RW questions - forward movement, fall speed, etc

[chrismgtis 0]

I have a few questions as I'm just curious how some of you accomplish several freefall maneuvers yourself. I haven't had a whole lot of practice and I plan on doing more 1-on-1 RW to get better. I've done a lot of solos and high pulls which are what most of my jumps consisted of.

Stability, turns and tracking are no problem. What I find that I'm not very good at is flat tracking towards another jumper (increase horizontal speed). That is the main thing that I want to work on.

I jumped this weekend with a friend who falls a lot faster than I do. We exited the CASA, and I immediately went into a track towards him. Then when I got much closer horizontally I raised my arms and legs up to fall faster, but never caught up with him.

How do YOU do the following. What have you found to work the best for you so that I can attempt these things to see if something works better for me.

- flat track (example: to dock)
- increase/decrease fall rate
- track steeper/track with faster descent

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[NeedToJump 0]

Your best bet is going to be to work on these things with a coach and get some tunnel time. AAC is in Waynesville, N.C. Paraclete XP is opening soon in Raeford, NC. Those are probably the two closest tunnels to you. If you get to Florida let me know and I can help you out at SkyVenture Orlando


I don't understand what you're asking about the flat track. If you're trying to get to a formation to dock on it, typically you're going to dive down to it, not flat track. You would use a flat track at the end of a dive to get away from everyone.

The way the I flat track away from a formation is: I de-arch as I turn out from the formation, I extend my legs completely (I actually press them down a little bit beyond being completely flat) and bring my arms to my sides. I turn my shoulders in to cup air as well. Think of making your body shape look like an otter wing. I'd recommend starting in a delta and gradually de-arching, extending your legs and bringing your arms in to your sides so you keep stability and heading.


Fall rate: 90% controlled with the hips. To fall faster push your hips down or better yet, breathe and relax and let the wind pushing against you arch for you. Arching is a LOT easier than most people think because you really can just let the wind do it for you by simply relaxing and breathing.

To fall slower, de-arch by trying to make your body from your knees to chest look like the letter C. Picture a string connected to the small of your back being pulled upward. It also looks kind of like a dog when it's humping someone's leg.

Both of the above are done using your hips. Once you get your hips working, then add in the arms and legs to find your extremes. For faster fall rate bring the arms and legs in. For slower fall rate extend your arms and legs straight out so your legs are doing a forward motion and your arms are doing a backward motion so you stay in place. This is MUCH more effective than "hugging the beach ball." These are both in addition to using your hips.

Again, 90% of your fall rate is controlled with your hips so focus on that. Getting in the tunnel is (IMO) the best way to work on your fall rate.


Track steeper: there are a number of ways to do this depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Jump with a coach so you can see the difference. To dive down to a big way as a late diver I will get in a flat track-style body position and push my head and upper body down to create a steeper angle. I aim to stop about 10 feet above the formation and a decent distance back (depending on the size of the formation) because you want to be moving slowly and predictably when you get close to a large formation.

To keep the same descent rate but decrease your forward speed you can bend your knees in or bend your arms at the elbows.


Talk to a coach about all of this and jump with a coach so you have a reference to see what's happening. That and get in a tunnel

Wind Tunnel and Skydiving Coach http://www.ariperelman.com

[wildfan75 1]

How tall are you? And what kind of suit do you have and what is it made of?

I see you're at a 1.07 WL on a 175, so you're about 190ish exit weight, so about 165 neekid. Your height is going to play a big part in what kind of suit you need. We have guys on our dz that are around 6' +/- 1-2" at that weight and some of them fall like stryofoam. If you're around that jumping a baggy jumpsuit made of polycotton you're going to fall slow and have a hard time to catch up.

Tell us more about what kind of suit you're jumping and also what is the suit made of, and how tall/weight the person you were jumping with.

As for "finding a coach to jump with"...I hope that you'll be able to find someone to help you without charging you their jump, their pack job, their time and a little for their pocket. That's an expensive and bull$hit way to figure it out.

Tunnel time would be good. I'm a fast faller and I learned more of a mantis position in the tunnel to help slow my fall rate.

Spend plenty of time at the dz during after hours or non-jumping times (and bring some beer). It will cost you less in the long run.

[chrismgtis 0]

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Talk to a coach about all of this and jump with a coach so you have a reference to see what's happening. That and get in a tunnel

I have a few times. I just usually get mainly the same answers. Not that I haven't done what I've been told to try, it's just that I haven't jumped a lot with others that weren't staying in proximity themselves (I didn't have to do any of the work).

In AFF I was able to do these things, but obviously I didn't do them extremely well cause I didn't have the experience.

I know it's hard to explain techniques since you can't physically show them to me. Most of what you talked about I believe I already do.

The guy I jumped with jumps a 230 so he weighs more than I and falls a lot faster. I'm not really sure what my fall rate is, but I believe he said he can fall at about 150 belly to earth. We jumped this weekend for fun and weren't intending on staying with each other, but we gave it a try to see what would happen and I was just curious if anyone had any thoughts on getting to a fast faller quickly.

I jump with a Bevsuit, ordered specifically for me so it isn't very loose. It's mostly made of nylon. Lately I haven't been wearing a suit most of the time.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[stayhigh 2]

This just sounds skatchy..

We jumped this weekend for fun and weren't intending on staying with each other, but we gave it a try to see what would happen

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[Remster 24]

You get better jumping with people by jumping with people. Get a mentor, a coach, a budy, and practice.

If you can afford it and want to invest more time and energy and money, get tunnel coaching.

Remster

[shermanator 3]

Best is to jump with others, try jumping with the newly licensed divers, you'll learn a LOT. .. as for flat track, do you mean to max forward movement if you are level with the person, but need to get close? If that being the case, try bringing your arms in a little, and extending your legs.. not just extending them, but feeling a positive pressure on them.. feeling like you are almost pushing down with your legs. .. As well, you can try dipping your hand *from the wrist* down a little bit, I've found that that gives a little extra push. Hope that helps.

Oh, and my answer may be a bunch of bs that doesnt work, I'm not too experienced myself,... so, better not listen to my advise

CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720

[Suavel 0]

The "flat track" he keeps talking about is just moving forward.

Easiest way (for me): stick out your legs.

[J.9 0]

Hi Chris,
My name is Janine and I jump out at Chester. Anytime you want to work on drills let me know. I would be more than happy to jump with you. I always can use more drill dives. Just let me know.

Janine

[chrismgtis 0]

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This just sounds skatchy..

We jumped this weekend for fun and weren't intending on staying with each other, but we gave it a try to see what would happen

lol that is how you learn.

We didn't intend on staying with each other because we were pretty sure we couldn't. He's falls much faster than I do and were both not that experienced.

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Hi Chris,
My name is Janine and I jump out at Chester. Anytime you want to work on drills let me know. I would be more than happy to jump with you. I always can use more drill dives. Just let me know.

Janine

Sure thing. Flag me down if you know me by face. Are you at the DZ regularly? I'm not sure if I've met you or not.

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The "flat track" he keeps talking about is just moving forward.

Easiest way (for me): stick out your legs.

Well this is one reason I asked this question on here. I do that and I get some movement, but it's not as much as I want. I do most of what people have said to try in this post, but I want a faster forward movement.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[J.9 0]

Yeah I am out most weekends. I was jumping on the Carolina Curves, but I have resigned from that so I have more time now. If you know Louis..... I am always with him....

[rehmwa 2]

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Easiest way (for me): stick out your legs

...I do that and I get some movement, but it's not as much as I want. .....I want a faster forward movement.

If you have a nice narrow stance, and your chest is up high and your legs already out, try this:

Press your arms in front of you - palms down, spread your hands and also push down and cup with them too, straight arms, pointed forward and down (seriously down, like 45 degree down angle). That'll give you a boost (it deflects the air behind you - same as you legs do). "Feel" the air and redirect it, don't just strike some pose and hope it works. If you want to go forward, you have to push the air behind you with whatever you've got.

Then you just need to figure out how to use it during RW. (means same effect without such a dramatic move - you still have to be able to take grips)

Forward and backward motion are big moves, and really a LOT of fun when you get the mechanics going.

A couple tunnel camps (mantis, Airspeed style curriculum) will really help.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Booster_MPS 0]

Here is a suggestion on increasing fall rate that I tried for the first time this past weekend that works great – you wont use it in an RW jump but it helps you get down quick if you are chasing somebody down. It is just an alternative to simply arching harder.

Fold you wings in! Simply bring your arms in under your body by first making fists with your hands, and then tuck the fists under your collar bone in the center of your body. Just let your forearms align along the center of your body as well. Keep your head up as this will keep you from tilting head down. Head out on a two way and try it diving after somebody out the door. As soon as you get off the hill, tuck your wings and you will feel the increase in speed as you drop.

One rookie to another – good luck!

Oh, and although I do a ton of RW, I am addicted to my high pulls at 11,000!!!!!!!!

[chrismgtis 0]

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One rookie to another – good luck!

Oh, and although I do a ton of RW, I am addicted to my high pulls at 11,000!!!!!!!!

I will try that and see what happens.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan

[druspork 0]

Now there's some tunnel experience talking (tell me I'm wrong). It doesnt just happen from the hands though, secret is to feel the wind.

Oh, get on the air with guys who have a chance of working out what is going on. Looks like you have offers on this thread - take 'em up.

Dru

[countzero 7]

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I'm not really sure what my fall rate is

try jumping with someones digital altimeter that tells freefall speeds to check your fall rate. or jump with someone who has one that can stay on level with you. this will give you a base line so you can know which way you need to adjust.

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[chrismgtis 0]

I got in a few "RW" jumps this past weekend at the boogie and played around. This time adjusting fall rate actually worked very well, so I was able to see that what I was doing really worked. The guy I jumped with was about the same size as me. The other week I was jumping with someone much bigger than me and I just couldn't catch up.

Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033
Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan