Velocity? Future? Competition Regulations?

[Spizzzarko 0]

It seems to me that the factories are looking for more than just talent. I'm sure they want the "Whole Person" to be all around good. If they most talented swooper is a dick then I'm sure the factory will overlook them and sponsor some one else.

Take Stu for example. The dude is very talented and an all around good dude. Stu also has a love of swooping that would be hard to beat from the most dedicated person out there. I'm sure there were several opportunites that he had before he chose to go with PD and Fastrax. Also take Ian Drennan. Ian has a true love for swooping and coaching people so that they do not get hurt. Ian is an all around good guy that any company would want to have representing their products. I really don't know Paul that well but from what I do know of him he exudes a professionalism about canopy flight that is hard to match. Paul is probably one of if not the most experienced person on the JVX out there. Additionaly let's not forget Kevin Love of Team Extreme. Kevin has a lot of jumps but what sets Kevin on a pedestal in my book is his friendly personality. He always has a positive thing to say to you when you see him and is always willing to help out if you ask him a question.


So you can see that there is alittle more to it than just being really good at swooping. True companies want their products to finish at the top in the competitions but I'm sure they don't want any douche bags (like me ) representing them.

From what I have seen of the PD folks (this is mearly my opinion and is not substantiated in any way shape or form) it seems to me that they are given a canopy and told to report back to the company about their impressions of it. They may or may not know what the differences are in that canopy. Again I cannot prove it, but this opinion comes from my conversations with some of them. Additionaly the changes in the canopy might be so moderate that they might not see a difference. Remember competition jumps are slightly different jumps than a regular fun jump as people are wearing as much weight as they can and are pushing their canopies as hard as they can.






Mel,

Yes, in a sense we are all test jumpers if you get down to it and I agree with you on that, but in my opinion manufacturing defects such as the ones on the crossfire and the ones on the Raven reserves are just unacceptable. I know making canopies is difficult but there has to be a good QA in this business or people are going to get hurt. I'm sure we both agree on that from our conversations. I like the options you offer and the information you provide. Your customer service has always been top notch for me. Thanks!

Grant

[Spizzzarko 0]

Steve,

I think that the PST can actually absorb the CPC and everyone can fly the same courses. The PST events are not that much harder or different than the CPC events in my opinion. If you got rid of the local CPC events and had two CPC events tied in with the PST I am sure Jim would get more turn out. As far as prize money goes there needs to be a better system than just the first place dude getting it all. I think that was kind of shitty.

If the PST and the CPC merged then you can get a better handle on the class system and just allow people to jump in what ever class they want as long as there is a way to ensure that the top talent moves up in the classes so that it isn't the same people winning each event. There should not be a huge dissparity in points from the first place person to the second or third place. If there is then that person needs to move up in classes.

Honestly I know I would compete in the intermediate level of my system because I do not really want to compete with Jay and those dudes. I don't think I would learn as much.

As far as money goes, who cares? If you are doing this shit for cash then you really need to step back and reevaluate why you are doing this. In my theoretical open class there should be less money awarded in my opinion because the people who would compete in this class should be fully sponsored or near that level. I would split any purse
fairly equally among all of the classes and then have pay outs for the top 4 finishers in each event. I think the focus on prize money in these events is very misleading as to the goal of these events. Is it not to come together and have a good time and learn from each other? What about the spirit of competition? I think that gets clouded when there is skrilla involved. Hell make everyones hotel stays freaking cheaper! I would hapilly pay my entry fees knowing that my money helped someone else aford to compete. Look at Jairo who cannot afford to come out because he got a speeding ticket! Mostly that is his fault but hell, if my entry fee went to help reduce other peoples costs then it just brings more people to the comp. That in turn brings more money to the plate for distribution or what not. Currently I have no idea where my entry fees go. They are pretty steep in my opinion and personally I do not just want to give my money to Jay each time because he is jumping a modified canopy that I cannopt compete against.

DIATRIBE COMPLETE!

Grant

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I think that the PST can actually absorb the CPC and everyone can fly the same courses.

It would be nice to see some CPC integration in PST events. I think more people would be interested in competitive swooping if they were allowed to compete at these higher profile events. Even though it was before my time, this once was the case with the advanced class and the pro class swoopers in the PST years 2004 and earlier. But I would not want to see the regional CPC events dissolved. The regional events not only allow people to get a taste of competitive swooping, but we also know that there are tons of talented swoopers who can not afford to travel to PST events. I guess the biggest issue of a large integrated PST/CPC event is getting in all the rounds. CPCers need to be on the same loads to ensure similar weather conditions just as PSTers need to be on the same loads. But the numbers will never be evenly balanced so there will always be weather inequalities between loads (look at the final distance round at last years CPC Championships as an example). But we can't control Mother Nature and we must just accept what that bitch throws at us.

But to get back on track ...

I would love to be given the opportunity to compete against the best just to see how far I must still progress in this sport and I am grateful that on several occasions I have been given this opportunity already (of course I see the window of my short competitive swooping career closing due to age, location and finances ... but I will live on trying to help the younger swoopers in my area at the grass roots level progress). But I do agree that guys like you and me are pretty much like the 2nd tier drivers on the Formula One race car circuit. We have the skill to compete, but we will never (at least I will never) stand on the podium since not only am I not as talented as the best, but my gear isn't nearly as state as the art as the top guns have. Just like Formula One racing. 2nd tier racers are not on the same level as the top racers driving their state of the art Ferraris. So when it comes to records and that sort of stuff. Open Class, Advanced and Intermediate make sense. But there is no reason why we can't all compete, trash talk, watch and coach each other at the same swoop comps. I would like to thank all the people in the past (like the Ians, the Pauls and others) who have watched me and offered constructive criticism on the swoops they have seen me do in practice and during the actual competitions at these events.

There are some sick swoops still to be thrown down. The best has yet to come.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[JGarcia 0]

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Look at Jairo who cannot afford to come out because he got a speeding ticket!

LOL...after I read that I decided to add up my expenses from that ticket (actually, it was a notice to appear in court, which technically means I was arrested, according to my lawyer). The tally so far is up to about $2600, between attorney fees, court costs, and probation fees. .

Well, I got voicemail from Bryan Buechler (SE CPC) telling me he heard I had a Porsche for sale. LOL. So, who knows, if I can get a deal I'm working on at work to close before the competition, I may be able to swing it at the last minute.

...and just to keep the thread on topic, I agree with your statement about not liking the idea of 1st place being the only one to take the $$. Though it's not a motivating factor for me at this point in my competition career, it has been very nice BONUS when I have won prize $$. However, the reality is that others have different motivating factors. The people that organize these events are doing it as their job, and as such, compensate themselves from the entry fees. And for many competitors, swooping is a full time job, and prize $$ may definitely factor into their decision whether or not to compete. Does it bother me that Jay Mo is jumping a canopy that is not commercially available at this time? Not in the least. Because I know that I can still learn so many things from seeing him fly that wing, and picking his brain about technique, etc. I compete to learn from my brothers and sisters, and to gather knowledge that I can pass on to others that are also interested in all forms of canopy flight. I compete to push MY OWN boundaries. If at the end of the day my efforts win me some skrilla, then that’s just icing on the cake!

Cheers!

--Jairo
(Happily accepting donations to the "Jairo needs to get his ass to Colorado for the CPC Championships" fund)

Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam!

[dploi 0]

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Jay set the world record with weight and a modded canopy(674' or something like that). How many people have come close to that on a "stock" canopy?

It's not the modded canopy that makes Jay a great swooper, it's his skill in using it.

[frost 1]

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Jay set the world record with weight and a modded canopy(674' or something like that). How many people have come close to that on a "stock" canopy?

It's not the modded canopy that makes Jay a great swooper, it's his skill in using it.

No way... really?
I guess you missed the point...

[proswooper 2]

point is... if jay put all that skill into that same awesome swoop with a comercially available canopy... would he have gone that far?

i would argue that he would probably have gone further than most but not as far.

competition results should reflect skill and performance and that canot be truly portrayed in results if the top guys are flying 'higher' performance canopies than the other people who are considered in the same 'league'.
especially when those canopies are only available to some of the people.

whether you intergrate different classes or just ban canopies that are not available to the general public something needs to be done.

if there is prize money involved and you are jumping a comercially unavailable 'on steroids' canopy and you sweep the field for years then do you really deserve the prize money?

i say a simple solution would be to ban comercially unavailable canopies due to the small number of competitors and the logistical nightmare of running three congruent classes.

[morris 0]

Proswooper, would you like to ban all unavaiable wings but allow any kind of modification you can do yourself (or have done by a rigger)? How about this "lineattachmentpoints sewed into the canopy thing"? I did this myself, is that still fine with you or unfair? I think it´s fun and part of the game to hone your canopy as much as you can. So from what point on would you be talking about an unavaiable wing? Different profil? Or already if it comes to a different line trim?

[skreamer 1]

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of course I see the window of my short competitive swooping career closing due to age,

Apologies for going way off-topic here, but why age? Guys like Kirby Chambliss (47) and Peter Besenyei (51) are still kicking ass in aerobatic planes, clearly they still have the reflexes and physical strength to perform at the highest level. Why should swooping be different? Is the youngish average age of participants not just a reflection of the fact that it is still a relatively new discipline?

I can see other factors like you mentioned (location, money) or injury, time comittments or just not being comfortable with the risk anymore causing one to stop but I've never really understood the age thing. If Peter Besenyei can still be competitive at 51 flying an aerobatic plane, why couldn't a swooper at the same age?

Like I said sorry for going waaaay off-topic here, Ian feel free to delete or split or whatever.

cheers,

Will

[proswooper 2]

if the mod can be done by a rigger then it is commercially available. that includes RDS, Trims, and anything else that is commercially available to anyone that is willing to put the effort into doing it. I think the canopy should originate from stock. i agree you should be able to hone your stock canopy. i have even seen someone cut back the stabilizers on his velo. but ultimately when the wing is as tricked out as it comes, it is still a wing that any other competitor could be jumping if he or she chose too.

[Spizzzarko 0]

Steve is already making excuses as to why he is not competing this year. Old people can still be usefull... Look at Joe Bennet! He and Jesus swooped together back in the day and he is still usefull for comedic relief. His one time out here in Colorado was pretty damn funny! I for one would like to see Steve get his geriatric ass back down to Colorado in two weeks!!!

Morris,

How difficult was it to sew your line attachement point tape back up into the canopy? That always looked to be a fairly extensive mod if you ask me. If you really get down to it I think paul is refering to modifications that would include RDS, 350 HMA, and stiching risers. These are easily purchased mods that can be done by almost anyone. As far as line trims go, I'm sure that if you and I are thinking about a different trim that the factory teams have already tried it. I talkied to Jim about this and he was saying that they go through many trim changes to find out what works and what doesn't. Sure stock trim is not going to be as aggressive in flight as other trims are but you have to take into account trim changes affect opening characteristics. It seems that the stock trim is a compromise between performance and opening. Sure could you change your trim on your canopy? Yes, but if you are cutting away in a comp more than once you get no score.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Competitive swooping is a physical sport and the 20 something year old body can recover from the constant beatings easier than the 40 something year old's body. But you're right Will. Even though I am poised to turn 44 within the next couple of months, my age isn't nearly as big of a factor as my location, my currency and the lack of funds to continue to be as current as I once was 2 summers ago. I hope to be swooping years from now and that includes some competitive swooping. I know I can still make the entry gates, I'm just not jumping enough to be good at things like freestyle (especially when I swoop over hard ground). I'm just not sure if I can be a PST competitor living up here in the frozen north.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Spizzzarko 0]

Someone has to come in last! I'm sure I have that one covered for you.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Someone has to come in last! I'm sure I have that one covered for you.

What about Billings? LOL

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Spizzzarko 0]

2nd to last for him hahahaaa

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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2nd to last for him hahahaaa

and Keith retired from the competitive swooping scene because he didn't want to embarass all the pros right. Has Aubrey been back to compete? Tolli?

now were are just getting silly and way off topic.?

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Spizzzarko 0]

Threeeeeaaaaaaaaaddddddd DDDDDDDdddrrrrrrriiiiiiffffffffttttttttt



I'm sure Keith has retired from competitive swooping. The last time I saw him jump he had a mal on his 90 velo. I think Justin or Pope got Aubrey 96. I haven't seen him in two years. I saw Jason about a month and a half ago. He is now living in Houston and hasn't jumped in a long time. I think he has taken up skeet shooting (ahhhhh skeet skeeet skeeet skeet skeet skeet skeeeeettt).

Dave and I are pretty much still the only ones from our original group competing. Aaron Oaken is starting this year, and is doing pretty well. He has just started to demo a velo and he is liking it. He pretty much has out flown that FX he has.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Threeeeeaaaaaaaaaddddddd DDDDDDDdddrrrrrrriiiiiiffffffffttttttttt

Dave and I are pretty much still the only ones from our original group competing.

I'm bored but I promise to say something related to this thread.

But first ... where are they now?

Grant: Destined to come in last at the upcoming PST event.
Dave: He'll come in 2nd to last.
Steve (me): Labelled a terrorist by Keith and was deported back to the frozen tundra of the north.
Russ: Became a tunnel rat if I am not mistaken (he had the potential to be a good PSTer).
Tolli: Last seen shooting something in Houston. LOL, isn't that the norm for TX?
Aubrey: AWOL
Pope: I guess he's back to flying camera and hooking it low digging himself out?
Jim H: Vowed to never jump at Mile-Hi again.
Eric J: Didn't he become a Dad? Or was he reclaimed by the CReW dawgs?
Keith: Retired from swooping to not embarrass all the pro swoopers who train at the new pond.

finally ... what about Ryan? did you two lovers have another spat?

Good to hear Aaron is competiting. What about Josh Evans?

Okay back on topic ...

While I respect the skill and knowledge that Paul R has, I doubt we will ever see a "ban the experimental" canopies competition for two reasons. One as someone has already pointed out, who's to prevent someone from secretly modifying their own canopy? But two, where will the innovation and evolution of canopy flight come from. No while multiple classes in a swoop comp does have some challenges, having an advanced and open class at a PST event is likely the way to go.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Spizzzarko 0]

Ryan T is doing very well and we se each other about two times a week. He is actually getting married! He found himself a good girl and is settling down. He selling his 90 velo and gear and going to upsize. He states that he just doesn't jump enough anymore to feel current on the velo. It is true as he doesn't jump much any more at all. Ohh welll.

As far as know what is stock and what is not the manufacturers can release the stock specs of their canopies but why would they want to do that. Innovation and evolution can be continued in the open class where any thing would be allowed. I don't really think having classes would be hard at all. The only thing you would have to do is run all the classes on the same courses or build events where the pond could be setup one way and you could run different events on it. The carving accuracy and zone accuracy could be setup this way. All you would have to do is narrow the drag zone for the zone acc people and widen the drag zone quadrangle thing for the PST carving accuracy. Then the entire course could be setup the same. Hell Jim doesn't even set up side markers for the entire distance course anymore, and besides distance is borring for the crowds. I personally love distance, but I have to look at it from the crowd aspect. Why would I want to see 30 people do a turn and then land really far away after they pop up a little. The crowds want CARNAGE! or the possibility of it. Free style is what they love or even the two way events.