pairashooter 0 #1 July 2, 2008 What should be done about someone who is hot headed and does not like to listen to anyone regarding safety. I know someone who recently injured himself under a parachute that he does not completely know how to fly yet. He has already ordered his new, smaller canopy for when he is back in the air. Attempts to push him in the right direction have been met with disregard by this jumper. What do you think should be done?Chris Scaife Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frost 1 #2 July 2, 2008 you *could* let natural selection take care of things. Or search for Bounce Bingo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #3 July 2, 2008 Things like this are always a tough situation. Unfortunately there's no real nice answer. People either come around, or get injured/die. I wish I could say something more profound than that but I've tried every approach I can think of - ranging from ultra nice and nuturing, to being blatently hard about it - all to no avail. Other than the DZO stopping them jumping the wing, there's nothing you can say to change the person's mind - typically. Now, if they're a danger to others too (often this goes hand in hand), you can speak by not getting on any loads they're on. I know a few people who've done this with great effect - "Oh, so and so's on the load - please scratch our 12 way because we don't want to be under canopy with them". Blues, IanPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenHall 0 #4 July 5, 2008 Dude, you gotta be nice and serious at the same time. Just say, "hey man, I know some guys whose femur's are not in one piece because they did what you're doing, and maybe you should get better under the canopy you're flying now." I know I downsized at the appropriate times, fast for some but okay for me. I got in trouble when I started doing 270's when I should have stuck to 90's and paid for it. I could fly the canopy fine in bad situations, but only when I was doing 90's. Sure my 270's were only a little sketchy(not good by any means just not horribly wrong) when all went well, but I didn't have the experience to know that when 1 thing is not ideal I needed to abort. I think most guys like him and I need to hear something more like the following from experienced jumpers(to be effective): "Hey man I know you gotta push yourself to get better, but you can have lots of fun under your current canopy and still risk hurting yourself without going even further and downsizing yet again. I'm sure you could fly that new canopy and not get hurt 70% of the time, but that margin of staying safe is getting pretty small and you should watch out." I know that for me personally, if I didn't downsize when I did I'd be bored as hell under canopy, but that didn't mean I could try as big of hook turns when I did. It can be hard to recognize that people can be safe under smaller canopies but still knowing when to draw the line when it comes to types of landings--or when that line is crossed to an unacceptable risk for injury. Of course to be safe we should all make 100's of jumps under 210' specters, but each of us has their own acceptable level of risk/injury. I'm not saying it's a justified attitude, but I felt that much more experienced jumpers warned me to a slight excess when I should downsize for my skill level. It's the messing with front risers that got me in trouble. The key is to warn others in a way that will still get through to them, especially when they have an inflated sense of self skill under canopy(like I did). Allowing them their own personal freedoms while still sending out a stout warning that their chances of getting hurt are climbing at a little too fast a rate might be a better signal than just saying "you're an idiot and you should stick at super conservative WLings.".--even though it's a true statement . Hope this helps, and my words to that jumper would be along the same lines--dude just chill for a while and learn the cool things you can do with the canopy you got, you might get away with it but man the cards are stacked in the direction of titanium for you. As cool as hours of PT and picking out new canes is, don't f-ing fly that canopy. Then if he's still an idiot keep popping his reserve on the ground till he gets the message haha. I learned the hard way and suffered for it, those of you reading with low jump #'s should consider yourselves warned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madhatter 0 #5 July 6, 2008 Does your DZO know of your concerns re this jumper? Obviously that would be the first step. If other jumpers share your concerns, you could all just refuse to get in the plane with him while he's jumping an unsafe canopy. No one wants to be in the air if there's a yahoo that might just cause havoc in the landing pattern...A VERY MERRY UNBIRTHDAY TO YOU!!! D.S # 125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pairashooter 0 #6 July 6, 2008 When he is better and ready to jump he is going to jump his old canopy, which he has a hard time with anyway, and we will see how that goes. If he is being anything other than conservative and/or smart then I will personally speak with him and go from there. I thank everyone for their advice.Chris Scaife Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #7 July 8, 2008 I know one dude that broke a leg and totally bust an ankle under sabre 135. Couple of days earlier he was talking about buying a Velocity... Only a couple of hundred jumps... In the end, maybe it`s good that the bones were broken. If not, we can imagine what would Velocity do...dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #8 July 8, 2008 QuoteIf not, we can imagine what would Velocity do... It would not have been the Velocity, just you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #9 July 8, 2008 I`m not sure I got you on this one. dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #10 July 8, 2008 QuoteIt's not the arrow, it's the indian. Its not really the canopy's fault if you break yourself on landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMFin 0 #11 July 8, 2008 Best advice I can think of is: Pay close attention on the way you are speking to the person in question. Most of the times people handle these situations very rude and it will only make things worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #12 July 8, 2008 Oh, OK. Yes, you are 100% right. (* I thought that you think about me personally. ) dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #13 July 8, 2008 Quote Best advice I can think of is: Pay close attention on the way you are speking to the person in question. Most of the times people handle these situations very rude and it will only make things worse. And you are 100% right. I think this was the case here also, but it was not me who spoke to this person.dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimoke1 0 #14 July 9, 2008 I have seen this year after year. I have seen these same guys pound in, some dead, some broken, some make it. it is scary. I tell them " I am only concerned because I like you" If everything you say falls on deaf ears, Ask them to fill out a fatality report, so you can keep it on file. Stay Safe, JimOke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
