is pretty cool - I guess he must be over the sensory overload thing. In the few still jumps I've done, I've forgotten to take any photos, forgotten to turn the camera on, forgotten to set the focus, and forgotten to fix the zoom. Early video was even better. I'm getting two video lenses from Way Cool, the new Black Eye (<.3) and the Blue Eye (.45). Which still lenses would most closely match these on the EOS 300D? I can't comment on the features of the 12-24 Sigma, never even seen it. But even though the focus is "locked" inside the lens, there is still the possibility that the focus ring could move right? in that case your shot is hosed, so that's why I would tape it down. Regarding the sensory overload.... an interesting point, but it indicates a couple of issues here. There's a couple of reasons for wearing an altimeter... for the "ride" down, but in case of a camera flier (at least for me..) for the ride up. I got a couple of stops on the way up, I double check my gear before getting on the plane, at 10K (we go to 14K) I get my camera stuff ready to rumble, turn the camera on, make sure the focus is still ok etc. Then at 12 I double check my handles, and ask for pin check, at 14K door opens, and I turn the camera on recording, if I am first out sometimes a little sooner... This prevents you from rushing things, which is one of the reasons you forget to turn cameras on.. Regarding "forgetting" to take pictures.. well, I guess that could happen, it hasn't happened to me yet, but it might if I see something really ugly coming off the plane or something... So, get ready well before climbout.. Regarding your lenses, I am not an expert here but my .5 wide angle (Kenko) lines up almost perfect with the Sigma 15mm on my Digital Rebel (300D) Thanks, Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jmfreefly 0 #13 January 14, 2004 QuoteOn manual focus, you don't have to tape the focus as it's locked inside the lens ?? What lens does this?? I think there may be some crossed thoughts here. On fixed focal lenses, the focal length is locked. On variable focal length lenses (like the 12-24), there is an external adjustment, which would need to be secured to ensure you are shooting the focal length you think. Is this what you mean? As for manual focus lenses, I don't think I have seen one that doesn't have an external ring for adjustment (save for crappy digitals that you set it in the menu, but they dont take external lenses). Some of the sigmas do have their manual focus ring that can 'snap' into a position that allows the focus to adjust without turning the ring (and vice versa). This is useful for photogs that use autofocus, and want to hold the camera by the barrel and not affect the focus process. am i just missing what you said? j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mickhardy 0 #14 January 15, 2004 Yep, you're right. Not sure what I was thinking. I didn't have my camera with me as it was at the repair shop. The cost of repair is not much less than a new film EOS, which is what started this whole adventure. I decided to scrap the repair and buy a new film EOS but then realised the time has come for digital. Hence the EOS 300D and 12-24mm lens - I'm still going with the original plan for many reasons, some of which were discussed elsewhere. When I was talking about securing the lens, my memory confused me. On AutoFocus the focus is locked. I jump manual focus but I only need one wide rubber band to secure it as the focus and zoom rotate in opposite directions. The rubber band overlaps the focus and the zoom mechanisms and lock both. My mistake. My self-payouts were exaggerated and from a long time ago when digital video was new. I'll keep the tips on gearing up close at hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jmfreefly 0 #15 January 15, 2004 I am right there with you re: EOS repairs. I just sent mine to MACK Camera (who suck), and they initially quoted $100 bucks.. then they called back and said 'an extra $50'. New ones are $145, so I told them to stuff it. So they charged me $45 fee to look at the camera.. peckerheads. Should have just had them repair it had I known. oh well. lessoned learned. Where did you get the rubber band you are referring to? I always end up using gaffers tape, which can be a royal pain sometimes. j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mickhardy 0 #16 January 17, 2004 Jeez, $45USD to look at it? You did get ripped off. I paid $20AUD ($15USD) for them to tell me it was screwed. Still, it has done a lot of service in some not so nice environments. It's about 10 years old. The rubber band is nothing special. Its about 15mm wide and fits fairly snugly around the lens. I have no idea where I originally got it from. I didn't want to use tape and risk any residue on the lens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
vdschoor 0 #7 January 12, 2004 I really like the fixed lenses though, I have the Sigma EX 15mm F2.8 FishEye and I absolutely love it. The FishEye effect is hardly visible, unless you make up the shot to be like that (place the horizon really far to the bottom of the lens) Deuce's 14 is way cool too, but it's frikkin' massive! The problem with the zoom lenses though is you have to tape them down so bad... You have to tape down the zoomring, the focus ring etc. etc. I think the fixed lenses are just more lens for the money compared to zoomlenses, at least in skydiving. Just my $ 0.02 Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #8 January 12, 2004 Quote I really like the fixed lenses though I agree with you, for all of the reasons you've listed. On top of that, the wider f/stop availability on a fixed lens as well. I know one cameraflyer, though, who uses a very nice zoom lens for all his jumps (student jumps). He manually zooms in to get a close up of just before exit, then manually scrolls it out during the exit! His shots are incredible, but that's just too much for me. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #9 January 13, 2004 QuoteQuote I really like the fixed lenses though On top of that, the wider f/stop availability on a fixed lens as well. That's true, if you want the same f/stop on a zoom lens, you're looking at spending some major jumptickets! Quote I know one cameraflyer, though, who uses a very nice zoom lens for all his jumps (student jumps). He manually zooms in to get a close up of just before exit, then manually scrolls it out during the exit! His shots are incredible, but that's just too much for me. ltdiver WOW! That is way cool, I guess he figured out how to set the focus then huh? That would be to much work for me though, and on top of that, the risk of seeing my hand in the video, since my stills are front-mounted. I already have to bump up the zoom a little bit in order for that massive lens cap on the 15mm to disappear from the video.... Thanks, Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickhardy 0 #10 January 13, 2004 Thanks again for all your replies - you're not making it easy for me. I guess fixed lenses are worth the extra bucks. Rather than taping my current 28-80, I have a big lucky band, which slides over the zoom. On manual focus, you don't have to tape the focus as it's locked inside the lens. Is the 12-24 similar? I live in a smallish town so I can't try before I buy. I'll have to buy over the Internet. Zooming on exit is pretty cool - I guess he must be over the sensory overload thing. In the few still jumps I've done, I've forgotten to take any photos, forgotten to turn the camera on, forgotten to set the focus, and forgotten to fix the zoom. Early video was even better. I'm getting two video lenses from Way Cool, the new Black Eye (<.3) and the Blue Eye (.45). Which still lenses would most closely match these on the EOS 300D? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psw097 0 #11 January 13, 2004 The Sigma 12-24 is inner zoom and inner (FTM) focus - the length of the lens does not change during zooming. It is full time manual focus - the focus ring does not rotate or any part other part of the lens during focus. It is all internal. For the price of the 12-24 you can get a Sigma 15/2.8 FE and a Tokina 17/3.5 or Sigma 20/1.8 - so I don't know about extra bucks - but none are 12mm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vdschoor 0 #12 January 14, 2004 Quote Zooming on exit is pretty cool - I guess he must be over the sensory overload thing. In the few still jumps I've done, I've forgotten to take any photos, forgotten to turn the camera on, forgotten to set the focus, and forgotten to fix the zoom. Early video was even better. I'm getting two video lenses from Way Cool, the new Black Eye (<.3) and the Blue Eye (.45). Which still lenses would most closely match these on the EOS 300D? I can't comment on the features of the 12-24 Sigma, never even seen it. But even though the focus is "locked" inside the lens, there is still the possibility that the focus ring could move right? in that case your shot is hosed, so that's why I would tape it down. Regarding the sensory overload.... an interesting point, but it indicates a couple of issues here. There's a couple of reasons for wearing an altimeter... for the "ride" down, but in case of a camera flier (at least for me..) for the ride up. I got a couple of stops on the way up, I double check my gear before getting on the plane, at 10K (we go to 14K) I get my camera stuff ready to rumble, turn the camera on, make sure the focus is still ok etc. Then at 12 I double check my handles, and ask for pin check, at 14K door opens, and I turn the camera on recording, if I am first out sometimes a little sooner... This prevents you from rushing things, which is one of the reasons you forget to turn cameras on.. Regarding "forgetting" to take pictures.. well, I guess that could happen, it hasn't happened to me yet, but it might if I see something really ugly coming off the plane or something... So, get ready well before climbout.. Regarding your lenses, I am not an expert here but my .5 wide angle (Kenko) lines up almost perfect with the Sigma 15mm on my Digital Rebel (300D) Thanks, Iwan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #13 January 14, 2004 QuoteOn manual focus, you don't have to tape the focus as it's locked inside the lens ?? What lens does this?? I think there may be some crossed thoughts here. On fixed focal lenses, the focal length is locked. On variable focal length lenses (like the 12-24), there is an external adjustment, which would need to be secured to ensure you are shooting the focal length you think. Is this what you mean? As for manual focus lenses, I don't think I have seen one that doesn't have an external ring for adjustment (save for crappy digitals that you set it in the menu, but they dont take external lenses). Some of the sigmas do have their manual focus ring that can 'snap' into a position that allows the focus to adjust without turning the ring (and vice versa). This is useful for photogs that use autofocus, and want to hold the camera by the barrel and not affect the focus process. am i just missing what you said? j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickhardy 0 #14 January 15, 2004 Yep, you're right. Not sure what I was thinking. I didn't have my camera with me as it was at the repair shop. The cost of repair is not much less than a new film EOS, which is what started this whole adventure. I decided to scrap the repair and buy a new film EOS but then realised the time has come for digital. Hence the EOS 300D and 12-24mm lens - I'm still going with the original plan for many reasons, some of which were discussed elsewhere. When I was talking about securing the lens, my memory confused me. On AutoFocus the focus is locked. I jump manual focus but I only need one wide rubber band to secure it as the focus and zoom rotate in opposite directions. The rubber band overlaps the focus and the zoom mechanisms and lock both. My mistake. My self-payouts were exaggerated and from a long time ago when digital video was new. I'll keep the tips on gearing up close at hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #15 January 15, 2004 I am right there with you re: EOS repairs. I just sent mine to MACK Camera (who suck), and they initially quoted $100 bucks.. then they called back and said 'an extra $50'. New ones are $145, so I told them to stuff it. So they charged me $45 fee to look at the camera.. peckerheads. Should have just had them repair it had I known. oh well. lessoned learned. Where did you get the rubber band you are referring to? I always end up using gaffers tape, which can be a royal pain sometimes. j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickhardy 0 #16 January 17, 2004 Jeez, $45USD to look at it? You did get ripped off. I paid $20AUD ($15USD) for them to tell me it was screwed. Still, it has done a lot of service in some not so nice environments. It's about 10 years old. The rubber band is nothing special. Its about 15mm wide and fits fairly snugly around the lens. I have no idea where I originally got it from. I didn't want to use tape and risk any residue on the lens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
