Launching Bows

[StreetScooby 5]

I'm point, and I'm causing 180 degrees of rotation on launch. What am I doing wrong?

We are all engines of karma

[AndyBoyd 0]

You are probably not driving your right elbow and shoulder down hard enough. If you cannot see tail's reserve handle, you are not doing it right.

Before anyone gets all bent out of shape, that's a joke. Seriously, if your formation is turning 180, it is highly unlikely you are the sole cause. Have an experienced coach look at a video of your exit. That's the only way to figure out what's wrong.

[rehmwa 2]

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I'm point, and I'm causing 180 degrees of rotation on launch. What am I doing wrong?

wow - there's 4 people causing this. post slo-mo video - or show an experienced competitor.

I personally find that the inside people have more input to initial rotation on a bow - but point can sure help or hurt the cause

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Joellercoaster 6]

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I'm point, and I'm causing 180 degrees of rotation on launch. What am I doing wrong?

wow - there's 4 people causing this.

Right on. And I'd say Point sometimes has the least influence over it, beyond staying mostly out of the way!

Be patient and relaxed. You still want to get out the door and presented in good time, so be positive and don't get dragged out of the plane. But if you think about H (Bow) as a fairly long sheet on the relative wind (to start with this is coming from the nose of the plane), with Tail quite a way down the hill from you and you up at the top, looking over your shoulder down at Tail, you can see that you are in no hurry to launch - give time and space to OC and IC - and that you don't need to push off too hard at all to be in that position.

IC can cause H to get dragged around if they're hesitant or impeded, OC needs to present well and make the right space, and Tail has a lot of influence in keeping it on heading.

4-way is definitely about all 4 of you

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[StreetScooby 5]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Much appreciated.

We are all engines of karma

[Ron 7]

Without video for us to look at.... Well you get what you get.

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I'm point, and I'm causing 180 degrees of rotation on launch. What am I doing wrong?

It is possible you are causing it.... There are other possible reasons as well.

1. Is tail getting down on exit, or is (s)he in the way of IC and ridding high?
2. Are you getting yanked out the door? This can cause a whip reaction that puts energy into the formation?

First thing we need to do is get rid of the idea that exits are static events. They are fluid and ever changing. If you think there is only one move on exit.... Your wrong. There is an *ideal* move, but lets be honest ideal rarely happens.

If we approached blocks like most people do exits, we would have 4 people doing their own thing and totally ignoring what the other three are doing and totally ignoring what the formation is doing. We just don't do that, we have pictures that we are looking for during a block move and we adjust our move from *ideal* based on what picture we see at each stage. The best teams constantly adjust and have no set pictures... They have so much awareness and so much experience that they are constantly making adjustments...... You do this too, think of all the fall rate adjustments you make on a skydive. They, being PRO's, just do more and better.

I am willing to bet you could have airspeed line up in the door and allow me to just push them out without an exit count and they will still pull off the exit. It is because they know that an exit count is just a guide and that the real exit happens as it happens and they "make the play" to make it right.

So.... What SHOULD a Bow exit look like? You have to know this before you can assume one person is screwing it up.

Point... Highest and his center point should be between the 12 and 1 o'clock position. I should be able to CLEARLY see his rig as if he were flat and not on the hill. His foot should be the LAST thing on the door for the entire group. If you push out it will rotate, if you launch early it will rotate, if you get yanked out... Guess what? Yep, it will rotate.

OC... Should be 9 o'clock. He should work on trying to be at 10 o'clock and making damn sure he is square with the wind. He should also blast off the plane enough to make a hole for IC's fat ass to get through.

IC should be 3 o'clock and work to get out, get presented.

Tail should be LOW almost like he pulled the formation off the plane. If he is high.... Well lets just say this is the first thing that should be fixed, because the rest is crap till this is fixed. He should also think about a little left on exit to help kill any rotation... But his first and most important job is to put downward tension on the formation. Everything else is secondary... And I mean everything. I have seen tail exits (by see I mean done) where I didn't get the right grip or even didn't present well and rolled on my side. As long as I was DOWN (and fixed it quick before the key) the exit still launched.

So, post a pic, or better yet a video and then we can really get into it.

Again, someone else said "Don't get drug out"... and that is true because you getting yanked out will cause you to over run your position, but you do need to be the LAST to leave the plane. for me, that was my right foot was basically left in the door till I was in freefall... then we keyed it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

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OC... Should be 9 o'clock. He should work on trying to be at 10 o'clock and making damn sure he is square with the wind. He should also blast off the plane enough to make a hole for IC's fat ass to get through.

IC should be 3 o'clock and work to get out, get presented.

+++++

for our teams, this was huge -

OC at 9:00 (but trying for 10 or 11)

IC at 3:00 (but trying for 4 or 5) - the hockey stop move is a bit ahead of the count - As OC I make room for IC's hips on exit by getting forward in the door a LOT - point doesn't have to have shoulders out the door really - YMMV

then point and tail just had to place themselves correctly - absolutely point out last, and anchoring a little bias towards the IC

takes all 4, but no rotation at all just feels great (along with that instant key)

But really, there's no substitute for letting us view a few exits.


edit: when I'm helping new teams, E, H, D type exits - I find that a lot of the rotation comes from one of two things (or a combo of both) - the OC isn't launching out and forward enough the allow the IC to get out of the plane early enough. Or, the IC is just leaving face first, instead getting the hips moving. (see how important I think the IC is on these kinds of launches? an IC's center of body awareness, IMHO, really needs to be just south of his belly button, not his head)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[StreetScooby 5]

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Point... Highest and his center point should be between the 12 and 1 o'clock position. I should be able to CLEARLY see his rig as if he were flat and not on the hill. His foot should be the LAST thing on the door for the entire group. If you push out it will rotate, if you launch early it will rotate, if you get yanked out... Guess what? Yep, it will rotate.

HUGE FEEDBACK! I was thinking this, but have not executed it. Thanks!

I'm posting this thread to my team, BTW.

Thanks very much for all of the feedback!

We are all engines of karma

[StreetScooby 5]

rehmwa, don't want to leave you out. Good stuff!

We are all engines of karma