0
TikiMan

Logical next step...?

Recommended Posts

I have been dialing in a sabre2 135 @ 1.6 for the past few months and am ready to start getting in to more performance canopy work. What would be the logical next stepping stones as far as canopies go?
I would think Katana 135 then Katana 120. Changing platforms before downsizing from non-elliptical to elliptical on the same size canopy (135) would be best to get used to the different flying characteristics. Then a downsize 200+ jumps down the road.

I do plan on keeping my 135 Sabre for wingsuiting.

I am only looking to broaden my knowledge from you guys based on what you have done and what you believe would be logical. I will still be speaking with my canopy coach and take his advice I just want to hear other opinions as well. Knowledge is power.

I do jump quite a bit here in Fl averaging 16 jumps a/month. Not bragging or saying I'm some kind of skygod just so you have an understanding of my currency.

Let me know your thoughts.

Warm Winds, Blue Skies...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Katana is a lot more ground hungry than the Saber, so if you're doing anything with it, initiate a lot higher .. Sounds like a good plan not downsizing but switching to elliptical of the same size .. My Canopy coach went from a Saber to Katana as a stepping stone as well and recommended it instead of downsizing etc .. If you can get your hands on a Katana 150 try flying it a few times get used to the difference in characteristics as opposed to the Saber.. Ultimately noone can tell you what to do without knowing your skill level .. SKydiving is a lot about judgement and dealing with consequences of bad judgement.. I went from a stilletto to a Katana and probably should have been jumping a saber or something equivalent prior to hitting the katana but again it's on a case by case basis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I have been dialing in a sabre2 135 @ 1.6 for the past few months and am ready to start getting in to more performance canopy work. What would be the logical next stepping stones as far as canopies go?



At least two more years on your sabre to learn how to really fly it (just 384 jumps at your current rate).

[QUOTE]
I do jump quite a bit here in Fl averaging 16 jumps a/month. Not bragging or saying I'm some kind of skygod just so you have an understanding of my currency.
[/QUOTE]

Averaging fewer than four jumps a week isn't a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I have been dialing in a sabre2 135 @ 1.6 for the past few months



Define this better. How many jumps does that add up to? In terms of 'dailing in', what does that mean to you, and where in that process are you? Is your profile correct and are you currently at 400 jumps?

Quote

Then a downsize 200+ jumps down the road.



Given your current WL, 200 jumps is not going to be enough time on a canopy between downsizes. The higher your WL goes, the more difference you'll notice in downsizes, and the more time you'll spend on a canopy.

Students go from .75 to .85 WL with 5 or 6 jumps on a given canopy (like a 260/240 student canopy). The differences between those canopies is slight, and doesn't require as much work to be 'ready'.

Once you crest 1.5-ish in WL, and start getting into HP flight, things get more complicated, and thus it takes longer to really be 'ready'.

Quote

I do jump quite a bit here in Fl averaging 16 jumps a/month



To echo what Drew said, you need to recalibrate your idea of 'quite a bit'. For reference, when we're 'in season' up here in Ohio, I'll do twice that number per month, easy.

Again, when you're pushing into higher WL and HP canopy flight, 400 total jumps and 16/month is straight-up newbie territory, and probably the bare minimum numbers needed for participation. Repetition is a huge factor in learning, and being able to build on the learning experience of one jump by the same jump immediately following is what's going to help you get the most out of your jumps. However you slice up 16 jumps over the course of the month, you're either jumping a little bit on 6 or 8 days, or jumping a lot on fewer days with more time in between trips to the DZ, and neither one of those puts you on the 'fast track' to swooping and smaller canopies.

Just to put it in perspective, the one guy I knew who successfully pushed the limits of WL and swooping for his jump numbers was so gung-ho that we would arrange for the pilot and 3 other jumpers to show up at the DZ at 7am, so they could do 2 hours of hop n pops before starting a 10 to 12 hour shift on the video rotation. He wasn't satisfied with 8 to 10 video jumps, he wanted to add those 4 or 5 hop n pops to his daily total. He would do this Sat and Sun, every chance he got.

I'm not suggesting that you need to be doing 20+ jumps per week to be a swooper. What I'm saying is that you need to look at the time and money you can dedicate to the sport, and adjust your activities accordingly. Just the like all the newbies/whuffos who post asking if they can be safe skydiving once a month, or only make 10 jumps per year, the answer is 'yes' as long as they remember their experience and currency when they plan out their jumps. Smaller formations (or solos), bigger canopies, lower wind limits, etc. All of these things will make it 'safe' to be an infrequent jumper.

You're in the same boat with swooping and small canopies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


No manufacturer has managed to make a canopy that competes in the intermediate market.



They do, it's called a Sabre2 or a Safire2. Both of those canopies will serve someone very well as they increase in skill and experience.

A XF2 is not a better alternative than a Katana, a XF2 and Katana are in the same class of canopy. Both are advanced wings for the serious advanced canopy pilot.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm usually quite hesitant with posting anything here, especially when the topic is downsizing because you easily burn your fingers, but since I'm in the same position as you I'll take the chance anyway.

I was recently attending a canopy control course flying my Sabre2 120, loading it at 1.57. After the course, the coach encouraged me to look for a Katana or similar once I reached 400 jumps, which was 20 jumps away. Two weeks later (and 20 jumps) I did my first jumps in a Katana 120.

I haven't put that many jumps on it, but differences are showing right away. It is a very different machine. Ground hungry as hell compared to a Sabre2.

My advice would be to hear a skilled canopy pilot's opinion, and of course someone who knows your style of flying. If I'd been told not to look for a Katana, I wouldn't have.

Good luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the input guys and let me clarify. I do not plan on doing this tomorrow. I am simply looking for some input on what my next canopy options would be if I wanted to get into a HP canopy with eventual goals of swooping. I have great coaches at my DZ and will take their advice and plan on putting in plenty of time on my current wing. Having several choices in canopy progression I wanted to know what options are out there. Let me rephrase this and turn it into a thread that people can learn from. What was your canopy progression?

For Example:
Canopy Size (Jumps on canopy)
-Sabre2 210 (10)
-Sabre2 190 (20)
-Sabre1 170 (100)
-Sabre 2 150 (250)
-Sabre 2 135 (200)

Options:
-Katana 120 (600)
-Katana 107 (600)
-Velo 103 (600)
-Velo 96 (650)

This is my current progression tree up to the 135 So what would the rest of the tree look like (in your opinion and why)

(Remember this is just an example and not what I actually expect to do.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This was may canopy progression to date with lots of coaching and courses
Various rental gear 290- 170 (100)
Safire 1 170 (450)
Safire 2 150 (200)
Crossfire 2 139(450)
Crossfire 2 119(500)
Vx99 (200)
JFX 83 (400)
Comp Velo 90 (50 but this is my current canopy)
Aswell as tandem canopies 330-370!

My advice would be to stick with the Sabre for a lot longer until you are jumping more often (16 a month is nothing) and you really have it dialed in. You have absolutely no need for a katana/crossfire yet. Bear in mind i didn't make my first downsize until 150 jumps after i was a full time videographer jumping 6/7 days a week doing 20-40 jumps a week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Personally, I think that if you want to get into real swooping, like swoop meets and the like, then you're better off waiting a bit longer (a few hundred jumps, plus increasing your currency while you're at it) and then going to a KA. I love my Crossfire 2 109 but it's really easy to hit speeds where the recovery arc is very positive - to the point where you have to fly the front risers through the recovery. That's not a good way to get good experience for proper swooping IMO. Having said that, the rears on the Crossfire 2 are totally awesome, super easy to land on with a lot of range. The XF2 is just generally an excellent, all around canopy IMO but the KA is still going to be a better bet for swoop progression.

For the record, I load my XF2109 at around 1.7 which is not trivial by any means but am still able to get it going fast enough on 90ºs where the recovery arc is really positive. I'm no swoop expert either, clearly. :D

YMMV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0