jsaxton 0 #1 November 30, 2003 If I want to see 4 way exits from an Otter I can look at the Airspeed stuff. I'm interested in learning 4 way exits from a Cessna. Does anyone know of a resouorce for this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gremlin 0 #2 November 30, 2003 Quote I'm interested in learning 4 way exits from a Cessna. Does anyone know of a resouorce for this? Yes. My DZ has an cessna caravan - a great resource for flying 4 way exits and I find the airspeed method works fine. I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #3 November 30, 2003 Ask some old timers at your DZ. 4 way from 182's is a lost art...Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #4 November 30, 2003 A long time ago at the nationals 4-way was out of Cessna 182's. My team pretty much launched each first formation. The general set up is -- 1) point is layed out as far on the strut as he can get. On formations where this person is facing the center he doesn't stretch out, but faces forward or slightly inside. 2) The person who would now be called "inside-center" is sitting on the strut with their back to the wind. Right foot on top of the strut near the base of the strut. 3) center person on step directly in front of and facing #2 4) Right foon on the step, left foot wherever. Facing slightly aft of the wing-line. Of course there are variations dictated by the needs of each formation you are trying to launch. I'd recommend you just pull the same thing off until you get things going well, then you can get tricky and unfold a cat and such. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #5 November 30, 2003 QuoteA long time ago at the nationals 4-way was out of Cessna 182's. My team pretty much launched each first formation. The general set up is -- 1) point is layed out as far on the strut as he can get. On formations where this person is facing the center he doesn't stretch out, but faces forward or slightly inside. 2) The person who would now be called "inside-center" is sitting on the strut with their back to the wind. Right foot on top of the strut near the base of the strut. 3) center person on step directly in front of and facing #2 4) Right foon on the step, left foot wherever. Facing slightly aft of the wing-line. Of course there are variations dictated by the needs of each formation you are trying to launch. I'd recommend you just pull the same thing off until you get things going well, then you can get tricky and unfold a cat and such. Where is tail? Or are they the #4 you have listed in your example? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 November 30, 2003 He has tail as #4 To keep with a continuity plan for an left door plane like an Otter (Point is left of OC), the OC should be in the crotch and the IC on step in the "student" position though. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jsaxton 0 #7 December 1, 2003 Thanks for the insight. I'm really looking for actual foot/hane/grip placement. One of the more experianced guys had us trying to launch a diamond and (for some strange reason) I find this stuff interesting and something that should be documented and passed down to newer jumpers (like me) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites darkwing 4 #8 December 1, 2003 To launch a straight diamond we would have #1 (the person out on the strut) be the point. The guy sitting on the strut would be the left wing. The center guy would be right wing, and the tail of the diamond would be the guy in the door. As always, timing is critical. The point must pick up the count. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jethers203 0 #9 December 4, 2003 I do a lot of 4 way in El Paso out of the 182 and we have a pretty good system. We launch a meeker as the first point. It has to be the most solid exit. It is on the dive pools, but we do it backwards from the picture. 1. Guy all the way out keeps left foot on step and hands on strut. Grabs guy in the V's left leg grip immediately after exit. Always is looking to the center. 2. Guy in the V (back to wind) has Left arm of the guy on the step and left leg grip of the guy in the door with right hand. Both or only left foot on step. Right foot cocked up on strut to push off on exit. 3. Guy in door has left leg of the guy on the step with left hand. Right leg on step and left leg cocked back in the plane tp push out. Look toward the center. 4. Guy on step gives count (UP, DOWN, OUT) has left arm grip of guy in the V. Immediately after exit has left leg grip of guy all the way out with right hand. Sounds complicated, but it really isn't. One thing though, be sure to exit at a 45 degree angle. This way, the guy in the door won't hit the side of the plane. Clint D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites meatbomb 0 #10 December 4, 2003 All of the above answers seem to be from a 182...we launch from a 206 on a regular basis, which doesn't have the luxury of steps or struts. We usually launch a 3-way star (floater, seated, diver) with one guy podded between the seated and the diver. This can be a very stable launch, particularly if the podder is quite a hhh-hhmm heavy guy (not unlike myself!). We normally launch with floater as outside centre, seated as point, diver as tail, and podded as inside centre. There's even room for the camera dude as rear float! Hope that helps... Ru. Team eNV--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #11 December 4, 2003 Clint - I bet you find your meeker is consistently steep. With the count from the student position, the crotch sometimes gets pulled off as it can be difficult to time his exit even with the right foot pushing off. Take the count from the guy in the crotch (V) and you'll likely get a cleaner more consistent exit. Also, all grips can be in place on a Cessna meeker. Far hang holds on with right hand and takes the leg right away. Student holds on with left hand and takes far hang's leg right away. Never had an issue. Edit: Most anything can be launched from a Cessna 182 step, and a no step plane can be treated much like an Otter exit. The nice thing about a big step, is that you are already in the airstream and it's easier to place yourself on the hill - most all are easier than from an Otter. There is more room as everyone is out already. The rules on the Airspeed articles on this site still apply, though. With those, you can launch anything. Timing and presentation. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jethers203 0 #12 December 4, 2003 Actually with the guys I usually do 4 way with, it is never steep at all. We are really in sync. with each other. When the guy on the step that gives the count says ready, we are, and we all move with him on the count (up, down, out). Are exits never break and the guy in the V never gets dragged out. I know, because I am usually in the V or the door. Also, we are always turning points on the hill and we usually get 12-15 points from 10,000. Clint D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #13 December 4, 2003 You're lucky to have a group with natural timing. Sounds great. I was using your example as more of tips for the newer RW workers. Our otter usually leaves around November. So Cessna jumping is the snow activity here and is associated with bit of pickup 4-way instead of the regular teams. Also, we mix it up even during the season to spread the learning to the newbies. That usually means I do a lot of coaching - especially when jumping Cessnas. So taking a count from the V can be taken here as advice for the newer guys to help them get it more consistently. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jethers203 0 #14 December 4, 2003 Yeah, you are right. That would be a good idea. I'll pass that on to some other groups that do 4 way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #15 December 5, 2003 Hey Jeff! Have you tried looking in your back yard? The Sirens did quite a few training jump for that very same 206 you have been propelling your butt out of. I'll try to tap into my memory recall and show you some of my old moves ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #16 December 5, 2003 QuoteAsk some old timers at your DZ. 4 way from 182's is a lost art... Oh gawd, oh gawd, I must be an old-timer! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunshine 2 #17 December 16, 2003 QuoteAsk some old timers at your DZ. 4 way from 182's is a lost art... I'm not a big fan of RW, but doing 4way out of the 182 is some fun stuff!!! ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alan 1 #18 December 16, 2003 We put tail out on the strut. IS center in the crotch. OS center on the step and point in the door. I think we have launced every formation in the 99 dive pool. No cut exits. Grip, foot and hand placement need to be well engineered. It is obvious, but presentation to the relative wind is the big key to success as well as timing. Each formation requires adjusments to all of these ares. Typically the tail is off just slightly first and low. This seems to create an Otter type exit. We competed in the NSL and did very well, with our exits having more success than the teams training out of Otters. Many were very surprised at our success.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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darkwing 4 #8 December 1, 2003 To launch a straight diamond we would have #1 (the person out on the strut) be the point. The guy sitting on the strut would be the left wing. The center guy would be right wing, and the tail of the diamond would be the guy in the door. As always, timing is critical. The point must pick up the count. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #9 December 4, 2003 I do a lot of 4 way in El Paso out of the 182 and we have a pretty good system. We launch a meeker as the first point. It has to be the most solid exit. It is on the dive pools, but we do it backwards from the picture. 1. Guy all the way out keeps left foot on step and hands on strut. Grabs guy in the V's left leg grip immediately after exit. Always is looking to the center. 2. Guy in the V (back to wind) has Left arm of the guy on the step and left leg grip of the guy in the door with right hand. Both or only left foot on step. Right foot cocked up on strut to push off on exit. 3. Guy in door has left leg of the guy on the step with left hand. Right leg on step and left leg cocked back in the plane tp push out. Look toward the center. 4. Guy on step gives count (UP, DOWN, OUT) has left arm grip of guy in the V. Immediately after exit has left leg grip of guy all the way out with right hand. Sounds complicated, but it really isn't. One thing though, be sure to exit at a 45 degree angle. This way, the guy in the door won't hit the side of the plane. Clint D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meatbomb 0 #10 December 4, 2003 All of the above answers seem to be from a 182...we launch from a 206 on a regular basis, which doesn't have the luxury of steps or struts. We usually launch a 3-way star (floater, seated, diver) with one guy podded between the seated and the diver. This can be a very stable launch, particularly if the podder is quite a hhh-hhmm heavy guy (not unlike myself!). We normally launch with floater as outside centre, seated as point, diver as tail, and podded as inside centre. There's even room for the camera dude as rear float! Hope that helps... Ru. Team eNV--- Swoopert, CS-Aiiiiiii! Piccies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #11 December 4, 2003 Clint - I bet you find your meeker is consistently steep. With the count from the student position, the crotch sometimes gets pulled off as it can be difficult to time his exit even with the right foot pushing off. Take the count from the guy in the crotch (V) and you'll likely get a cleaner more consistent exit. Also, all grips can be in place on a Cessna meeker. Far hang holds on with right hand and takes the leg right away. Student holds on with left hand and takes far hang's leg right away. Never had an issue. Edit: Most anything can be launched from a Cessna 182 step, and a no step plane can be treated much like an Otter exit. The nice thing about a big step, is that you are already in the airstream and it's easier to place yourself on the hill - most all are easier than from an Otter. There is more room as everyone is out already. The rules on the Airspeed articles on this site still apply, though. With those, you can launch anything. Timing and presentation. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #12 December 4, 2003 Actually with the guys I usually do 4 way with, it is never steep at all. We are really in sync. with each other. When the guy on the step that gives the count says ready, we are, and we all move with him on the count (up, down, out). Are exits never break and the guy in the V never gets dragged out. I know, because I am usually in the V or the door. Also, we are always turning points on the hill and we usually get 12-15 points from 10,000. Clint D-24352 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 December 4, 2003 You're lucky to have a group with natural timing. Sounds great. I was using your example as more of tips for the newer RW workers. Our otter usually leaves around November. So Cessna jumping is the snow activity here and is associated with bit of pickup 4-way instead of the regular teams. Also, we mix it up even during the season to spread the learning to the newbies. That usually means I do a lot of coaching - especially when jumping Cessnas. So taking a count from the V can be taken here as advice for the newer guys to help them get it more consistently. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jethers203 0 #14 December 4, 2003 Yeah, you are right. That would be a good idea. I'll pass that on to some other groups that do 4 way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #15 December 5, 2003 Hey Jeff! Have you tried looking in your back yard? The Sirens did quite a few training jump for that very same 206 you have been propelling your butt out of. I'll try to tap into my memory recall and show you some of my old moves ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #16 December 5, 2003 QuoteAsk some old timers at your DZ. 4 way from 182's is a lost art... Oh gawd, oh gawd, I must be an old-timer! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #17 December 16, 2003 QuoteAsk some old timers at your DZ. 4 way from 182's is a lost art... I'm not a big fan of RW, but doing 4way out of the 182 is some fun stuff!!! ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alan 1 #18 December 16, 2003 We put tail out on the strut. IS center in the crotch. OS center on the step and point in the door. I think we have launced every formation in the 99 dive pool. No cut exits. Grip, foot and hand placement need to be well engineered. It is obvious, but presentation to the relative wind is the big key to success as well as timing. Each formation requires adjusments to all of these ares. Typically the tail is off just slightly first and low. This seems to create an Otter type exit. We competed in the NSL and did very well, with our exits having more success than the teams training out of Otters. Many were very surprised at our success.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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