When to Start Flying with a Camera

[flyer299 0]

I want to know what you experinced guys think. What kind of experince should a Sky Diver have before he straps a Camera to his head? I know there are many different types of camera flying, so here is what I am talking about.

I want to start flying with a Camera, but not being a Camera guy. I want to get a very low profile and light camera and just bring it a long with me and do the same old jumps. I am not interested in shooting other people, formations or Tandems, but just to have a record of my jump on video.

I am just now thinking of this, but it doesn't mean I am running out to buy the Camera or anything. I want to get some feed back on if it is somthing I can start thinking about soon, or should I wait another 100-200 jumps? I've got 55 jumps so far in the last 6 months.

Thanks Guys.

[quade 3]

In general I'd go along with the USPA SIM Section 6-8: Camera Flying Recommendations.

Additionally, if you decide to focus on camera flying too early, you may be distracted from learning and being exposed to a lot of other stuff -- you just won't be very well rounded.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Deuce 1]

With the D license requirement now at 500 jumps, that might be overkill. But the rest of the SIM is right on.

[quade 3]

I believe that's going to be addressed in the next update of the SIM. Probably go to 200 jumps and a C.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[diablopilot 2]

I know people will call me a Camera Nazi, but I'd like to see more restriction. I've been seeing too many people w/ less than 100 jumps go and jump something they are not ready for, and have not asked about the dangers of, because they know what the answer will be.

There are numerous fatality reports of highly experienced camera flyers going in, that younger jumpers either never hear about, or choose to ignore.

Kinda like the small canopy thing, newer jumpers seem to be rushing to put a camera on their dome because it's cool, and heck how dangerous can it really be?

Worrisome it is.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[davelepka 4]

I'm not sure how to make a "clicky" for this, or even how to post the search resutls, BUT, if you do a search of all my posts in the Photo and Video forum, look for the one titled "For the New Guys". There may be some things in there for you to consider when thinking about jumping with a camera.

[quade 3]

JP, jp --

I think you both know my feelings on this (if not, read them HERE) and the USPA recommendations, but what specific skills and experience would you recommend beyond or in addition to what have already been outlined?

300 jumps?
Some sort of class and rating?
I think some sort of mentoring is appropriate, but that's already in the USPA recommendation.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[diablopilot 2]

I'd like to say 500 jumps. It's unrealisic but.....

I'll think on it.

At least the ablity to make a controled no velocity dock in the disiplin they intend to shoot.

Cutaway practice in a hanging harness with a helmet. Cutaway the helmet too.

A study and test on the fatality reports involving camera persons, kinda like you need to do for an RWS tandem rating.

I'll come up with more I'm sure.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Deuce 1]

Oh, Q, that put up or shut up thing. It just grates on my libertarian proclivities. (I'm having fun with Big Words today)

I'd like to see a Camera version of an S&TA. I really like all of jp's suggestions, particularly the cutaway of both rig and helmet, but I don't see how they can be fairly and uniformly enforced. Personality issues can really complicate a simple thing like a mandatory safety briefing and oral quiz prior to being checked off to jump camera.

200 jumps minimum. Formal safety breifing with materials to review. Oral quiz. Checkout jump. I think the person to do this is the video concession owner, but not every DZ has one.

A Camera-flier Instructor rating? Minimum of 1000 camera jumps to apply.

I'm challenged by the concept of a practice cutaway helmet. My 10D Bat rack setup is huge and heavy. I guess if I cut it from a hanging harness into a deep well of cut foam, but who's gonna set one of those up?

I think it's working OK now. It would be nice if there was a rating so that new guys could get their questions answered by a knowledgeable person.

When I started I had you, Q, and I turned out OK. It definitely is a process that requires mentoring.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

I'd like to see a Camera version of an S&TA.

Why not give this job to existing S&TA's? Provide them with check lists and guidelines incase they are not camera flyers themselves. Then each local S&TA can build them selves a pool of local camera flyers to be mentors.

Quote

200 jumps minimum

Higher IMO

Quote

Checkout jump.

I'm not saying don't do it, but I don't think this is necessary. The aplicant should already posses flying skills, and I'm not sure the rating should be a training camp.

Quote

I'm challenged by the concept of a practice cutaway helmet. My 10D Bat rack setup is huge and heavy.

Have someone hold it. I just want to drill the idea that you may have an addition to your emergency procedures. I teach this with birdman suits, and practice it myself. Same with freefly tubes. It's one of the reasons the jump numbers need to be high(er). The camera flyer (birdman/freefly tube/skysurf) needs to be both comfortable and aware enough in the air to respond to emergency situations, not just react as programed.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Deuce 1]

I've jumped with some pretty spastic people with way, way higher jump numbers than mine. That's why I think individial evaluation is best.

We're not talking about shooting tandems or RW here, are we? Just wearing a video camera.

Yeah, I'd go higher numbers to shoot tandems, the camera flier introduces a risk. 500 would not be unreasonable there.

[jimmytavino 16]

Yeah, I'd go higher numbers to shoot tandems, the camera flier introduces a risk. 500 would not be unreasonable there.

[JeffD 0]

How about just mounting one on your chest and not your head. Depending on where you point it, I think it would look kinda cool. For example you strap it on your chest and aim it straight to the ground, This will give you a good time to review your dive,(if your still trying to learn something) like tracking, involuntary turns etc. or you could point it at your head so you can get a cool canopy ride movie. Just a thought if people are drilling the helmet issue.

[quade 3]

In a word . . . no.

Attaching a camera anywhere on your body increases your overall risks in a skydive. That said, the helmet is usually the safest option for a beginner, but as you can see, some of the more experienced folks on this web site are fairly concerned about the skill levels of people attempting this for the first time.

I would not recommend it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[diablopilot 2]

Quade is right. One needs to thik about jumping a camera like it was a bunch of the biggest, nastiest, fishing hooks you've ever seen sewn to their jumpsuit or helmet.

No wait, grapling hooks, yeah that's it.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Deuce 1]

Quote

No wait, grapling hooks, yeah that's it.

Ooooh. Neato. Like Batman had on his utility belt to climb up the sides of buildings with Robin? How hard could that be?!

[diablopilot 2]

I refuse to follow this post into the plethora of jokes it deserves. I've been scolded a couple of times recently for participating in the degradation of posts in the "topical" forums.


But you know I want to!

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[freeflyguy 0]

My thought.

I have a fair number of jumps, but not all that many with camera.

What I have noticed though, is that if you jump with a camera, regardless of it's size, or where it is attached, it distracts you from the jump. The fiddeling around makeing sure it is on, focused, set right, blah blah.

One time I started walking out to the plane without my rig. Duh. I must blame that on my being distracted with the camera. So this isn't all about deployment, and cutaway helmet systems. It is more about experience in skydiving. you need that before you start adding complexites, such as cameras, wing suits or whatever. Time, experience and training.

----------------------------
bzzzz

[Margusja 0]

I started when I had 145 jumps...
Helmet was big... :)

[quade 3]

Quote

One time I started walking out to the plane without my rig. Duh.

Unfortunately, camera flyers have exited aircraft from full altitude without their rigs.

As part of my routine for gearing up, I will NOT touch my camera helmet until AFTER I have my rig on.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Clownburner 0]

Quote

Unfortunately, camera flyers have exited aircraft from full altitude without their rigs.

Really? None of the other jumpers mentioned it to them? Or the pilot? Not that I'm doubting your word, it just seems improbable that no one would notice a jumper that wasn't wearing a rig at all.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[indyz 1]

Quote

Really? None of the other jumpers mentioned it to them? Or the pilot? Not that I'm doubting your word, it just seems improbable that no one would notice a jumper that wasn't wearing a rig at all.

Yep, really. I happened in 1988 to a guy named Ivan Lester McGuire. It don't have access to Lexis/Nexis anymore (news database), but somebody who does could pull up the relevant stories pretty easily.

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Quote

Unfortunately, camera flyers have exited aircraft from full altitude without their rigs.

Really? None of the other jumpers mentioned it to them? Or the pilot? Not that I'm doubting your word, it just seems improbable that no one would notice a jumper that wasn't wearing a rig at all.

Yes, it has happened. One one occasion, I'm told, the cameraflyer was wearing a 'harness' that connected the recording unit to his chest (?), and the camera was on his head. This gave him the illusion that his rig was on.

On another occasion, a very experienced instructor was in the plane, releasing S/L students. He was not planning on jumping....just going up and releasing his students, then riding the plane back down. His impulse, after the last student left, was to jump out after them! He caught himself just as he started to exit and remembered that he didn't have his rig on!!!! He now wears his rig each and every time he goes up, even if he doesn't plan on jumping. Just in case.

These are just two incidence I know about. There may be more.

And yes, when I had just started flying camera (in WA), I was caught going to the plane without my rig. I was filming a tandem and was absorbed with the ground production part of it. I was getting the 'walk to the plane' section when another cameraflyer tapped me on the shoulder and said, "Say, are you forgetting something?"! I nearly fainted! Since then, I've been very meticulous about what procedure I use in equipment donning before each jump.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[ltdiver 3]

Do you mean this incident? Ivan Lester McGuire

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[kallend 1,679]

Quote

Quade is right. One needs to thik about jumping a camera like it was a bunch of the biggest, nastiest, fishing hooks you've ever seen sewn to their jumpsuit or helmet.

No wait, grapling hooks, yeah that's it.

Why does it have to be like that? It's not as if engineering a camera helmet without snag points is an impossible task, it just takes a bit more effort than just screwing the camera(s) and sight on.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.