billbooth 10 #1 February 5, 2003 Pictures of the new Skyhook RSL in action are up at http://www.relativeworkshop.com. Click on news Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygod7777 0 #2 February 5, 2003 make it clicky bill http://www.relativeworkshop.com/main.html edit: made it go staight into the site later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #3 February 5, 2003 Check this out from... it's a video of a Sorcerer in . It's a good video. It's Skyhook LIKE and it's origins are...well..... read Bills response below. it's 1.34 megs so it doesn't take too long to downoad. You can play it or save it to hard drive and play it by... Rt Click the link and save as, Then you can play it when ever you feel like. Quick time is needed. ftp://ftp.skydivingmovies.com/public/base/sorcerer.mov EnjoyMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #4 February 5, 2003 hookit; I first started working on the Skyhook system over 15 years ago. Mark and Marta (who make the Sorcerer) were working for me during my early tests of "Skyhook-like" systems. The Sorcerer system system is really an outgrowth of those early Relative Workshop tests. I didn't put it on the market earlier, because I couldn't yet solve the automatic release problem, which must be solved before you can use such a system on the internal, spring-loaded pilot chute reserve system we all use. (The Sorcerer use an external, hand deploy pilot chute on the reserve.) We will post the video on the Skyhook as soon as we can get it compressed enough to download. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites murrays 0 #5 February 5, 2003 That is very ingenious and cool Bill. I really want to see one up close to see how this works.I'd like to see photos of a reserve deployment without a cutaway. Do you have any for the website?Any plans to licence the Skyhook to other rig manufacturers? I am wondering if it is going to become as ubiquitous as throw-outs and 3-rings. First impression is that it is a huge safety improvement...that should be as widely available as possible.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #6 February 5, 2003 Bill Actually I was informed about that in a different post. I knew there was some corelation to RWS and the scorcerer but failed to research what it was. My apoligies. Thanks for posting the Background to where that Techoligy comes from.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jayhfx 0 #7 February 6, 2003 Bill, very cool system. Does the reserve freebag stay attached to the main? Alot easier to find one component.. thanks jay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TitaniumLegs 8 #8 February 6, 2003 Neat stuff. I noticed in the spinning mal pictures, the jumper is face-down when he chopped. Do you have any tests results or photos of chopping from a "twisting" mal, as in a Spinetto, or other back-to-earth scenario? The other thing I don't see is the pin puller part of the RSL. Is that the same as current implementations? Thanks Peter (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #9 February 6, 2003 The freebag stays attached more often than I would like. I make quite a good living replacing lost free bags, and I'm scared the skyhook is going to cost me more than it makes.QuoteBill, very cool system. Does the reserve freebag stay attached to the main? Alot easier to find one component.. thanks jayQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #10 February 6, 2003 The system works just as well if you are back to earth at breakaway, but I don't have any good pictures yet. They are real hard to set up when the test jumper can't see where he is going. It makes the photographer very nervious too. The pin puller and opposite riser breakaway device are the same as on any Sigma tandem rig.QuoteNeat stuff. I noticed in the spinning mal pictures, the jumper is face-down when he chopped. Do you have any tests results or photos of chopping from a "twisting" mal, as in a Spinetto, or other back-to-earth scenario? The other thing I don't see is the pin puller part of the RSL. Is that the same as current implementations? Thanks PeterQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jayhfx 0 #11 February 6, 2003 Thats funny, but to be honest a nice feature for those of us in heavy forested areas. Can't wait to see more. jay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #12 February 6, 2003 (quote)I'd like to see photos of a reserve deployment without a cutaway. Do you have any for the website? (reply)There is nothing to see. In a total malfunction, the Skyhook releases instantly and therefore has no effect on the reserve deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ruffles 0 #13 February 6, 2003 This thing looks friggin' awesome Bill. That whole RSL debate has been in the back of my mind on every jump. This alleviates that anxiety. How long before I can get one for my Mirage? .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #14 February 6, 2003 Sorry. It's too soon to answer when the Skyhook will be available on other rigs. Although I'm sure I will license it to other manufacturers sooner or later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #15 February 6, 2003 Quoteedit: made it go staight into the site Even better Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #16 February 6, 2003 How do you do that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygod7777 0 #17 February 6, 2003 how the hell did you do that. i tried to take to staight to that page, but it wouldn't let me later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #18 February 6, 2003 http://www.relativeworkshop.com/sales/pdt_skyhook.html plus adding the url tags. ------I finally got to surf the site. That's some really cool stuff.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KellyF 16 #19 February 6, 2003 Quotehookit; I first started working on the Skyhook system over 15 years ago. Mark and Marta (who make the Sorcerer) were working for me during my early tests of "Skyhook-like" systems. The Sorcerer system system is really an outgrowth of those early Relative Workshop tests. I didn't put it on the market earlier, because I couldn't yet solve the automatic release problem, which must be solved before you can use such a system on the internal, spring-loaded pilot chute reserve system we all use. (The Sorcerer use an external, hand deploy pilot chute on the reserve.) We will post the video on the Skyhook as soon as we can get it compressed enough to download. Bill, I don't know exactly when you started on this system, but Mark had already jumped his system at Z-Hills several months (at least) BEFORE he and Marta were employed at RWS in 1990 (you can check your employee records). The only difference I can see between this system and the one you "abandoned" about 10 years ago (I never got a close look at it) is the addition of the Collins Lanyard. It is a notable improvement, but I don't see a rash of solo jumpers with broken risers. So that begs the question, why is it such a breakthrough now? I think it does have merit for use on Tandems and some very specialized applications, but I don't see it as a "save all" for every jumper. One other question- how do you pin check the system? I don't think there is any way to make sure the system is hooked up properly after it is packed. FWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drenaline 0 #20 February 6, 2003 To get to the page outside the frame is right click "open in new browser", copy paste URL and post it with the url markup to make it clicky. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ruffles 0 #21 February 6, 2003 Ok, not to keep pestering you about the time line on licensing Bill, but are we talking months or years before this will be available to those of us with other-than-RWS containers? (can't wait can't wait). Thx P.S. "begging the question" means to apply circular logic to a discussion, not a discussion that is begging for a question to be asked. Blue ones .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #22 February 6, 2003 QuoteFWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is. Maybe so but It still kicks ass and the develpement of the system seems to be a very plausable and probable asset to the skydiving community. Honestly I'll probably never have one (I say that now....), but I'd sure like see my students using something like that. Time will tell By the way Kelly, thanks for the Quick info about stainless.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #23 February 6, 2003 Kelly; I first starting playing around with this idea in about 1984. (I thought you saw the videos of early tests at symposium.) The problem I came across then, and which was still not solved before the Skyhook, is the problem of automatic release in the case of a main total malfunction. The Sorcerer system is designed for an external hand deployed reserve pilot chute system, and can only be released by pulling the pilot chute out of the pouch. It's a great system for base jumping, but if you used it on a normal internal spring-loaded pilot chute reserve (like we all jump), you would have a reserve horse shoe malfunction if your Cypres went off, or your reserve closing loop broke. I would not sell this system without the Collin's lanyard because even one broken RSL riser without it (and there have been two this year I have heard about) would probably be fatal. And even one preventable fatality is too many. Besides, risers don't have to break...misrigged risers prematurely release all the time. The main advantage of this system (aside from its speed) is that it gives the average jumper a good reason to use an RSL. And that alone will save lives...24 in the last 10 years in the US alone. As for pin checking...The system is very securely locked when you close your reserve container. This is but one of the problems I had to solve to make it practical. But even if it did come unhooked during the pack cycle, your reserve would still function just like it would if the Skyhook weren't there. As to whether cutting reserve deployment time in half for skydivers is revolutionary...well, I'll let others decide...but personally, I think it's kinda neat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #24 February 6, 2003 *** Bill, I don't know exactly when you started on this system, but Mark had already jumped his system at Z-Hills several months (at least) BEFORE he and Marta were employed at RWS in 1990 (you can check your employee records). The only difference I can see between this system and the one you "abandoned" about 10 years ago (I never got a close look at it) is the addition of the Collins Lanyard. It is a notable improvement, but I don't see a rash of solo jumpers with broken risers. So that begs the question, why is it such a breakthrough now? I think it does have merit for use on Tandems and some very specialized applications, but I don't see it as a "save all" for every jumper. One other question- how do you pin check the system? I don't think there is any way to make sure the system is hooked up properly after it is packed. FWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is.Quote Take a good look at the system, you will see a lot of difference, as Bill already mentioned exactly, how a sorcerer and the skyhook is different. Think about how many people this system could have saved in the past, And also he didn't abandon it like you said, he was trying to figure out a way to implement the skyhook with use of a spring loaded Pc, which couldn't be used with the sorcerer design. Also the collins lanyard isn't totally neccessary but it does help in the event of a horseshoe with a cutaway, where the riser's dont release at exactly the same time. Also it is another safe guard. And if you look at the V3 with the skyhook it is very easy to check to see if everything is ok. Revolutionary? Dunno. Great idea? I think so, and everyone that this system saves will agree. Also If marta and mark have an issue with who designed it first Im sure they will let us know. Blue ones. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #25 February 6, 2003 I honestly don't know when I'll be able to license it. First other manufacturers will pooh-pooh it. Then they'll try to get around the patent with their own versions. Only then they will ask to license it. I know. I went through all this years ago with the hand deploy pilot chute and 3-ring release. I can't sell the Skyhook to the user of another rig, because it's part of the reserve system, and the rig manufacturer would have to test, approve, and install it on their own gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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skygod7777 0 #2 February 5, 2003 make it clicky bill http://www.relativeworkshop.com/main.html edit: made it go staight into the site later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #3 February 5, 2003 Check this out from... it's a video of a Sorcerer in . It's a good video. It's Skyhook LIKE and it's origins are...well..... read Bills response below. it's 1.34 megs so it doesn't take too long to downoad. You can play it or save it to hard drive and play it by... Rt Click the link and save as, Then you can play it when ever you feel like. Quick time is needed. ftp://ftp.skydivingmovies.com/public/base/sorcerer.mov EnjoyMy grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #4 February 5, 2003 hookit; I first started working on the Skyhook system over 15 years ago. Mark and Marta (who make the Sorcerer) were working for me during my early tests of "Skyhook-like" systems. The Sorcerer system system is really an outgrowth of those early Relative Workshop tests. I didn't put it on the market earlier, because I couldn't yet solve the automatic release problem, which must be solved before you can use such a system on the internal, spring-loaded pilot chute reserve system we all use. (The Sorcerer use an external, hand deploy pilot chute on the reserve.) We will post the video on the Skyhook as soon as we can get it compressed enough to download. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #5 February 5, 2003 That is very ingenious and cool Bill. I really want to see one up close to see how this works.I'd like to see photos of a reserve deployment without a cutaway. Do you have any for the website?Any plans to licence the Skyhook to other rig manufacturers? I am wondering if it is going to become as ubiquitous as throw-outs and 3-rings. First impression is that it is a huge safety improvement...that should be as widely available as possible.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #6 February 5, 2003 Bill Actually I was informed about that in a different post. I knew there was some corelation to RWS and the scorcerer but failed to research what it was. My apoligies. Thanks for posting the Background to where that Techoligy comes from.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jayhfx 0 #7 February 6, 2003 Bill, very cool system. Does the reserve freebag stay attached to the main? Alot easier to find one component.. thanks jay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TitaniumLegs 8 #8 February 6, 2003 Neat stuff. I noticed in the spinning mal pictures, the jumper is face-down when he chopped. Do you have any tests results or photos of chopping from a "twisting" mal, as in a Spinetto, or other back-to-earth scenario? The other thing I don't see is the pin puller part of the RSL. Is that the same as current implementations? Thanks Peter (>o|-< If you don't believe me, ask me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #9 February 6, 2003 The freebag stays attached more often than I would like. I make quite a good living replacing lost free bags, and I'm scared the skyhook is going to cost me more than it makes.QuoteBill, very cool system. Does the reserve freebag stay attached to the main? Alot easier to find one component.. thanks jayQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #10 February 6, 2003 The system works just as well if you are back to earth at breakaway, but I don't have any good pictures yet. They are real hard to set up when the test jumper can't see where he is going. It makes the photographer very nervious too. The pin puller and opposite riser breakaway device are the same as on any Sigma tandem rig.QuoteNeat stuff. I noticed in the spinning mal pictures, the jumper is face-down when he chopped. Do you have any tests results or photos of chopping from a "twisting" mal, as in a Spinetto, or other back-to-earth scenario? The other thing I don't see is the pin puller part of the RSL. Is that the same as current implementations? Thanks PeterQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jayhfx 0 #11 February 6, 2003 Thats funny, but to be honest a nice feature for those of us in heavy forested areas. Can't wait to see more. jay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #12 February 6, 2003 (quote)I'd like to see photos of a reserve deployment without a cutaway. Do you have any for the website? (reply)There is nothing to see. In a total malfunction, the Skyhook releases instantly and therefore has no effect on the reserve deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ruffles 0 #13 February 6, 2003 This thing looks friggin' awesome Bill. That whole RSL debate has been in the back of my mind on every jump. This alleviates that anxiety. How long before I can get one for my Mirage? .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #14 February 6, 2003 Sorry. It's too soon to answer when the Skyhook will be available on other rigs. Although I'm sure I will license it to other manufacturers sooner or later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #15 February 6, 2003 Quoteedit: made it go staight into the site Even better Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #16 February 6, 2003 How do you do that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygod7777 0 #17 February 6, 2003 how the hell did you do that. i tried to take to staight to that page, but it wouldn't let me later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #18 February 6, 2003 http://www.relativeworkshop.com/sales/pdt_skyhook.html plus adding the url tags. ------I finally got to surf the site. That's some really cool stuff.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KellyF 16 #19 February 6, 2003 Quotehookit; I first started working on the Skyhook system over 15 years ago. Mark and Marta (who make the Sorcerer) were working for me during my early tests of "Skyhook-like" systems. The Sorcerer system system is really an outgrowth of those early Relative Workshop tests. I didn't put it on the market earlier, because I couldn't yet solve the automatic release problem, which must be solved before you can use such a system on the internal, spring-loaded pilot chute reserve system we all use. (The Sorcerer use an external, hand deploy pilot chute on the reserve.) We will post the video on the Skyhook as soon as we can get it compressed enough to download. Bill, I don't know exactly when you started on this system, but Mark had already jumped his system at Z-Hills several months (at least) BEFORE he and Marta were employed at RWS in 1990 (you can check your employee records). The only difference I can see between this system and the one you "abandoned" about 10 years ago (I never got a close look at it) is the addition of the Collins Lanyard. It is a notable improvement, but I don't see a rash of solo jumpers with broken risers. So that begs the question, why is it such a breakthrough now? I think it does have merit for use on Tandems and some very specialized applications, but I don't see it as a "save all" for every jumper. One other question- how do you pin check the system? I don't think there is any way to make sure the system is hooked up properly after it is packed. FWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drenaline 0 #20 February 6, 2003 To get to the page outside the frame is right click "open in new browser", copy paste URL and post it with the url markup to make it clicky. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ruffles 0 #21 February 6, 2003 Ok, not to keep pestering you about the time line on licensing Bill, but are we talking months or years before this will be available to those of us with other-than-RWS containers? (can't wait can't wait). Thx P.S. "begging the question" means to apply circular logic to a discussion, not a discussion that is begging for a question to be asked. Blue ones .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #22 February 6, 2003 QuoteFWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is. Maybe so but It still kicks ass and the develpement of the system seems to be a very plausable and probable asset to the skydiving community. Honestly I'll probably never have one (I say that now....), but I'd sure like see my students using something like that. Time will tell By the way Kelly, thanks for the Quick info about stainless.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #23 February 6, 2003 Kelly; I first starting playing around with this idea in about 1984. (I thought you saw the videos of early tests at symposium.) The problem I came across then, and which was still not solved before the Skyhook, is the problem of automatic release in the case of a main total malfunction. The Sorcerer system is designed for an external hand deployed reserve pilot chute system, and can only be released by pulling the pilot chute out of the pouch. It's a great system for base jumping, but if you used it on a normal internal spring-loaded pilot chute reserve (like we all jump), you would have a reserve horse shoe malfunction if your Cypres went off, or your reserve closing loop broke. I would not sell this system without the Collin's lanyard because even one broken RSL riser without it (and there have been two this year I have heard about) would probably be fatal. And even one preventable fatality is too many. Besides, risers don't have to break...misrigged risers prematurely release all the time. The main advantage of this system (aside from its speed) is that it gives the average jumper a good reason to use an RSL. And that alone will save lives...24 in the last 10 years in the US alone. As for pin checking...The system is very securely locked when you close your reserve container. This is but one of the problems I had to solve to make it practical. But even if it did come unhooked during the pack cycle, your reserve would still function just like it would if the Skyhook weren't there. As to whether cutting reserve deployment time in half for skydivers is revolutionary...well, I'll let others decide...but personally, I think it's kinda neat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #24 February 6, 2003 *** Bill, I don't know exactly when you started on this system, but Mark had already jumped his system at Z-Hills several months (at least) BEFORE he and Marta were employed at RWS in 1990 (you can check your employee records). The only difference I can see between this system and the one you "abandoned" about 10 years ago (I never got a close look at it) is the addition of the Collins Lanyard. It is a notable improvement, but I don't see a rash of solo jumpers with broken risers. So that begs the question, why is it such a breakthrough now? I think it does have merit for use on Tandems and some very specialized applications, but I don't see it as a "save all" for every jumper. One other question- how do you pin check the system? I don't think there is any way to make sure the system is hooked up properly after it is packed. FWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is.Quote Take a good look at the system, you will see a lot of difference, as Bill already mentioned exactly, how a sorcerer and the skyhook is different. Think about how many people this system could have saved in the past, And also he didn't abandon it like you said, he was trying to figure out a way to implement the skyhook with use of a spring loaded Pc, which couldn't be used with the sorcerer design. Also the collins lanyard isn't totally neccessary but it does help in the event of a horseshoe with a cutaway, where the riser's dont release at exactly the same time. Also it is another safe guard. And if you look at the V3 with the skyhook it is very easy to check to see if everything is ok. Revolutionary? Dunno. Great idea? I think so, and everyone that this system saves will agree. Also If marta and mark have an issue with who designed it first Im sure they will let us know. Blue ones. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #25 February 6, 2003 I honestly don't know when I'll be able to license it. First other manufacturers will pooh-pooh it. Then they'll try to get around the patent with their own versions. Only then they will ask to license it. I know. I went through all this years ago with the hand deploy pilot chute and 3-ring release. I can't sell the Skyhook to the user of another rig, because it's part of the reserve system, and the rig manufacturer would have to test, approve, and install it on their own gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
billbooth 10 #10 February 6, 2003 The system works just as well if you are back to earth at breakaway, but I don't have any good pictures yet. They are real hard to set up when the test jumper can't see where he is going. It makes the photographer very nervious too. The pin puller and opposite riser breakaway device are the same as on any Sigma tandem rig.QuoteNeat stuff. I noticed in the spinning mal pictures, the jumper is face-down when he chopped. Do you have any tests results or photos of chopping from a "twisting" mal, as in a Spinetto, or other back-to-earth scenario? The other thing I don't see is the pin puller part of the RSL. Is that the same as current implementations? Thanks PeterQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jayhfx 0 #11 February 6, 2003 Thats funny, but to be honest a nice feature for those of us in heavy forested areas. Can't wait to see more. jay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #12 February 6, 2003 (quote)I'd like to see photos of a reserve deployment without a cutaway. Do you have any for the website? (reply)There is nothing to see. In a total malfunction, the Skyhook releases instantly and therefore has no effect on the reserve deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ruffles 0 #13 February 6, 2003 This thing looks friggin' awesome Bill. That whole RSL debate has been in the back of my mind on every jump. This alleviates that anxiety. How long before I can get one for my Mirage? .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #14 February 6, 2003 Sorry. It's too soon to answer when the Skyhook will be available on other rigs. Although I'm sure I will license it to other manufacturers sooner or later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cpoxon 0 #15 February 6, 2003 Quoteedit: made it go staight into the site Even better Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #16 February 6, 2003 How do you do that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygod7777 0 #17 February 6, 2003 how the hell did you do that. i tried to take to staight to that page, but it wouldn't let me later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #18 February 6, 2003 http://www.relativeworkshop.com/sales/pdt_skyhook.html plus adding the url tags. ------I finally got to surf the site. That's some really cool stuff.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KellyF 16 #19 February 6, 2003 Quotehookit; I first started working on the Skyhook system over 15 years ago. Mark and Marta (who make the Sorcerer) were working for me during my early tests of "Skyhook-like" systems. The Sorcerer system system is really an outgrowth of those early Relative Workshop tests. I didn't put it on the market earlier, because I couldn't yet solve the automatic release problem, which must be solved before you can use such a system on the internal, spring-loaded pilot chute reserve system we all use. (The Sorcerer use an external, hand deploy pilot chute on the reserve.) We will post the video on the Skyhook as soon as we can get it compressed enough to download. Bill, I don't know exactly when you started on this system, but Mark had already jumped his system at Z-Hills several months (at least) BEFORE he and Marta were employed at RWS in 1990 (you can check your employee records). The only difference I can see between this system and the one you "abandoned" about 10 years ago (I never got a close look at it) is the addition of the Collins Lanyard. It is a notable improvement, but I don't see a rash of solo jumpers with broken risers. So that begs the question, why is it such a breakthrough now? I think it does have merit for use on Tandems and some very specialized applications, but I don't see it as a "save all" for every jumper. One other question- how do you pin check the system? I don't think there is any way to make sure the system is hooked up properly after it is packed. FWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drenaline 0 #20 February 6, 2003 To get to the page outside the frame is right click "open in new browser", copy paste URL and post it with the url markup to make it clicky. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ruffles 0 #21 February 6, 2003 Ok, not to keep pestering you about the time line on licensing Bill, but are we talking months or years before this will be available to those of us with other-than-RWS containers? (can't wait can't wait). Thx P.S. "begging the question" means to apply circular logic to a discussion, not a discussion that is begging for a question to be asked. Blue ones .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites hookitt 0 #22 February 6, 2003 QuoteFWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is. Maybe so but It still kicks ass and the develpement of the system seems to be a very plausable and probable asset to the skydiving community. Honestly I'll probably never have one (I say that now....), but I'd sure like see my students using something like that. Time will tell By the way Kelly, thanks for the Quick info about stainless.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #23 February 6, 2003 Kelly; I first starting playing around with this idea in about 1984. (I thought you saw the videos of early tests at symposium.) The problem I came across then, and which was still not solved before the Skyhook, is the problem of automatic release in the case of a main total malfunction. The Sorcerer system is designed for an external hand deployed reserve pilot chute system, and can only be released by pulling the pilot chute out of the pouch. It's a great system for base jumping, but if you used it on a normal internal spring-loaded pilot chute reserve (like we all jump), you would have a reserve horse shoe malfunction if your Cypres went off, or your reserve closing loop broke. I would not sell this system without the Collin's lanyard because even one broken RSL riser without it (and there have been two this year I have heard about) would probably be fatal. And even one preventable fatality is too many. Besides, risers don't have to break...misrigged risers prematurely release all the time. The main advantage of this system (aside from its speed) is that it gives the average jumper a good reason to use an RSL. And that alone will save lives...24 in the last 10 years in the US alone. As for pin checking...The system is very securely locked when you close your reserve container. This is but one of the problems I had to solve to make it practical. But even if it did come unhooked during the pack cycle, your reserve would still function just like it would if the Skyhook weren't there. As to whether cutting reserve deployment time in half for skydivers is revolutionary...well, I'll let others decide...but personally, I think it's kinda neat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rdutch 0 #24 February 6, 2003 *** Bill, I don't know exactly when you started on this system, but Mark had already jumped his system at Z-Hills several months (at least) BEFORE he and Marta were employed at RWS in 1990 (you can check your employee records). The only difference I can see between this system and the one you "abandoned" about 10 years ago (I never got a close look at it) is the addition of the Collins Lanyard. It is a notable improvement, but I don't see a rash of solo jumpers with broken risers. So that begs the question, why is it such a breakthrough now? I think it does have merit for use on Tandems and some very specialized applications, but I don't see it as a "save all" for every jumper. One other question- how do you pin check the system? I don't think there is any way to make sure the system is hooked up properly after it is packed. FWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is.Quote Take a good look at the system, you will see a lot of difference, as Bill already mentioned exactly, how a sorcerer and the skyhook is different. Think about how many people this system could have saved in the past, And also he didn't abandon it like you said, he was trying to figure out a way to implement the skyhook with use of a spring loaded Pc, which couldn't be used with the sorcerer design. Also the collins lanyard isn't totally neccessary but it does help in the event of a horseshoe with a cutaway, where the riser's dont release at exactly the same time. Also it is another safe guard. And if you look at the V3 with the skyhook it is very easy to check to see if everything is ok. Revolutionary? Dunno. Great idea? I think so, and everyone that this system saves will agree. Also If marta and mark have an issue with who designed it first Im sure they will let us know. Blue ones. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billbooth 10 #25 February 6, 2003 I honestly don't know when I'll be able to license it. First other manufacturers will pooh-pooh it. Then they'll try to get around the patent with their own versions. Only then they will ask to license it. I know. I went through all this years ago with the hand deploy pilot chute and 3-ring release. I can't sell the Skyhook to the user of another rig, because it's part of the reserve system, and the rig manufacturer would have to test, approve, and install it on their own gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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jayhfx 0 #11 February 6, 2003 Thats funny, but to be honest a nice feature for those of us in heavy forested areas. Can't wait to see more. jay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #12 February 6, 2003 (quote)I'd like to see photos of a reserve deployment without a cutaway. Do you have any for the website? (reply)There is nothing to see. In a total malfunction, the Skyhook releases instantly and therefore has no effect on the reserve deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruffles 0 #13 February 6, 2003 This thing looks friggin' awesome Bill. That whole RSL debate has been in the back of my mind on every jump. This alleviates that anxiety. How long before I can get one for my Mirage? .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #14 February 6, 2003 Sorry. It's too soon to answer when the Skyhook will be available on other rigs. Although I'm sure I will license it to other manufacturers sooner or later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #15 February 6, 2003 Quoteedit: made it go staight into the site Even better Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #16 February 6, 2003 How do you do that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #17 February 6, 2003 how the hell did you do that. i tried to take to staight to that page, but it wouldn't let me later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #18 February 6, 2003 http://www.relativeworkshop.com/sales/pdt_skyhook.html plus adding the url tags. ------I finally got to surf the site. That's some really cool stuff.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KellyF 16 #19 February 6, 2003 Quotehookit; I first started working on the Skyhook system over 15 years ago. Mark and Marta (who make the Sorcerer) were working for me during my early tests of "Skyhook-like" systems. The Sorcerer system system is really an outgrowth of those early Relative Workshop tests. I didn't put it on the market earlier, because I couldn't yet solve the automatic release problem, which must be solved before you can use such a system on the internal, spring-loaded pilot chute reserve system we all use. (The Sorcerer use an external, hand deploy pilot chute on the reserve.) We will post the video on the Skyhook as soon as we can get it compressed enough to download. Bill, I don't know exactly when you started on this system, but Mark had already jumped his system at Z-Hills several months (at least) BEFORE he and Marta were employed at RWS in 1990 (you can check your employee records). The only difference I can see between this system and the one you "abandoned" about 10 years ago (I never got a close look at it) is the addition of the Collins Lanyard. It is a notable improvement, but I don't see a rash of solo jumpers with broken risers. So that begs the question, why is it such a breakthrough now? I think it does have merit for use on Tandems and some very specialized applications, but I don't see it as a "save all" for every jumper. One other question- how do you pin check the system? I don't think there is any way to make sure the system is hooked up properly after it is packed. FWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #20 February 6, 2003 To get to the page outside the frame is right click "open in new browser", copy paste URL and post it with the url markup to make it clicky. HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruffles 0 #21 February 6, 2003 Ok, not to keep pestering you about the time line on licensing Bill, but are we talking months or years before this will be available to those of us with other-than-RWS containers? (can't wait can't wait). Thx P.S. "begging the question" means to apply circular logic to a discussion, not a discussion that is begging for a question to be asked. Blue ones .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #22 February 6, 2003 QuoteFWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is. Maybe so but It still kicks ass and the develpement of the system seems to be a very plausable and probable asset to the skydiving community. Honestly I'll probably never have one (I say that now....), but I'd sure like see my students using something like that. Time will tell By the way Kelly, thanks for the Quick info about stainless.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #23 February 6, 2003 Kelly; I first starting playing around with this idea in about 1984. (I thought you saw the videos of early tests at symposium.) The problem I came across then, and which was still not solved before the Skyhook, is the problem of automatic release in the case of a main total malfunction. The Sorcerer system is designed for an external hand deployed reserve pilot chute system, and can only be released by pulling the pilot chute out of the pouch. It's a great system for base jumping, but if you used it on a normal internal spring-loaded pilot chute reserve (like we all jump), you would have a reserve horse shoe malfunction if your Cypres went off, or your reserve closing loop broke. I would not sell this system without the Collin's lanyard because even one broken RSL riser without it (and there have been two this year I have heard about) would probably be fatal. And even one preventable fatality is too many. Besides, risers don't have to break...misrigged risers prematurely release all the time. The main advantage of this system (aside from its speed) is that it gives the average jumper a good reason to use an RSL. And that alone will save lives...24 in the last 10 years in the US alone. As for pin checking...The system is very securely locked when you close your reserve container. This is but one of the problems I had to solve to make it practical. But even if it did come unhooked during the pack cycle, your reserve would still function just like it would if the Skyhook weren't there. As to whether cutting reserve deployment time in half for skydivers is revolutionary...well, I'll let others decide...but personally, I think it's kinda neat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #24 February 6, 2003 *** Bill, I don't know exactly when you started on this system, but Mark had already jumped his system at Z-Hills several months (at least) BEFORE he and Marta were employed at RWS in 1990 (you can check your employee records). The only difference I can see between this system and the one you "abandoned" about 10 years ago (I never got a close look at it) is the addition of the Collins Lanyard. It is a notable improvement, but I don't see a rash of solo jumpers with broken risers. So that begs the question, why is it such a breakthrough now? I think it does have merit for use on Tandems and some very specialized applications, but I don't see it as a "save all" for every jumper. One other question- how do you pin check the system? I don't think there is any way to make sure the system is hooked up properly after it is packed. FWIW, I have a lot of respect for Bill and his accomplishments, but this isn't as revolutionary as everyone thinks it is.Quote Take a good look at the system, you will see a lot of difference, as Bill already mentioned exactly, how a sorcerer and the skyhook is different. Think about how many people this system could have saved in the past, And also he didn't abandon it like you said, he was trying to figure out a way to implement the skyhook with use of a spring loaded Pc, which couldn't be used with the sorcerer design. Also the collins lanyard isn't totally neccessary but it does help in the event of a horseshoe with a cutaway, where the riser's dont release at exactly the same time. Also it is another safe guard. And if you look at the V3 with the skyhook it is very easy to check to see if everything is ok. Revolutionary? Dunno. Great idea? I think so, and everyone that this system saves will agree. Also If marta and mark have an issue with who designed it first Im sure they will let us know. Blue ones. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #25 February 6, 2003 I honestly don't know when I'll be able to license it. First other manufacturers will pooh-pooh it. Then they'll try to get around the patent with their own versions. Only then they will ask to license it. I know. I went through all this years ago with the hand deploy pilot chute and 3-ring release. I can't sell the Skyhook to the user of another rig, because it's part of the reserve system, and the rig manufacturer would have to test, approve, and install it on their own gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
