morris 0 #26 February 3, 2009 From what I know they wanted a) to make the water even more important and b) for the landing they wanted to have something that is more like the classic accuracy landing kind of thing, with a target you have to land to at close as possible and you loose points for distance from that target... in addition it could be c) a saftey thing as only your first point of contact counts and you don´t have to stop immediatly at any cost... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NexGenSkydiver 0 #27 February 3, 2009 "c) a saftey thing as only your first point of contact counts and you don´t have to stop immediatly at any cost... " Doesnt that defeat the whole point of accuracy if you can just tap a toe in the "highscore" zone and blow through the course? I like the idea Ian has as far as switching the value of gate 2 and gate 4 on the water. What makes accuracy difficult to me is being able to shut down my canopy in zone 5. Being able to blow through the course and just tap the highscore zone defeats the whole idea of accuracy to me......I think this is a bad call for the evolution of canopy piloting competitions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morris 0 #28 February 3, 2009 I agree! But this has been mentioned at the competitors meeting and therefore I expect that the rules somehow "meet" this objection. Maybe we´ll have to stop within a certain distance from first point of contact, we´ll see... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
selwynj 0 #29 February 4, 2009 Here is a document from the meeting.“It takes ten years to get ten years’ experience” Eric "tonto" Stephenson D515 PASA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #30 February 4, 2009 Thanks. I'm still confused though - if there's no zone 0 anymore (no mans land) and the pilot drags all the water gates but doesn't make dry land - what's their score? I didn't see anything in the document addressing that. Also, is there no more 'fall down' penalty - and finally do we have to stop in the zone, or just touch it? Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
selwynj 0 #31 February 4, 2009 I guess the writing will be that you have to stop in one of the "scoring" zones. If you blast past the last zone then it is still a zero. If you touch the liner on the exit, then you will score zone 1. I think the standup rule will still apply. They will most likely just address the rules change as written on this document, and leave all the other rules the same. Just touching the zone and sliding into the next zone, will give you the previous zone( The zone you touched down in first) as that is the highest value to deduct. Just a guess though.“It takes ten years to get ten years’ experience” Eric "tonto" Stephenson D515 PASA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morris 0 #32 February 4, 2009 Are the points on the water 25 per gate? One thing in the document I really don´t like is the gateheight for the WorldGames and the WorldAirGames of just 1,2m. I know that the IPC CanopyPiloting chairman Thomas wants to make everything more difficult and there are for sure pros and cons for doing so. But: I really don´t like the idea of achieving this by using lower entrygates! One reason for this is safety. If an average hit of the gate is "kneedeep" the feet of the pilot are about ~90cm from the ground if 1,5m gates are used. With 1.2m gates the clearance to/from the ground is reduced to about ~60cm, a decrease of about 50%. Another reason is performance. If the gates would become lower in general and thereby easier to miss, pilots would fly more conservative to guarantee the gate. I don´t think this is what the spectators or the majority of pilots are looking for. Ideally competitors wanna show their best performance, not 9 "safety-runs". I´m not saying that I´d like to see 10ft (3m) amateur gates at international level, but I´d rather see an increase in (entry)gateheight to anything between 6ft and 2m instead of a reduction down to 1.4m (~4ft). Slightly higher gates would increase safety and performances while lower gates.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverTooLow 0 #33 February 4, 2009 Hi Gates are rated 28, 13, 17, 42 points according to the little numbers in the .pdf Not reaching the land is probably a 0 score, ha :) Totally agree about safety and performance decreased by lowering the entry gates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 February 4, 2009 I'm still confused. Remember guys, small words. So there's no dead zone, except the water? All of your points are on the water and only deductions for the zones? Are there still negative zones and is there still a zero for going past zone 8?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
selwynj 0 #35 February 4, 2009 The first gate is 28, 2nd 13, 3rd 17 and 4th 42. The document is low resolution and hard to read, but enlarge this and it should be visible. The lower gates will make it much harder, so the best pilots will still be at the top. There might be some sacrifice for safety though.“It takes ten years to get ten years’ experience” Eric "tonto" Stephenson D515 PASA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #36 February 4, 2009 i agree with Ian, all that was needed for accuracy to make it tougher (if that was the objective) was to switch the point values of water gates 2 and 4, it's simple and doesn't require a lot of change. but I guess as long as the IPC committee gets these new rules out ASAP then it'll be ok since we're all in the same boat and all have the same time to adapt to the new rules. what i would have liked to have seen is a rule stating that there needs to be video on all water gates and also on the zone 0-1 line and the 5-6 line for judging purposes.Slip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #37 February 4, 2009 Quote Not reaching the land is probably a 0 score, ha :) You'd expect so, but past experience has proven that every little detail has to be absolutely clear. I guess we'll see in the final version IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DALAILAMA 0 #38 February 4, 2009 I always agree with Ian, but as for Stu, LOCK IT UP!"Dropzone.com, where uneducated people measuring penises, has become an art form" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstu 0 #39 February 4, 2009 I'm gonna kick you right in the taint, and that's a medically proven factSlip Stream Air Sports Do not go softly, do not go quietly, never back down Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morris 0 #40 February 4, 2009 Did I get that right? Someone who scores all but the last watergate and does a standup-landing in the "bullseye" will receive only 58 points? (It used to be 96, right?) Missing the first gate, scoring the rest = 72? The first two gates 41, the last two 59? Looks to me like going from one extrem (last gate unimportant) to the other (last gate way too important)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #41 February 4, 2009 Quote I always agree with Ian, but as for Stu, LOCK IT UP! Oh!!! Chickfight!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #42 February 5, 2009 Quote Did I get that right? Someone who scores all but the last watergate and does a standup-landing in the "bullseye" will receive only 58 points? (It used to be 96, right?) Missing the first gate, scoring the rest = 72? The first two gates 41, the last two 59? Looks to me like going from one extrem (last gate unimportant) to the other (last gate way too important)... Now look what you've done Morris! you created a Monster!! (just mucking about here...I'm bored as hell tonight and have very little clue as to what's really happening but... it appears to be all Morris' fault :-))) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DALAILAMA 0 #43 February 5, 2009 Its a perinium you arse! and I still agree with Ian, after all he is going to father my child!"Dropzone.com, where uneducated people measuring penises, has become an art form" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #44 February 5, 2009 Both Ian and Annie preggers at the same time ??? what a thought!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
audwiz 0 #45 February 5, 2009 QuoteDid I get that right? Someone who scores all but the last watergate and does a standup-landing in the "bullseye" will receive only 58 points? (It used to be 96, right?) Missing the first gate, scoring the rest = 72? The first two gates 41, the last two 59? Looks to me like going from one extrem (last gate unimportant) to the other (last gate way too important)... I seem to remember that it was verbalized that we will have to drag through the 1st gate, intermediates perhaps not, to put a score on the cards. Final doc will reveal all! BTW, the doc needs clarification as to course layout as well...40m on land to end of all scoring zones, or 50 m.... <<<< >>>> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morris 0 #46 February 5, 2009 Don´t blame me for the "accuracy-monster" but dare to have a look at it: All watergates but the last one and a non-standup in zone 4: 58 - 21 - 10 = 27 points.... Now the balance of the different events is completely f____d up. The idea was to make speed more important to "catch-up" with accuracy. Now it looks like anyone who isn´t an accuracy expert is out, no matter what... :-( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piahenzi 0 #47 February 5, 2009 hmmm... .... aren't you PRO's supposed to be experts?? (just being facetious and having a little fun here, Morris, don't take it personally) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverTooLow 0 #48 February 5, 2009 "Someone who scores all but the last watergate and does a standup-landing in the "bullseye" will receive only 58 points?" I mean thats a verry good run but gives "little" points. That example is indeed verry hard. Maybe it is not such a good idea to earn all points on the water. But I hope for all competitors that ther is still time to discuss on this issue with those responsible for setting the new rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
selwynj 0 #49 February 5, 2009 Dragging gate 1 - gate 4 on the water with a stop(standup) in a scoring zone was the idea or having enough power to be able to. Too many pilots were leaving gate 4 because it was minimal points. They are now forcing you to get gate 4 on the water and then lift up, not to touch the end of the water(pondliner/side), avoiding to score zone 1 on land. It may as you say have gone to the other extreme, but we need to work on this. Maybe the answer is just to shuffle the points a bit further. First and last gates on the water should definately be the high scoring gates. Maybe Ian had the answer with just switching the 2nd and 4th gate scoring. I do like the idea of having the zone 5 with no score just a little square in the center and then a small deduction for the rest of zone 5. Many pilots dunked in zone 5 having too much speed. This makes it much harder.“It takes ten years to get ten years’ experience” Eric "tonto" Stephenson D515 PASA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NexGenSkydiver 0 #50 February 5, 2009 I would just like to say thank you for making the rules so ridiculous, I will have no personal drive to wanna compete. So, you wanted to make the last water gate more important, why not just make that gate more important and not change up the whole zones? Now there will be even more difference in the scores for zone acc.! Looks like it will be even more important now......Once again I would like to say these new rules are ridiculous!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
