NSL Rookie team exits

[danielcroft 2]

I'm in a rookie team in the RSL (Ranch Skydiving League) and we've been told that there are some exits that rookie teams "shouldn't do" but the person telling us that neglected to elaborate further on which exits are appropriate for rookies. One of my team members said he was told that rookie teams are only supposed to do 4 randoms out of the door.

Help?

Thanks.

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[elightle 8]

Hi, Daniel.
NSL rookie teams can exit any of the 16 randoms in the dive pool. However, many of the randoms are difficult to exit without considerable practice. For this reason, rookie teams usually exit easier formations and transition to the more difficult ones. For example, you can exit an E (Meeker) and grip switch to an L (Adder). You can also exit the Meeker and transition to a J (Donut). There are more but this gives you the idea.

Hope this helps!
Ed

[rehmwa 2]

One Guy's opinion - Everything can be launched if you work the basics (timing, individual presentation, team presentation). But if you learn E and P, you got most of it kicked.

E - B, D, E, H, J, L, M
P - A, C, F, G, K, N, O, P, Q

(knowing a couple others eliminate some of the awkward ones above)

H is really nice as it trains each slot pretty nicely in their basic exit roles.

Big issues?

1 - Tail not drawing out the bottom or even leaving late. He has to leave below the others and stay there. This will help with bobbling and funnels

2 - Point leaving early or presenting very poorly. He has to launch up and open up his hips well. This will help with bobbling and funnels

3 - The insides not anticipating the snatch - OC needs to launch a bit forward, IC has to be leaving with motion to the tail. Helps eliminate rotation - big time.

4 - OC - you can't hardly present big enough. funnels, bobbles - hips, hips, hips

5 - IC - mostly leaves with a "hockey stop". has to move the center of mass, not lead with the head and shoulders. Ditto for the point really..... rotation again.

Frankly, everyone should be thinking of placing their center of mass and get their minds aligned to their hips and not their eyes.

It helps to have the team hold up their hands and show where they plan to be and how steep right off the plane.

Steep is our friend, remember the relative wind starts out nearly horizontal.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[danielcroft 2]

Thanks guys. We generally try to exit whichever the first point is but only if we're all comfortable in the mock up. We made the mistake of trying to exit a round the on one of our more recent jumps which didn't really work out. I think we generally get 70-80% of our exits, not always pretty but ok for the most part.
What would people consider the really awkward exits?

[elightle 8]

Yea, that REHMWA guy knows what he's talking about.

[Dazzle 0]

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One Guy's opinion - Everything can be launched if you work the basics (timing, individual presentation, team presentation). But if you learn E and P, you got most of it kicked.

I'm never quite sure why everyone suggests E for a rookie exit, I (OC) find it really one of the worst for having to dynamically get up and present. Much prefer using B in its place

[danielcroft 2]

I'm sure this will amuse several people but the letters mean nothing to me.

I'll point the rest of my team at this thread. I also have video online if anyone cares to giggle.

[Dazzle 0]

Learning the letters (and later numbers) is a very worthwhile exercise, that you can achieve in your own time for no cost. Learning them and refering to the formations leaves you with more head space to be remembering the skydive.

It doesn't take too long before you don't even know what the names are anymore (E = Meeker, B = stairstep diamond, P = sidebody)

Dougals phone program is really helpful for that.

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In Reply To

Dougal Seeley updated his program for mobile phones to include the 8 way dive pool. It has all the formations and can generate random draws.

You can download from wap.dougalseeley.com or www.dougalseeley.com.

Runs on java enabled phones (most of them).

PERFECT!!!!

I've downloaded it on my blackjack (Windows Mobile 6) and it works as a charm. Time to impress my friends at the DZ

[darkwing 4]

In my experience you are much better off in the long run just trying to launch everything. That is part of the fun, and you will learn more. Hopefully you will laugh more.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[danielcroft 2]

The problem we had with the meeker exit was that by the time we broke, we were spinning so much that the tail flew off. I guess everyone having their legs in might help?

Really appreciate the advice everyone, there's so much to learn in skydiving let alone 4 way.

[bliston 0]

A sidebody exit is a much better choice. I have worked with a ton of new teams, and I always suggest that they start with a sidebody. Meekers are difficult to launch without rotating for new jumpers and new teams are almost always able to get to the first point faster from a sidebody vs. a meeker because of that fact. Stairstep is also difficult for the outside center and often gets the inside center diving down the hill instead which can produce the "whip" effect. An alternate exit to the sidebody (perhaps even easier) is a Bow.

Here are pictures that might be helpful and here is a link to an article that also might be helpful.

http://www.collegeskydiving.com/tips-from-the-pros/relative-work/6-4-way-basics

Ben

Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website


sticks!

[rehmwa 2]

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In my experience you are much better off in the long run just trying to launch everything. That is part of the fun, and you will learn more. Hopefully you will laugh more.

damn straight - our first year in 4 way we took the entire pool and tried to learn to launch everything. AND, it was from a little door (King Air). I learned a lot. It was a ton of fun

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[danielcroft 2]

Great advice, thanks everyone!

Satellite (O) exit on the first dive of the last round of the RSL went very well, probably our best yet. We've tried every one so far except the adder IIRC.

[AMax 0]

Ben: looks like your tail has a left hand on the handle and then stitches to take a grip instead or having both grips and head jamming ... interesting

Daniel: learn the dive pool ASAP - this will greatly facilitate the initial progress and make your time with a coach much more productive. You don't want to bring an experienced person for a day of coaching and spend a lot of time listening to what you can easily learn by yourself just by doing some homework on a regular basis.

Edit to add: nice pictures ... it looks like the tail is actually holding on to IC head

[domsdad 0]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but a couple of years ago didn't the NSL institute a few designated formations for the rookies. I'm thinking it was 4 of them. Your draw would always start off with one of those designated formations. I wonder if thats what this individual at the ranch was referring to when they told you only these particular formations. I know they don't do that now.

[danielcroft 2]

It may be something along those lines (4 designated exits). I feel like we've had more than that but I could be wrong.

For the record, I have 52 jumps and had (I think) 30 something when I started on this team. I honestly have enough going on in my head trying to just do anything let alone remember a bunch of letters. I remember some of the names & can picture the formation based on that but the further abstraction is not something I'm finding easy at the moment. I think the main reason I remember the names is because we say them when dirt diving. I guess if we said the letters instead of the names that would help me learn

I certainly understand how that would save time but doing these four ways is about the limit of my abilities in terms of overloading mentally. I don't want to add an additional factor to that. Doing the RSL has really pushed my limits and is something, in retrospect, I wouldn't have done had I known this. Obviously, the more practice I get, the better I'm going to deal with the mental effort but brain fade is not something I want to tempt while skydiving at my level of experience. Tunnel time definitely helps me in free fall so I think I fly well above my jump numbers (that's what I've been told anyway) but that doesn't mean I'm ready for the mental workout of being on a serious 4 way team.

We have one round remaining (I'm comfortable doing it), after that, I'm not sure I'll be on a team next year.

With that said, you guys have really made me feel a little more positive about posting stuff on dz.com. Often it seems that you get kicked for sport around here, this thread reminds me more of my dz (that's a good thing!) rather than a school yard. Thanks.

[siddacious 0]

As a member of a Rookie/A team, I would second learning P and E, as was suggested. They give a good mix for long and round formations. We started with E, and stumbled a bit, as it requires some contortions and gymnastics of the OC and Tail, though our problems might have been equally due to learning how to exit properly in the first place. P came relatively quickly (once our IC got the proper grips on me (OC).

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[AMax 0]

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We started with E, and stumbled a bit, as it requires some contortions and gymnastics of the OC and Tail, though our problems might have been equally due to learning how to exit properly in the first place.

Thats probably why some knowledgeable people suggested not to use "E"

[elightle 8]

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...I think the main reason I remember the names is because we say them when dirt diving. I guess if we said the letters instead of the names that would help me learn

Say the letters AND the names each time you dirt dive and at home when you mentally dirt dive.

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...Doing the RSL has really pushed my limits and is something, in retrospect, I wouldn't have done had I known this...

Why not? You've experienced the pressure of competition and you're asking for help. Sounds like you're doing just fine.

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We have one round remaining (I'm comfortable doing it), after that, I'm not sure I'll be on a team next year.

Aw, stop your whining

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With that said, you guys have really made me feel a little more positive about posting stuff on dz.com. Often it seems that you get kicked for sport around here, this thread reminds me more of my dz (that's a good thing!) rather than a school yard. Thanks.

As you can tell, most skydivers want to help you succeed.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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One of my team members said he was told that rookie teams are only supposed to do 4 randoms out of the door.

Your buddy's statement is outdated... for awhile the rookie class would rotate through 4 exits. I believe they were Meeker, Star, Sidebody, and Satellite. For whatever reason, it's been changed, and all 16 points are used as exits.

Only learning a couple exits is a valid approach. E is the one that's always named (because it's useful and easy to transition to many other formations) but I honestly find it to be one of the tougher exits. H is a good one because it's easy and is a longer formation, which can help if you're transitioning to something like an A, C, or G. If I had to pick two to nail down, I'd pick E and H... if the E gives you a lot of problems (they tend to spin, and they tend to require a strong OC and tail), I'd say work on the B until you're nailing them, and then work on the E later.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[danielcroft 2]

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Why not? You've experienced the pressure of competition and you're asking for help. Sounds like you're doing just fine.

Actually, it's the amount of mental energy it takes me on a dive that I'm concerned about. I'm a pretty competitive guy, if I let myself be. I'm not in this case though. That's part of the reason I joined the team in the first place. There's only one rookie team in the RSL.

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Aw, stop your whining

I've only got 58 jumps, what else can I do?

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As you can tell, most skydivers want to help you succeed.

It's very cool of you guys.

Oh, I was in a 2 point 10 way over the weekend, that was a laugh.

[jmpwme 0]

I may be late to the party, but if you are intersted in scoring points, as opposed to learning, and want the best transition exits that are close to bullet proof, Ben is correct. Launch the P (sidebody) or the H (bow).

If you want to work in the tunnel effectively, learn the letters (randoms) and the numbers (blocks).

Steve
GT