Canopy Size

[redtwiga 0]

I have 91 jumps and am on the hunt for a main. My container holds up to a 150 (a 160 is VERY tight) which I'm perfectly comfortable on. I have access right now to a safire 139 that i have jumped 3 times, all in high winds. The last time I jumped it, I was warned by many people who I respect that my jump numbers are too low to be jumping this canopy. (My exit weight is about 155.) I am aware of the sizing discrepancies with safires. A number of other people who I've subsequently talked to have said that this canopy is not too small, if I feel comfortable on it. I am a conservative canopy pilot (if you can call someone with my experience level that) and I'm VERY eager to have one canopy that I stay on for a while and really get to know well. I've been fine on it so far, but I had wind softening my landings. I'm a bit torn. I know that a smaller canopy leaves less leeway for error, but I feel also like I won't have room for error on ANY canopy I don't get to know well. I am comfortable on this main and really like it, but I'd rather not get hurt right before the summer. I've been through many rental and borrowed mains and need to come to a decision on this matter. Any words of wisdom?

[skygod7777 0]

hey man, we can tell ya what to fly. because we haven't seen you fly your canopy. so i would listen to the instructors, or higher rated, or respected people at the dz. that would be the best idea.

later

[rgoper 0]

Go Here

this topic has been beaten to death. your profile doesn't mention jump numbers, yet you say you have 91 in your post. you have many jumps ahead of you, i don't know what you've been flying, except for the safire 139 you have 3 jumps on, but be careful.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[redtwiga 0]

Right. Subject beaten to death. Guess I'll look into old threads then. My confusion stems from having been told varying things by experienced jumpers all of whom know me and who I respect. What I've jumped in the past:
2 different Safire 169's
Crossfire 149
Sabre2 150
Omega 160
Sabre 170
That's all I can think of right now. I'm just checking to see if there's a reigning consensus, safety-wise....

[rgoper 0]

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I'm just checking to see if there's a reigning consensus, safety-wise....

i kind of suspected that, my reasoning for my posting that thread from "Swooping And Canopy Control" you will find a lot of good information in that thread. generally a 1:1 will suffice until your comfortable. what bothers me, is in 91 jumps you've jumped a wealth of different canopies, thus not giving yourself adequate time to become acclaimated to one canopy long enough to progress. be safe.

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[skybytch 259]

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The last time I jumped it, I was warned by many people who I respect that my jump numbers are too low to be jumping this canopy.

Listen to them. They like you and want you to continue jumping without having titanium and other exotic metals implanted in your bones.

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I am comfortable on this main

You've jumped it three times, all in high winds. Unless all three jumps were high hopnpops you have maybe 15 minutes total flying time under it, and only three landings. There's no possible way you can be really "comfortable" on it - you haven't jumped it in any conditions other than high winds. You know nothing about how that canopy will fly and land in no winds.

On a very windy day, I'd probably feel comfortable jumping a Safire 139 (I normally jump a Spectre 170). Would I be comfortable jumping that same canopy into someone's backyard on a no wind day? Not a chance. That bad spot on a no wind day is the situation you want to consider when deciding on what canopy to buy. Think you could land that Safire 139 safely under those conditions?

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I'm VERY eager to have one canopy that I stay on for a while and really get to know well.

That's a good idea. Get one sized so you can make mistakes under it and still walk back to the packing area, because in the process of really getting to know a canopy well you WILL make mistakes under it.

[masher 1]

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I am comfortable on this main

You've jumped it three times, all in high winds.

I think he (she?) was refering to the 150...

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[skybytch 259]

Read it again. I think the main s/he is referring to being "comfortable" with is the Safire 139.

[redtwiga 0]

er, i was actually referring to the 139. however, i acknowledge (and acknowledged in my first post) that i've only jumped it 3 times, in high winds. i also read the thread that roger recommended and it said there that until you have at least 200 jumps you shouldn't load your canopy above 1.1-1.3. well, i load the 139 at 1.1. i guess the issue is that this is a real borderline case. i'm pretty sure, though, at this point, that i will get a 150 simply because of the enormous amount of shit i'll get if anything does go wrong under the 139, be it my fault or not. i'm a chick, by the way.

[skybytch 259]

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well, i load the 139 at 1.1

If you figure in the sizing differences between an original Safire and an equivalent PD canopy, that 139 is more like 130 sq ft, which pushes your loading closer to 1.2. The PD website appears to be down at the moment, but there's an excellent article on there regarding why a 1.2 wingloading on a 135 may be riskier than the same wingloading on a 230.

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i'm pretty sure, though, at this point, that i will get a 150 simply because of the enormous amount of shit i'll get if anything does go wrong under the 139, be it my fault or not.

A better reason to go for the 150 would be that you can likely make small mistakes under it and still walk back to the packing area. That's the canopy to learn all about canopy flight on - the one you can screw up under and have a reasonable expectation of jumping again the same day.

[Ron 7]

Look at the fatality reports from last year...

Someone please put the URL up...I don't have it, and wouldn't know how to add it if I did.

Anyway the largest segment of people who died last year were under good canopies....The average # of jumps and wingload? 300 jumps with a 1.5.

You can always jump tomorrow if you don't die today.

I helped hold a guys leg together on his 100th jump when he was jumping a canopy that some people told him was to small.

Two broken bones, a skin graft, and a 107,000 medical bill later...he said "I wish I didn't jump that canopy, but I felt OK with it."

Get the bigger canopy and be safe.

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[redtwiga 0]

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I helped hold a guys leg together on his 100th jump when he was jumping a canopy that some people told him was to small.

Two broken bones, a skin graft, and a 107,000 medical bill later...he said "I wish I didn't jump that canopy, but I felt OK with it."

yeah, i bought his javelin. ok. thanks everyone. i'll go big.

a.

[Ron 7]

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Replying to:
Re: [Ron] Canopy Size by redtwiga
Post:

In Reply To



I helped hold a guys leg together on his 100th jump when he was jumping a canopy
that some people told him was to small.

Two broken bones, a skin graft, and a 107,000 medical bill later...he said "I wish I
didn't jump that canopy, but I felt OK with it."



yeah, i bought his javelin. ok. thanks everyone. i'll go big.

No, No, No....It's "You die we split your gear"

Not "break yourself and I'll get a good deal"

Ron

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[redtwiga 0]

[ianmdrennan 2]

Hi All,

Although the question above has already been answered I was wondering if I'm the only one out there who gets really pissed when the "if it's loaded 1:1 it's ok" gets brought up?

We had a 100 pound woman, with about 100 jumps or less, at our dropzone be told by various "well respected" staff and jumpers that buying a 120 would be ok cause it was less than 1:1. Personally I think the 1:1 wingloading argument loses validity as the canopy gets smaller...a 120 is still a 120, and remember not too long ago a 107 was one of the smallest canopies on the market...anyway I digress. After many heated arguments with them (and some quiet time with her on the side), she was convinced to get the 120, against my better judgement.

3 weeks later she was in hospital and a fair bit shorter, after jumping on a windy day with a bad spot and hammered herself into the ground trying to do a 180 into the wind (why people are so scared of a plf I'll never know). Doc's recon she'll limp for the rest of her life and skydivers on hand recon she's damn lucky to be alive.

So, my question/point, am I off my rocker or are people just becoming desensitized by smaller canopies? I guess I think I'm just starting to see a mindset of a 120/135 isn't considered small cause of the pocket rockets out there.

Something else too.....why get a 120/135 if a 150 is working just fine for you and you don't swoop, it just doesn't make any sense to me.

O well, enough of that rant....just wanted to get it out of my system.

Blue skies
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[PhreeZone 15]

Check out the paper on PD's website explaining how things just don't scale. Ie 1:1 on a 230 is less proformance then 1:1 on a 120.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Kris 0]

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Check out the paper on PD's website explaining how things just don't scale. Ie 1:1 on a 230 is less proformance then 1:1 on a 120.

Exactly. I jump my Stiletto 190 at 1.35:1 but I really wouldn't want to jump a Stiletto 120 at that same wing-loading with my current experience level.

Big speed & performance difference...

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[redtwiga 0]

I completely appreciate what you're saying about canopy size being important independent of the weight of the jumper, the smaller it gets. no, i don't swoop, the reason it was at all an issue for me (and i didn't mention this earlier b/c i know it's no reason, but it is for me, right now) is that i was loaned the safire 139 indefinitely, meaning i would not have to spend the money on my own main. that said, safety is more important and i am going to invest in a 150. point taken. i would like to mention, though, that i weigh 130-135 and when i was a student many experienced jumpers said i should be jumping 135 by 100 jumps. perhaps people are looking too much at actual weight instead of exit weight. what was that woman's exit weight?

a.