90's.... what builds more speed, slow and steady, or fast?

[DougH 270]

I was fortunate enough to get some really good advice recently and have been working on swooping from the ground up, starting with 90's all over again.

I have had good results with good consistency by doing a nice slow 90. I start in deep brakes, let the canopy loose and let it build up some speed in the surge. Then I bring in double fronts and when the pressure is getting high I introduce some roll angle and slowly carve out the 90.

A discussion came up this weekend with another experinced swooper that with 90's more speed is built with a snappy turn. He said the 180's and bigger slower is better, which I agree, but I don't know why 90's would be different.

I don't know if this is true, but I also think overall the slow carving turn that I am working on is going to be the foundation for bigger turns later on.

Even if I could get better swoops by changing the way I do my 90's I think I am training myself better with the slow turn.

Any thoughts?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[tetra316 0]

I got some coaching from JT and Jaymo last year and both said the slower the better. I can't remember the exact theory/reasoning but I believe it's the slower the turn the more energy is built up and therefore the more energy you have to translate to speed at the end. Of course things like grabbing your risers to soon, carving and such use up that energy, shortening your distance.

At least that's what I remember

[piahenzi 0]

Poster Morris has shared some detailed thoughts on these slow 90's as a building block in the progression to larger turns with me. I am sure he will respond to this thread in detail directly .... just wait

[ianmdrennan 2]

IMO the slow turn builds more energy. Fast turns rely entirely on the pendulum to generate the energy. That said, your rotation rate should be slowly, and steadily INCREASING - for a 90 you shouldn't really be getting up too high on your wing - that'll start to happen more naturally with the bigger turns as you'll have to increase the rotation rate throughout the turn to keep accelerating.

The philosophy I follow is: Do the turn the slowest you can that will keep you accelerating. Done correctly this should be a smooth increase in rotation speed over time.

I think you're on the right track.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Pendragon 1]

I think I can see where your friend may be coming from, but I don't think the answer is particularly important since you will probably move to higher rotations in time.

Besides, snappy 90s may entice you to initiate lower, which will also cut your safety margin. Avoid doing this.

In case you weren't aware, Ian Drennan is a well respected canopy coach. Do what he suggests! A lot of canopy coaches seem to teach the steadily increasing turn rate now.

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[phoenixlpr 0]

You are on the right track.In order to exchange altitude to speed you need time. First of all you have to get your speed back than exceed full flights speed.A fast riser snap not usefull,you can turn 90o in 2sec. To be cont.

[DougH 270]

Gabor, I agree. The analogy the Greg Windmiller gave me was shifting through gears on a car, and I thought it was a great way of describing the different parts of the turn.

Getting back to the discussion from this weekend the argument was that big turns end up with a fast rate of turn during the last 90 degrees, and since I was only working on 90's that was a key part of the turn.

I think that view point is almost like saying I am doing a big turn with the first 180* missing so I should act like I am at the *end*.

I have been getting much better results keeping it in a dive longer letting it gain more vertical speed. I can make a 90 last a pretty long time, long then the half assed 270's I was doing, with better results too.

Thanks every one for the input, I appreciate it!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P